Split Thread Signs of the End Times

[halleyscomet]

...and sexually-active men can be "virgins"...

And the genocide justifications, and the claim that black Africans should be wiped out, and...

The sad part is I'm going to have to cut most of that out of the fictional character I'm basing on him or the resulting character will simply be too over the top for the story I have planned!

 

[JayUtah]

It is your incompetence in understanding prophecy--

...says the guy whose prophecies have failed spectacularly.

Yahweh reveals himself and his plans for the Kingdom through the Scriptures—it is for me to gain an understanding of this revelation through the Scriptures, taking into account the current affairs of the world.

You don't understand the scriptures. This was shown in the Mizvot thread you are now ignoring.

You claimed earlier this year that you were infallible. Now you're claiming you need to continue to try to understand them. Which is it? Are you infallible or are you just a student?

Your understanding of the world seems polluted by sexism and racism. You respond to conflict by accusing others of corruption. You don't strike me as a person whose worldview is well grounded in fact.

You prophesied that the grass would wilt at the World Cup. I asked you what verse of scripture led you to that prophecy, and which further verse of scripture was the part you said you missed when you excused yourself for your prophecy not coming true? The sine qua non of a prophet is that his prophecies come true. Otherwise he's indistinguishable in all respects from someone merely pretending to be a prophet.

So providentially there is a necessity to wait for events to unravel. Israel as I have stated is one of these events.

I'll ask again. This is Year 5777 on the Hebrew calendar. You have told us there is some significance to that year. Specifically, at one point, you told us that the three 7s (seven is a pharisaically significant number) in a row was important and specifically that events of the end times would unfold during this year. Then you backed away from that claim. I want to know what you think is significant about 5777 as it relates to end times, so we can put this matter to rest. And it would be helpful if you produced scripture that supports whatever your claim will eventually be.

 

[Craig4]

It is your incompetence in understanding prophecy---Yahweh reveals himself and his plans for the Kingdom through the Scriptures—it is for me to gain an understanding of this revelation through the Scriptures, taking into account the current affairs of the world.
So providentially there is a necessity to wait for events to unravel. Israel as I have stated is one of these events.

If your god existed you would not be on this forum. Your god doesn't need you. Your god could, if he was real, send any message he wanted. He could do so without room for interpretation or misunderstanding. The fact that you need to send this message means your god isn't real.

 

[Paul Bethke]

If your god existed you would not be on this forum. Your god doesn't need you. Your god could, if he was real, send any message he wanted. He could do so without room for interpretation or misunderstanding. The fact that you need to send this message means your god isn't real.

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan. So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Consider this as starters---Rev_11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
As they want—or as is necessary to accomplish their purpose.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

Or it is glaringly obvious that this god was made up by people, which is why he has never appeared in person. We have to accept the word of someone like yourself that this god spoke to you, secretly and inaudibly to anyone else, and you are the special chosen snowflake who gets to pass on the message.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan. So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Well not according to the Bible. Burning bushes, writing on walls, voices from on high, not to mention a 33-year personal appearance. How come he can't just do some of that?
And 'Yahweh must wait'isn't exactly omnipotent, is it? 'Until he can find someone...' Why not just make someone? That's what he does, right? Create stuff?

Consider this as starters---Rev_11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
As they want—or as is necessary to accomplish their purpose.

Why is it always bad things?

How's that proof coming along, Paul? The 2,000-year-old proof your Bible quote said must exist. The empty graves your Bible quote say must exist. Less than a year now to save my soul. Chop chop!

 

[Craig4]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan. So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Consider this as starters---Rev_11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
As they want—or as is necessary to accomplish their purpose.

If the scriptures tell you to do this then they aren't authentic either, just made up by people like you.

 

[Border Reiver]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

If you actually read Scriptures it is glaringly obvious that Yahweh does not have to work through man. Unless of course you attribute the Flood to Bob leaving the taps running. Seriously, your belief that the all-powerful creator of the universe HAS to work and communicate through his creation only gives all the power to that creation. That's right, you've made Yahweh our bitch.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan. So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

An all powerful being, allegedly powerful enough to create the entire universe, MUST wait for that one special person to act through so that he can make his purpose known? Dude, you've just made yourself more important that your God, because without you everything Yahweh wants to do won't happen.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Funny, Yahweh was apparently able to directly talk to people in the beginning, but as soon as there's more than 2 people he gets all tongue-tied. Sounds more like these "prophets" are claiming to get messages from this Yahweh in hopes of increasing their influence over people to satisfy their own needs.

If you are the only one who is able to pass on the message then you have become the most important person in the world, and deserving of the respect and adoration of everyone alive. Quite the ego trip.

