Proof of Immortality, the IV league

[JayUtah]

What happens to the flashing neon sign that says
"cold"......."beer"........."cold beer"......."cold"......

Well, I know what would happen to the beer.

 

[jond]

What happens to the screen saver animation when you unplug the computer.

What happens to the breeze when you turn off a fan.

What happens to the flashing neon sign that says
"cold"......."beer"........."cold beer"......."cold"......

Mm. Beer...

 

[Mojo]

What happens to the screen saver animation when you unplug the computer.

What happens to the breeze when you turn off a fan.

What happens to the flashing neon sign that says
"cold"......."beer"........."cold beer"......."cold"......

Well, I know what would happen to the beer.

Mm. Beer...

Now I have to go to the fridge, damn you!

 

[Hokulele]

If you have two beers, isn't that having the same beer twice? From that, I can conclude that six packs are impossible, and each time you reach into the fridge, a beer just appears out of nothing. You see, a fridge is just a receiver for beer, so beer is immortal.

So there.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you have two beers, isn't that having the same beer twice? From that, I can conclude that six packs are impossible, and each time you reach into the fridge, a beer just appears out of nothing. You see, a fridge is just a receiver for beer, so beer is immortal.

So there.

Are you saying there's a pool of beer? Where?

Dave

 

[Hokulele]

Are you saying there's a pool of beer? Where?

Dave

No, no. It is a pool of potential beer.

Which is probably the most disappointing sentence I have ever typed.

 

[HighRiser]

No, no. It is a pool of potential beer.

Which is probably the most disappointing sentence I have ever typed.

I'll say.

 

[The Sparrow]

The potential beer is the beer at the factory in the big vat (potential souls waiting for a body). the beer can is the body. So when the beer goes into the beer can, that's like being born. When you pee out the beer after, that's dying, the beer will be recycled (somehow) into another beer-soul just waiting for the can,
but.....
ITS THE SAME BEER!!!!!!!

 

[MRC_Hans]

The potential beer is the beer at the factory in the big vat (potential souls waiting for a body). the beer can is the body. So when the beer goes into the beer can, that's like being born. When you pee out the beer after, that's dying, the beer will be recycled (somehow) into another beer-soul just waiting for the can,
but.....
ITS THE SAME BEER!!!!!!!

I assume you are referring to Budweiser, here....
Hans

 

[wollery]

I assume you are referring to Budweiser, here....

Hans

Clearly not, he said "beer".

 

[Jabba]

Dave,
- No problem. According to modern science, whatever this thing is, it never existed before, it will never exist again and didn't have to exist in the first place.

Exactly like your physical brain.

Dave,
- In that respect, yes. There are, however, other respects.

My claim is that such leads to the conclusion that there is no pool of potential selves, that I came from nowhere and that there is no limit on the number of selves possible.

Did your brain come from nowhere?

- No. But my brain is not an emergent property.

 

[Jabba]

Dave,
- No problem. According to modern science, whatever this thing is, it never existed before, it will never exist again and didn't have to exist in the first place. My claim is that such leads to the conclusion that there is no pool of potential selves, that I came from nowhere and that there is no limit on the number of selves possible.

It's not a thing, it's a process that results from a thing working. When the thing stops working, the process stops. What happens to the running when the car's engine blows a gasket?

jond,
- The same thing that happens when you turn your radio off.

 

[godless dave]

Dave,
- In that respect, yes. There are, however, other respects.

What respects would those be?

- No. But my brain is not an emergent property.

Why would that make a difference?

 

[JayUtah]

In that respect, yes. There are, however, other respects.

There aren't until you prove there are. That's the whole point of this exercise. You say you think you can prove immortality mathematically. You vest the power of immortality in an immortal soul. None of that exists until you prove it does. Got it? There is a parsimonious explanation for the self in science. That explanation fits all the available facts. You can't do any better.

But my brain is not an emergent property.

Remember all the time people spent trying to teach you what an emergent property is? Why have you suddenly forgotten? Do you have a problem retaining information?

 

[JayUtah]

The same thing that happens when you turn your radio off.

Okay let's use that analogy. Audible programming is an emergent property of the combination of suitably organized radio waves and a functioning radio. What happens to the program if any part of that system ceases?

 

[Belz...]

In that respect, yes. There are, however, other respects.

What are these other aspects?

But my brain is not an emergent property.

Well, in a way it is, but we're talking about consciousness, not the brain that produces it.

 

[jond]

jond,
- The same thing that happens when you turn your radio off.

No, not the same. Are you suggesting running exists separately from the engine? Remember, you already agreed that the radio analogy for consciousness is totally flawed. Hint: Capgras.

 

[The Sparrow]

No, not the same. Are you suggesting running exists separately from the engine? Remember, you already agreed that the radio analogy for consciousness is totally flawed. Hint: Capgras.

Not to mention, several different radios can pick up the SAME signal and convert it to audio.

 

[JayUtah]

Not to mention, several different radios can pick up the SAME signal and convert it to audio.

Indeed, which is why I listed audible programming as the emergent property of the combination of coherent radio waves and a working receiver. Neither the radio waves alone nor the radio alone results in audible programming. The waves and the apparatus work in concert and the result is an audible ... well, concert. That's the key concept of emergence -- it is a property of the whole that cannot be vested in any one component.

A working brain is composed of cells of different types. The properties of thought and consciousness are not exhibited by the individual cells; they emerge from the entire assembly working together.

 

[JesseCuster]

jond,
- The same thing that happens when you turn your radio off.

That's a terrible analogy. The analogy that's used with brains and radios is that the radio or brain tunes into and picks up a signal/consciousness (or soul or whatever).

To say that the same thing happens to the running of an engine when it blows a gasket as happens when a radio is switched off, would mean that "running" is some thing that is independent of an engine that it picks up or tunes into and that continues to exist when the engine breaks down or is destroyed.

Do you really believe that the same thing happens to the running of an engine when it breaks down or is switched off as happens to a radio signal when a radio is switched off?