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Presidential Debates

That's only part of the quote though, that's the issue. The entire thing is...

Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

So whether it's coal country or Indian country or poor urban areas, there is a lot of poverty in America. We have gone backwards. We were moving in the right direction. In the '90s, more people were lifted out of poverty than any time in recent history.

Because of the terrible economic policies of the Bush administration, President Obama was left with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and people fell back into poverty because they lost jobs, they lost homes, they lost opportunities, and hope.

So I am passionate about this, which is why I have put forward specific plans about how we incentivize more jobs, more investment in poor communities, and put people to work.


It's quite clear that the 'we' in context is society as a whole as it moves towards cleaner energy. And she's right. As we move to renewables, we are going to put a lot of coal miners out of work and destroy a lot of companies. The major Government owned Coal company here in NZ, Solid Energy went belly up last year, and that had nothing to do with Clinton or the Democrats, it had to do with International prices as the demand for coal plummets. US mining companies are under the same pressures.

At worst you can say she wasn't clear enough in the answer, but the Republicans took that one sentence out of the entire answer and wrote it up as if she personally planned to destroy the coal industry. That was totally untrue.

It doesn't matter that she tried to sugarcoat the natural result of her economic policies by showing sympathy to the people of coal country and making some vague promises to take care of them. The simple fact is that coal country has zero comparative advantage in producing renewable energy. Moving away from coal will hurt these people, and no promises from the government that they'll be given rewarding, good-paying jobs can reasonably be taken seriously. Hillary clearly plans to continue the move away from coal, faster and more decisively than any Republican candidate would. It is perfectly reasonable, and fair, to conclude that her election will have a significant negative economic impact on coal miners and the coal mining community.

ETA: Coal companies aren't under pressure from renewable energy technology, by the way. Not yet, at any rate, and probably not for a long time. They're under pressure from advances in fracking technology. The increase in supply of natural gas and crude oil is what has put pressure on coal prices, not solar or wind.
 
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From the Hillary thread - moved here so as not to derail....

False. It is a simple disagreement. I believe (as do tens of millions of other citizens) that Trump is not, in any way, a threat to this country. If you have a disagreement with that belief, that's fine. But it's also simple.

He'll say something tonight that will inflame both ISIS and homegrown jihadi supporters.

People will die in this country before the year is out, and comments he makes tonite will be the reason why.
 
"Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on."

Seriously, what an evil bitch, right?
 
....and no promises from the government that they'll be given rewarding, good-paying jobs can reasonably be taken seriously.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If Clinton's claim that the government will create good-paying jobs cannot reasonably be taken seriously, then Trump's claim that the government will create good-paying jobs cannot reasonably be taken seriously either (e.g. "I am going to bring back one million jobs from China").
 
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From the Hillary thread - moved here so as not to derail....



He'll say something tonight that will inflame both ISIS and homegrown jihadi supporters.

Inflame? These people are already trying their best to kill Americans all the time. It reminds me of when Israel turned Sheik Yassin into a puddle of goo. People around me were going "Ooh, Israel's really done it now. There's going to be a bloodbath." And I said "What is Hamas going to do? Ratchet the terrorism up to 11? They're already at 10, and that's as high as the dial goes." Actually, I didn't really say that, but I wished I had. I said something like it though.

People will die in this country before the year is out, and comments he makes tonite will be the reason why.

I think people will die in this country because of Obama's passive and naive foreign policy instincts. Does that mean I'm justified in wishing for his death? I could be wrong after all (although I'm not).
 
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If Clinton's claim that the government will create good-paying jobs cannot reasonably be taken seriously, then Trump's claim that the government will create good-paying jobs cannot reasonably be taken seriously either (e.g. "I am going to bring back one million jobs from China").

Of course not. Trump's promises are empty. But he still represents a change of course, and the people who are unhappy with the current course (whether their unhappiness is rational or not) are justified in supporting him for it.
 
Regardless of the details of the debate, I think it is telling that it will be immediately followed on Fox by a new episode of Gotham: "Mad City: Burn the Witch."
 
ETA: Coal companies aren't under pressure from renewable energy technology, by the way. Not yet, at any rate, and probably not for a long time. They're under pressure from advances in fracking technology. The increase in supply of natural gas and crude oil is what has put pressure on coal prices, not solar or wind.


