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Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VI

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Meadmaker said:
Now, given that we found that offensive, how do you think we would see Trump and the way he talked?
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None the different. I'll make things even simpler. If the lewd conduct is the straw that breaks the camels back over his appeal. Then people have every right not to vote for Trump. I'm fully accepting of the fact that this issue is obviously only one of many things people take issue with Trump on. And I find Trumps' behavior to be sleazy especially in this context. I think we would be in agreement that his behavior was completely unacceptable irrespective of the comparisons made to Bill Clinton. No amount of comparison to another persons actions will make what Trump said acceptable. It is an indicator of character that people supporting him inevitably have to live with if they plan to support him as has to happen with any of the choices we have this cycle
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
Judging by your portrayal im not even sure youve seen the transcripts of that interview for one. He certainly sounded like a crazed horn dog but thats about all the transcripts show.

And two... my criticism is that people didnt give a crap about clinton back then... and suddenly a mans' dirty talk is a problem now.
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You seem to have sidestepped the issue here, which is the difference between a legal act and an illegal one.

I really dont know what to tell you... i have nothing good to say for Trump on this matter other than people seem to enjoy reasoning it as a disqualifier after having no qualms about lewd comments or behavior in the past. It doesnt get any simpler than that. You got other reasons to despise the man.
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I don't despise him.

Your ability to interpret things that people say is in question here.
 
JPK said:
Good morning. While that this pussy grabbing moment is interesting and all, I find it kinda sad that thisis the thing that seems to have upset most people. In my messed up head, I might advise Trump campaign to release this story on purpose to distract from his "double down" on the Central Park Five comments he just released, or any of the other asinine things has as sad, done or proposed. The list of "deplorable" things Trump has put forth is Yuuugggge.
Is there anyone from NY or NJ who have watched this guy for decades that supports this guy? Growing up in NJ, this buffoon is a joke. Always has been. I suspect that the majority of supporters across the country know him from his reality show.
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I think Donald Trump should have been disqualified as a possible Presidential candidate before he ever started his campaign. I do agree it's absurd that it took this to take him down. I wish it had been something else. Still, I'll take it...because the creep is going down.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Judging by your portrayal im not even sure youve seen the transcripts of that interview for one. He certainly sounded like a crazed horn dog but thats about all the transcripts show.

And two... my criticism is that people didnt give a crap about clinton back then... and suddenly a mans' dirty talk is a problem now.

I really dont know what to tell you... i have nothing good to say for Trump on this matter other than people seem to enjoy reasoning it as a disqualifier after having no qualms about lewd comments or behavior in the past. It doesnt get any simpler than that. You got other reasons to despise the man.
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It seems to me that those who view this as a disqualifier are largely on the Republican side of the debate. I think that most who were opposed to Trump prior to this tape already had their reasons. I don't know how many are arguing that this tape is, by itself, reason enough to disqualify him (aside from Republican defectors).

It's hard for me to say whether this tape is reason enough to reject Trump. I have so many prior reasons that it's hard to imagine a clean slate and see what my opinion would be. The tape is damning, no doubt. Is it reason enough to conclude that the man is not competent as president? Surely, that depends in part on the alternatives. Many Trump supporters think that Hillary is close to the worst possible alternative, so I can imagine them not being persuaded by this latest scandal.

I'll ask again. You show me my hypocrisy here. I don't see it.
 
phiwum said:
It seems to me that those who view this as a disqualifier are largely on the Republican side of the debate. I think that most who were opposed to Trump prior to this tape already had their reasons. I don't know how many are arguing that this tape is, by itself, reason enough to disqualify him (aside from Republican defectors).

It's hard for me to say whether this tape is reason enough to reject Trump. I have so many prior reasons that it's hard to imagine a clean slate and see what my opinion would be. The tape is damning, no doubt. Is it reason enough to conclude that the man is not competent as president? Surely, that depends in part on the alternatives. Many Trump supporters think that Hillary is close to the worst possible alternative, so I can imagine them not being persuaded by this latest scandal.
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Reasonable.

phiwum said:
I'll ask again. You show me my hypocrisy here. I don't see it.
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But what have i not been clear on? Ive explained that the issue deals with essentially party loyalty impairing judgement of moral standards... despite these scandals clinton and trump will carry the majority of their respective bases that participate. The nature of criticisms being levied reflects a very similar attitude.
 