 

[Crossbow]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan. So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Consider this as starters---Rev_11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
As they want—or as is necessary to accomplish their purpose.

Just more crap.

Paul Bethke cannot even show that his God of his does indeed exist, therefore it is pointless to accept anything that he has to say about his God as being valid.

 

[JayUtah]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man.

Some "omnipotent" god you've got there. No, it's not "glaringly obvious" that god is powerless to act until some human comes along. In fact it's rather contrary to Christian theology that God is beholden to man to act on his behalf and is otherwise powerless.

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan.

No, this flies in the face of any sort of omnipotence. A god that has to wait until the right person comes along has no power that exceeds that of the man he's waiting for. The most prospective doctrine of omnipotence in Christianity states that the only thing God cannot accomplish on his own is to save an unrepentant sinner.

As has already been pointed out, it's glaringly obvious that this sort of mandatory intermediary is exactly what would be claimed by a person who wanted to claim divine right or power, but had no means of proving any sort of god existed. This is the odious means by which people excuse bigotry and other oppressive behavior. They claim it is not they who act, but their god who acts through them. It's a very transparent claim.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way.

That's the problem. It's hard to convince anyone your god exists if you insist your god can only work through fallible lackeys. That sets up a situation just like we have here: the alleged acts of god are indistinguishable from natural occurrences, and failures can be attributed to the fallibility of the servants. Occam's Razor trims god out of the picture under that set of circumstances.

Consider this as starters---Rev_11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
As they want—or as is necessary to accomplish their purpose.

No, that last part does not logically follow. Your highlighted verse describes the autonomy of the persons described. It does not establish your claim that they are necessary. Quite the contrary, it says that they are governed by their own free will and not bound to obey the god who allegedly gave them these powers. Not only have you concocted a god which has no power except what he is allowed to exercise through man, but does not even have the power to compel the intermediation he needs.

Are you claiming to be one of the two prophets in this passage? If so, I laugh. You can't even make grass wilt on command.

 

[halleyscomet]

That is something we have considered—but with a knowledge of Scripture

Something you've proven time and again you lack.

it becomes glaringly evident that Yahweh must work through man. He has to find a person that he can communicate with using the Scriptures a medium.

That's not a god, that's a ghost. Did you steal the planchette from a spirit board and slap it on a Bible?

If the message cannot be understood then Yahweh must wait until he can find someone who can fathom out the plan.

WOW. Your "god" is a piss poor communicator. Heaven forbid he try rephrasing things or providing some divine inspiration. No, your hobbled, inept excuse for a deity has to sit on his wiggling thumbs waiting for someone to wander along who can understand him. You don't worship a god, you worship the Flit King from Fallen London.

So I believe that I have grasped the means by which Yahweh will fulfil his purpose.

So God uses man to communicate with man—there is no other way. The means available to do this is astounding.

Dude, if you'd READ the Bible you'd know God is perfectly capable of sending angels to deliver messages or coming down himself to have a chat with his chosen. You've had to castrate your version of god and lock him up in solitary confinement to come up with an excuse by which you are somehow among the elect for God to chat with.

Ben Carson felt the finger of God directing him to run for President. Random loons proclaiming divine guidance are generally safe to dismiss as liars or lunatics.

God doesn't talk to you, He doesn't inspire you, He's not giving you any secrets. You're not a vessel for a divine message. If you are communicating with something supernatural it's not God, but a sad, pathetic, feeble little fraction of a sprite, desperately trying to drag some sliver of worship and power out of a sorry, shriveled, hate filled soul.

 

[Paul Bethke]

The Time is right

Sometimes people do not want to hear the truth, because they do not want their illusions destroyed.

You see that when you look around there is so much evidence to justify the Day of Judgement.
As is stated---2Peter_2:6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Jude_1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

So the reason for the Day of Judgement is sexual immorality—you can be the judge of this by looking around you and see what is meant---among the people you know, how many have a sanctified marriage!

Even Bob Dylan who they honour has been divorced twice and has married a divorced woman, the world has a warped way of honouring those that violate the marriage covenant.

Mandala has also divorced his wife and married again and divorced again—no man is great who has violated the marriage covenant.

Gay so called marriages is another example—people are forced to accept this unnatural state.

Yes the time is right for the Day of Judgement to begin—because sexual immorality is ubiquitous!

 

[halleyscomet]

Sometimes people do not want to hear the truth, because they do not want their illusions destroyed.

And sometimes people pompously declare their personal opinions to be an objective "truth" and strut around like a peacock on Viagra insisting they're right and everyone else is wrong, and their only argument to support their balderdash is, "Because JESUS!"