In other words, the loss of coal jobs has nothing to do with Hillary or her policies.

Steve S
 
Inflame? These people are already trying their best to kill Americans all the time. It reminds me of when Israel turned Sheik Yassin into a puddle of goo. People around me were going "Ooh, Israel's really done it now. There's going to be a bloodbath." And I said "What is Hamas going to do? Ratchet the terrorism up to 11? They're already at 10, and that's as high as the dial goes." Actually, I didn't really say that, but I wished I had. I said something like it though.

By all means, lets keep that circle going!



I think people will die in this country because of Obama's passive and naive foreign policy instincts. Does that mean I'm justified in wishing for his death? I could be wrong after all (although I'm not).

Maybe you could tell the class what he could have done different. 9/11 didn't happen on the watch of a passive foreign policy administration.
 
My plans for the debate tonight:
Plan A: Convince my wife to watch the Mariners game instead.
Plan B: Be in the other room in front of the computer, reading naval history or some such, with headphones on and the volume turned up.

It's not like we won't be seeing the "interesting" moments over and over for weeks to come.
 
Of course not. Trump's promises are empty. But he still represents a change of course, and the people who are unhappy with the current course (whether their unhappiness is rational or not) are justified in supporting him for it.

We know there will be change and we hope it is good. Because there is no real way to know what the **** he will actually do until Putin tells him.

Trump/Putin
Hope & Change
2016
 
The concept that Trump is the biggest liar in the known universe has been challenged in various threads. This is good opportunity to keep a tally of blatant lies told by both candidates. I bet Trump prevails.
 
The concept that Trump is the biggest liar in the known universe has been challenged in various threads. This is good opportunity to keep a tally of blatant lies told by both candidates. I bet Trump prevails.

Reliable Sources played a clip of Trump saying Lester Holt is a Democrat, going on to say they're all Democrats - speaking of the moderators.

It was pointed out that Holt is a registered Republican.

Just another example of Trump making things up as he goes along.
 
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Predictions, for which I'll claim Randi's million if they are all correct:
1. Trump will win. According to him, and his supporters.
2. Hillary will win, according to her supporters, but she won't say so herself in so many words.
3. Trump will post a tweet whining about unfairness within the first hour after the event. He'll probably whine about that during the event as well.
4. Hillary won't have a die on stage or have a major health crisis. That won't stop Trump's supporters from saying she did.
5. Both candidates will fail some fact-checking but Trump will win the "Pants on Fire" contest by about four to one.
 
Reliable Sources played a clip of Trump saying Lester Holt is a Democrat, going on to say they're all Democrats - speaking of the moderators.

It was pointed out that Holt is a registered Republican.

Just another example of Trump making things up as he goes along.

And Kelly Crowe says it wasn't actually a lie, because he didn't know it to be false. He just made it up out of thin air, but don't call it a lie.
 
Of course not. Trump's promises are empty. But he still represents a change of course, and the people who are unhappy with the current course (whether their unhappiness is rational or not) are justified in supporting him for it.

If you are correct and that Trump has been making empty promises for the last several months, then Trump is a total liar who deserves to lose the election.

If you are incorrect that Trump has been making non-empty promises for the last several months, then Trump is a total nut-job who deserves to lose the election.
 
If you are correct and that Trump has been making empty promises for the last several months, then Trump is a total liar who deserves to lose the election.

If you are incorrect that Trump has been making non-empty promises for the last several months, then Trump is a total nut-job who deserves to lose the election.

He's not a total liar: he will do the things I agree with but not the things I don't agree with.
- V. Putin​


Trump/Putin
Hope & Change
2016
 
He's not a total liar: he will do the things I agree with but not the things I don't agree with.
- V. Putin​


Trump/Putin
Hope & Change
2016

Thanks much.

This has to be the most positive reason that I have ever seen to vote for Trump.
 
Inflame? These people are already trying their best to kill Americans all the time. It reminds me of when Israel turned Sheik Yassin into a puddle of goo. People around me were going "Ooh, Israel's really done it now. There's going to be a bloodbath." And I said "What is Hamas going to do? Ratchet the terrorism up to 11? They're already at 10, and that's as high as the dial goes." Actually, I didn't really say that, but I wished I had. I said something like it though.

Does it not strike you that who "these people" are changes over time, and the amount of "these people" can grow or shrink?
 

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