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marplots said:
I'm too liberal for the room. I support sex workers. I believe women own their bodies and can damn well do what they like with them. And if men are willing to pay for those services it's none of my business what they get up to.
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That has nothing whatever to do with Trump's approach to women.
... just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait....​
If you "just kiss and don't wait" what does it matter whether the woman in question is a sex worker or a cloistered nun? it's still a violation of her right to do what she sees fit with her own person, that you say you as a liberal are concerned to uphold.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Reasonable.


But what have i not been clear on? Ive explained that the issue deals with essentially party loyalty impairing judgement of moral standards... despite these scandals clinton and trump will carry the majority of their respective bases that participate. The nature of criticisms being levied reflects a very similar attitude.
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You've not yet answered my question about whether you view my position as hypocritical.

Here's my position in a nutshell.

(1) Clinton's affair (dalliance?) with Lewinsky is not sufficient grounds to remove a sitting president.

(2) Clinton's perjury might be sufficient, but reasonable persons can disagree.

(3) Trump's comments are relevant to whether he ought to be elected.

(4) Were Trump president prior to this videotape being made public, I would not support impeachment on these grounds.

Are these perfectly consistent opinions, or have I the whiff of hypocrisy? I must know, since the local Rite-Aid has a sale on Axe body spray. Much thanks.
 
phiwum said:
You've not yet answered my question about whether you view my position as hypocritical.

Here's my position in a nutshell.

(1) Clinton's affair (dalliance?) with Lewinsky is not sufficient grounds to remove a sitting president.

(2) Clinton's perjury might be sufficient, but reasonable persons can disagree.

(3) Trump's comments are relevant to whether he ought to be elected.

(4) Were Trump president prior to this videotape being made public, I would not support impeachment on these grounds.

Are these perfectly consistent opinions, or have I the whiff of hypocrisy? I must know, since the local Rite-Aid has a sale on Axe body spray. Much thanks.
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I dont think your position as explained is hypocritical. At least you're willing to outline it so that there's no confusion on it. And i dont think your line of thought is on the same wavelength as mine. Care has to be taken in a comparison between trump and clinton because one has yet to be voted on while the other was sitting in office. You have a difference between choosing to elect vs choosing to remove... as well as a choice between criticizing the morality of their behavior. Im dealing mostly with the latter: how most are trying to dispell comparisons that are relevant to the behavior deemed acceptable or not.

Most people rightly criticize Trump. On the other hand... my point was that this behavior is treated as if its not a big deal in using character as a measure for electability when committed by a candidate or sitting official that they otherwise support.

Whether or not clinton should have been removed from office based solely on the gounds of his infidelity is quite a separate argument really not what what I was getting at. The only way that particular issue would have warranted such a thing is if other accusations had followed through but that expands into other issues that but essentially deviate from the thread more than necessary
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
Most people rightly criticize Trump. On the other hand... my point was that this behavior is treated as if its not a big deal in using character as a measure for electability when committed by a candidate or sitting official that they otherwise support.
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(Highlighting mine)

Because Bill Clinton's affairs and Trump's groping are different behaviors. Both can be called "lewd" but only one can be called "assault". It is the "assault" part that is the most concerning.
 
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Maine Gov. Paul LePage stood by Donald Trump in a radio interview on Tuesday, saying that the United States might need someone like the GOP nominee to show "authoritarian power," and dismissing concerns over an audiotape leaked last week that showed Trump describing how he forces himself upon women.

"Sometimes, I wonder that our Constitution is not only broken, but we need a Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law because we've had eight years of a president, he's an autocrat, he just does it on his own, he ignores Congress and every single day, we're slipping into anarchy," LePage said on Maine radio station WVOM.
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The Republican party is so broken. Someone there needs to grow a set and draw a line to try and salvage any remnants of it once was. They would need to turn back the clock quite a bit to make that work because the past 20 years or so created the Trumpanstein they have now. The Constitution is broken???? Fool. This general election is all but lost already. Anyone still keeping a foot n the Trump grave will be going down with the ship
 
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