Like Rev. Manning.



Of course Manning as a far deeper understanding of the Bible than you do, but you're both racists who think blacks should be subservient to whites, so the two of you have that in common.

 

[JayUtah]

Sometimes people do not want to hear the truth, because they do not want their illusions destroyed.

That cuts both ways. Sometimes people do not want to hear that they have misread or misunderstood their holy books because it means it does not excuse or justify behavior they want to continue in, such as the use of civil authority to oppress and mistreat people who are not of their faith. Sometimes people do not want to hear that they are not prophets of their god because it means they have to be content as ordinary humans.

You see that when you look around there is so much evidence to justify the Day of Judgement.

Christians have spent 2,000 years fretting over this or that thing that frightens them about the world around them. They've been pointing to "signs of the end times" since the beginning times. No one is interested in your recitation of moralistic boogey-men. You may be terrified of modern society, but that's your problem. Don't pretend everyone else should be.

I'm still waiting for your answers. You said Year 5777 was significant with respect to the end times. In exactly what way?

You excused your own failed prophecies (e.g., the wilted grass) by saying you had neglected some important factors from scripture. First, I want to know how you reconcile that with your claim to be infallible. Next I want to know which verses of scripture you think you should have considered when predicting grass wilting.

Any idea when you'll be taking care of those outstanding questions?

Gay so called marriages is another example—people are forced to accept this unnatural state.

Because rivers turning to blood, people rising from the dead, and prophets calling down fire from heaven at will are so "natural." You can either argue nature or argue the Bible. They aren't equivalent standards of acceptance. Homosexuality, as a matter of fact, is a part of nature whether you like it or not.

Can you cite a single Christian who has been forced against his will into a marriage with someone of the same sex? No? Of course not. Then no one is being "forced" to do anything. And lets not get into all the nonsensical stuff the Bible says about marriage, that is no longer practiced today, and all the ways in which "traditional" marriage has been refined over the years to separate civil states of marriage from inappropriate religious interference. I would cite the decisions allowing the previously "unnatural" state of mixed-race marriage, but then I remembered how racist you are. That argument won't work.

 

[Crossbow]

Sometimes people do not want to hear the truth, because they do not want their illusions destroyed.

You see that when you look around there is so much evidence to justify the Day of Judgement.
As is stated---2Peter_2:6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Jude_1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

So the reason for the Day of Judgement is sexual immorality—you can be the judge of this by looking around you and see what is meant---among the people you know, how many have a sanctified marriage!

Even Bob Dylan who they honour has been divorced twice and has married a divorced woman, the world has a warped way of honouring those that violate the marriage covenant.

Mandala has also divorced his wife and married again and divorced again—no man is great who has violated the marriage covenant.

Gay so called marriages is another example—people are forced to accept this unnatural state.

Yes the time is right for the Day of Judgement to begin—because sexual immorality is ubiquitous!

What a load of crap.

Since you cannot even show the existence of your God and since you have clearly shown that you are not an agent of God, then your various God musings are not worth the paper that they are written on.

 

[abaddon]

Sometimes people do not want to hear the truth, because they do not want their illusions destroyed.

Just like you do.

You see that when you look around there is so much evidence to justify the Day of Judgement.

Do you? Let's see what evidence you have then.

As is stated---2Peter_2:6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

That is firstly a citation from a fictional work and second, is not even eyewitness testimony.

Jude_1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Sexual perversion? Lot was the righteous man god saved who offered up his daughters for rape voluntarily, the same Lot who engaged in incest with those same daughters? That is the kind of pervert your god considered righteous? Really?

And Sodom and Gommorah have no actual evidence anyway.

So the reason for the Day of Judgement is sexual immorality—

Like Lot.

you can be the judge of this by looking around you and see what is meant---among the people you know, how many have a sanctified marriage!

Even Bob Dylan who they honour has been divorced twice and has married a divorced woman, the world has a warped way of honouring those that violate the marriage covenant.

Your bible god favours not only divorce, but polygamy, incest and rape also. You god is therefore a sexual deviant by your own judgement.

Mandala has also divorced his wife and married again and divorced again—no man is great who has violated the marriage covenant.

Your bible god favours not only divorce, but polygamy, incest and rape also. You god is therefore a sexual deviant by your own judgement. And the man's name is Mandela. A mandala is a very different thing.

Gay so called marriages is another example—people are forced to accept this unnatural state.

Nobody is being forced to engage in gay marriage, nor is anyone being forced to perform it. It is simply being made available to those who seek it on an equal basis.

Yes the time is right for the Day of Judgement to begin—because sexual immorality is ubiquitous!

