And yet Trump left off the, 'I was lying about my conquests', part of the locker room talk.
And if that were true, it would make him 58 going on 12.
Bantering with the younger Billy Bush. Older guys do that. Braggadocio.
I heard Billy got fired.
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Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VI
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Bantering with the younger Billy Bush. Older guys do that. Braggadocio.
I heard Billy got fired.
Maybe it was just banter. And maybe not.
acbytesla
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I don't know any that do. Billy was suspended
acbytesla
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And I really hated what he did. Not so much his laughing,...although that was horrible. No, it was his being Trump's hug pimp moments later.
Could be, I guess. Ten years ago Trump brags to Billy about events that happened ten years before that.
I listen to Howard Stern. None of this shocks me.
Show biz. You got this powerful guy and you want to impress him. Bad time to stand on principle.
acbytesla
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No, it's not. It's never a bad time. Who were you raised by?
Also Billy Bush's career had little to do with Donald Trump. Trump just made jokes about sexually assaulting women and Billy turns into Trump's wingman? Give me a break.
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Let's see if I have it right. Under your conception, the "man talk" here is not only rare (outside of your experience), but objectively beyond the pale, bordering on criminal? (I am not attempting to construct a straw man, I'm attempting to restate your position.)
Let's consider where this leads. One immediate surprise is that two rare trash-talkers should happen upon each other. A second surprise is they would be willing to talk about criminal matters, having only just met.
It's about here that my inner skeptic starts to think the presuppositions are wrong.
ETA: Almost forgot the rhetorical question. I was raised in what we call a "blue collar" family. Hope that helps.
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acbytesla
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I really didn't understand that. Look. I've known guys like Donald Trump, but their behavior has never been acceptable around me. But there are very few of them. What I saw in that vIdeo was two guys incredibly insecure with no morals trying to impress each other. I saw that "hug request as an inside joke between the two" given that it was moments after what Trump said. I might understand to a degree Billy laughing at Trump's inappropriate remarks, but the hug thing was Billy Bush being a sycophantic enabler. It basically said more than a laugh trying to avoid a year akwardness. No, it said to me he approved of Trump's actions and wanted some of the same.
Foolmewunz
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The problem with taking a Devil's Advocate position is that you actually have to have thought it through. "A couple of guys talking" is not a panacea for what they were bull ******** about. If they were lying through their teeth and talking about raping nuns or lynching black people, the question that arises in the minds of most people is WHY DO THEY FIND THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT MATTER MERITS BRAGGING ABOUT?
He THINKS that being a big man is abusing his position and taking advantage of women because he can get away with it due to being famous.
George Wallace was a fraud. He was not a bigot, but famously pledged to never make the mistake of getting "out n-worded again" and turned into a bigot for political purposes. Do I give a rat's ass? His idea of how to impress people and get their approval(in his case, votes) was to be a bigot. If Trump or anyone thinks that it's lock-room-bragging and impressive that he's an abuser, that says as much as whether the actual cases come forward.
Personally, I think there will be testimonials. First half-dozen or so might look dubious, kinda like the Cosby accusations. But as more and more come forward, we'll find out if this was a fifty-nine year old teenager doing a rendition of "Summer Nights" for da boyz, or if it was Trump True Confessions.
But it doesn't matter. The give-away is that he said it all, considering the locale and the timing.
You have no idea if he was referring to an incident ten years before, ten days before, or a myriad of different incidents.
Well good for you. I find this persuasive more or less on the level of a randomly generated sentence (think applecorped).
phiwum
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If I may respond, as one who considers himself non-partisan.
Clinton's interactions with Lewinsky were unseemly, but I don't regard that as reason enough to remove him from office.
His perjury was worse. I'm not sure whether removal would have been appropriate and decent folk might disagree on that.
Trump bragged about sexual assault. Were he in office, I don't think that impeachment and removal would be appropriate (without very compelling evidence of sexual assault). But, of course, he's not in office. He's running for office. I think this incident is somewhat relevant.
To be sure, I think there are rather a lot of better reasons not to vote Trump than this. I'd rather that his campaign was sunk on something more about principle rather than personal reasons (though many would balk about my claim that this isn't principle). But, sure, I can see a wholly decent man saying, "Clinton did not deserve to be removed from office due to an affair with an intern, and not even because he perjured himself, but I think one shouldn't vote for Trump, since Trump brags about sexual assault."
I see no hypocrisy there, and so I think your argument is not compelling.
Skeptic Ginger
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You ignored the key point in my post. Trump did not admit he was BSing. Not to mention there's plenty of corroborating evidence he does act the way he bragged he did.
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Because they are products of evolution. Breeding success demonstrates worth.
You are framing it as abusing his position whereas he might see it as the just reward for having the position. We may disagree on what makes some men more attractive to women, but celebrity, wealth and power are probably up there. Didn't someone remark about power being an aphrodisiac?
Maybe women aren't throwing their panties up on stage anymore. Maybe they aren't hanging around dressing rooms or asking to come up after the show. I don't know if they are, but Trump's old enough to remember Elvis and the Beatles. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he got some of that same treatment back in the day.
We can probably agree that Trump is ostentatious. He brags about his money, his lifestyle (top quality, top!), and his sexual conquests. The surprise to me is that anyone is surprised by it.
No one has to like it. No one has to participate in it. But for goodness sake, let's not pretend this isn't as common as dirt. It's offensive to some. SJW is a thing, after all. But he's not grabbing Billy's pussy. He's free to say whatever he likes, distasteful as it may be.
Cue Roger Ailes for another rich and powerful man of the same generation.
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Are we objecting to actual behavior or talking about it? Very different animals.
I was responding to a link to an incident alleged to have happened in 1994 (or 97, I forget). Alleged.
I offered up the Howard Stern show as an example of locker room talk. It was available over the public airwaves for quite awhile. This is not something Trump invented and I daresay he isn't even very good at it.
Am I the only one mature enough to have read 50 Shades? Am I the only one who went to a coed high school? Did sexual attraction die out at the turn of the millennium? There's still no excuse - read some of the comments in any SJW twitter dispute, you'll find much much worse.
The locker rooms may have changed to facebook, twitter and youtube, but the same terms are being used every day.
Skeptic Ginger
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Are you objecting to asserted behavior that cannot be corroborated and not actually admitted behavior? Different animals indeed.
I'm talking about an old dude bragging (talking ****) to a younger dude on a bus. I didn't understand it to be a confession of a crime.
I went back and reread some of the transcript. I think the term "sexual assault" is being thrown around rather loosely in this thread. Here's the juicy part, and I've highlighted something that might have escaped notice...
Shortly before meeting Zucker, he says, "I better use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
"Whatever you want," Bush says.
"Grab 'em by the pussy, you can do anything," Trump replies, before the two men start talking about Zucker's legs.
The difference between sexual assault and good clean fun is the critical, "they let you do it." Presumably these are adult women in their right minds. We don't need to make willing participation illegal or immoral, do we? I know this country was founded by puritans, but that was a couple hundred years ago. Sex is out of the closet now.
Shortly before meeting Zucker, he says, "I better use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
"Whatever you want," Bush says.
"Grab 'em by the pussy, you can do anything," Trump replies, before the two men start talking about Zucker's legs.
The difference between sexual assault and good clean fun is the critical, "they let you do it." Presumably these are adult women in their right minds. We don't need to make willing participation illegal or immoral, do we? I know this country was founded by puritans, but that was a couple hundred years ago. Sex is out of the closet now.
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It depends entirely on whether he is in a position of power over the women.
Oh look. He was
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