That is your hang-up and it is peculiar to you.

 

[Paul Bethke]

That cuts both ways. Sometimes people do not want to hear that they have misread or misunderstood their holy books because it means it does not excuse or justify behavior they want to continue in, such as the use of civil authority to oppress and mistreat people who are not of their faith. Sometimes people do not want to hear that they are not prophets of their god because it means they have to be content as ordinary humans.

I do not know what you are inferring to as I cannot associate any of it with myself or any other true believer!

Christians have spent 2,000 years fretting over this or that thing that frightens them about the world around them. They've been pointing to "signs of the end times" since the beginning times. No one is interested in your recitation of moralistic boogey-men. You may be terrified of modern society, but that's your problem. Don't pretend everyone else should be.

Again I do not see the reference to myself.

I'm still waiting for your answers. You said Year 5777 was significant with respect to the end times. In exactly what way?

The significance is not so much in the number 5777—but in the condition of the world in regards to the days of Noah when Elohim destroyed the people because of their behaviour. Sexual immorality was rife then as it is rife now—God cannot overlook the present day sin and not act as he has in the past!

You excused your own failed prophecies (e.g., the wilted grass) by saying you had neglected some important factors from scripture. First, I want to know how you reconcile that with your claim to be infallible. Next I want to know which verses of scripture you think you should have considered when predicting grass wilting.

The withering grass prediction was premature to the plan of God, although it will be a good way to show people that they cannot take their plans for granted. It is to show that man must respect the Sabbath.—The idea of the withered grass stems from a parallel with the withering of the fig tree which Jesus used to demonstrate his reflection of the nation of Israel.

Any idea when you'll be taking care of those outstanding questions?

???>

Because rivers turning to blood, people rising from the dead, and prophets calling down fire from heaven at will are so "natural." You can either argue nature or argue the Bible. They aren't equivalent standards of acceptance. Homosexuality, as a matter of fact, is a part of nature whether you like it or not.

Homosexuality is regarded by the Creator as detestable---►Le 20:13 ”‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (synonyms: abhorrent, detested, hateful, hated, loathsome, loathed, despicable, despised,abominable, abominated, execrable, execrated, repellent, repugnant, repulsive, revolting,disgusting, distasteful, horrible, horrid, horrifying, awful, heinous, reprehensible,obnoxious, odious, nauseating, offensive, contemptible"such behaviour is detestable and despicable")
So as stated God will destroy those who do these things, whether they like it or not.

Can you cite a single Christian who has been forced against his will into a marriage with someone of the same sex? No? Of course not. Then no one is being "forced" to do anything. And lets not get into all the nonsensical stuff the Bible says about marriage, that is no longer practiced today, and all the ways in which "traditional" marriage has been refined over the years to separate civil states of marriage from inappropriate religious interference. I would cite the decisions allowing the previously "unnatural" state of mixed-race marriage, but then I remembered how racist you are. That argument won't work.

The creator has ordained what marriage is—so any one who violates this covenant will be guilty of adultery, there is no new acceptance for marriage, other than what the Creator has decreed. This is the prime reason for the coming judgement on the people of this world--- whether you like it or not.

It is good that you remember

 

[Craig4]

Your creator fellow can have his definition and ideas about marriage and sexual morality just like anyone else I suppose. He should learn his place though about imposing those views on other people.

 

[Paul Bethke]

What a load of crap.

Since you cannot even show the existence of your God and since you have clearly shown that you are not an agent of God, then your various God musings are not worth the paper that they are written on.

Yes you are correct in that—but that is not the end of it—a new revelation has given me a clearer picture of the whole situation, not that my past understanding was incorrect, rather that the judgement of the Creator is going to be far more terrifying than I imagined.

To establish the Kingdom of God in this hostile world will require a greater amount of force than previously envisaged----Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron sceptre." He treads the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

So this is not a picture of docility.

 

[Thor 2]

Yes you are correct in that—but that is not the end of it—a new revelation has given me a clearer picture of the whole situation, not that my past understanding was incorrect, rather that the judgement of the Creator is going to be far more terrifying than I imagined.

To establish the Kingdom of God in this hostile world will require a greater amount of force than previously envisaged----Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron sceptre." He treads the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

So this is not a picture of docility.

Oh Christ I am shaking in my boots. Save me oh lord miserable sinner that I am.

Interesting that the best weapon he can find is a sharp sword. Doesn't he have access to nukes?

 

[Craig4]

Yes you are correct in that—but that is not the end of it—a new revelation has given me a clearer picture of the whole situation,

You and every other doomsday prophet. None of them have been right either.