Another unarmed black man shot

quadraginta said:
The cultural assumption that women are the weaker, gentler sex is alive and well. People still are prone to find it inconceivable that a mother could harm her child even though the stats have been clear for decades that they are responsible for around 1/3 of the murders of children under five.

Cops should know better, but it is hard for training to entirely overcome years of social indoctrination.
Click to expand...

Probably because women are half the population but are responsible for only a small fraction of violent crimes. Even your statistic paints them in a favorable light: if women commit 1/3 of the murders of children under five, men commit 2/3.
 
Fudbucker said:
Probably because women are half the population but are responsible for only a small fraction of violent crimes. Even your statistic paints them in a favorable light: if women commit 1/3 of the murders of children under five, men commit 2/3.
Click to expand...


Sure. I'm not debating that. But you're ignoring the point I was making.

One clue pointing to this is that I didn't write that "women" commit 1/3 of those murders. I wrote that "mothers" do. The point was about social assumptions and perceptions as opposed to reality. I.e. that mothers would kill their own children. "Inconceivable".

About another third is fathers, and most of the remainder are relatives and family friends and acquaintances. I haven't seen that segment broken down by gender.
 
sadhatter said:
But you have not proven that, this pattern could have many causes, or not even be a pattern just more sensationalist reporting.
Click to expand...
What would you accept as proof?

But even giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying this is clearly racism, we are still branding all cops for the actions of few. How is this going to solve the problem? How is any of the garbage going on doing anything other than giving the bad cops an excuse?
Click to expand...
& cops are still branding blacks for the actions of a few. Do you think that's ok?

It's like a person dying from exposure because they walked for help versus just waiting in place. "We have to do something, anything. " is a way of thinking that most often leads to tragedy when applied to important situations. If you don't have a good plan doing nothing is more productive than going with one that is only going to do harm.
Click to expand...

... Do you think that applies to police as well?
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I think we have both rather clearly articulated our positions.

Let me just say that I was not denyingthere might be a problem. I was just trying to put that problem, if there is one, in perspective.
Click to expand...
Your version of 'in perspective' is stalled out at the, we don't know yet stage. That's not perspective, that's denial.

Clearly there is a problem. The size of it is a separate issue.

We have seen example after example in these video records. It's highly improbable we are simply misunderstanding what is actually happening in all of these videos. By the same token, it is highly probable that there are many more incidents just like these for which no video exists.

Investigations by the federal DoJ has found systemic problems in a number of police departments.

At the same time, some city police departments have successfully addressed the problems within their ranks.

You want the discussion stalled at, "we don't know yet if there is a problem." We're past that. If you are going to argue the size of the problem, you might not want to go about that with zero/no significant problem on your scale.
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Your version of 'in perspective' is stalled out at the, we don't know yet stage. That's not perspective, that's denial.

Clearly there is a problem. The size of it is a separate issue.

We have seen example after example in these video records. It's highly improbable we are simply misunderstanding what is actually happening in all of these videos. By the same token, it is highly probable that there are many more incidents just like these for which no video exists.

Investigations by the federal DoJ has found systemic problems in a number of police departments.

At the same time, some city police departments have successfully addressed the problems within their ranks.

You want the discussion stalled at, "we don't know yet if there is a problem." We're past that. If you are going to argue the size of the problem, you might not want to go about that with zero/no significant problem on your scale.
Click to expand...

35,000 people die each year in the US due to traffic accidents. Is that a problem? Should we do something about it? 2,000 people die each year in the US from alcohol poisoning. Is that a problem? Should we do something about it?

How many people are killed by police unjustifiably each year in the US? How much extra crime would there be if you cracked down harder on police officers who screw up?

Perhaps you should think about these questions before becoming too wedded to your position.
 
sunmaster14 said:
35,000 people die each year in the US due to traffic accidents. Is that a problem? Should we do something about it? 2,000 people die each year in the US from alcohol poisoning. Is that a problem? Should we do something about it?

How many people are killed by police unjustifiably each year in the US? How much extra crime would there be if you cracked down harder on police officers who screw up?

Perhaps you should think about these questions before becoming too wedded to your position.
Click to expand...

All of those are problems that should be dealt with. What's your point?
 
thaiboxerken said:
All of those are problems that should be dealt with. What's your point?
Click to expand...

That there are trade-offs in life. We could reduce the auto accident fatality rate to near zero if we banned cars, but that wouldn't be worth it. Likewise, we could try to ban alcohol to reduce alcohol related deaths, but we tried that already with decidedly negative results. It's quite possible that reforms to police protocols that reduce the homicide rate due directly to illegal or incompetent police action will result in more deaths and injuries to police, higher salaries for police, less aggressive policing, and more crime.

My problem with liberals in general is that they're zeroth order thinkers. In chess, they would be called 1-ply patzers. They only think one move ahead. They almost never think through some of the unplanned consequences of new laws and regulations.
 
I think that reducing the number of innocent black people being killed by the police is a pretty good goal. You may not, but that's your failing.
 
sunmaster14 said:
How many people are killed by police unjustifiably each year in the US? How much extra crime would there be if you cracked down harder on police officers who screw up?
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible that there would be less crime if we cracked down harder on police officers who screw up. It may lead to more respect for police by the populace at large, more cooperation with police, and thus police having an easier and more successful job.
 
Roboramma said:
It's entirely possible that there would be less crime if we cracked down harder on police officers who screw up. It may lead to more respect for police by the populace at large, more cooperation with police, and thus police having an easier and more successful job.
Click to expand...

What a weird supposition. Ensuring people do their jobs better could lead to more successes?! That's just weird.
 
sunmaster14 said:
My problem with liberals in general is that they're zeroth order thinkers. In chess, they would be called 1-ply patzers. They only think one move ahead. They almost never think through some of the unplanned consequences of new laws and regulations.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the bell curve of thinkers on both sides of the political spectrum is pretty similar with some "zeroth order thinkers", some who thoughtfully analyse the long term consequences of any particular policy or course of action, and most falling somewhere in between.

Of course, you may be right that the bell curve of liberals is shifted toward the shallow thinkers more than that of conservatives, but I don't know of any evidence that it is nor even a plausible explanation of why I should expect it would be.
 
332nd said:
<snip>
sadhatter said:
But even giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying this is clearly racism, we are still branding all cops for the actions of few. How is this going to solve the problem? How is any of the garbage going on doing anything other than giving the bad cops an excuse?
Click to expand...
& cops are still branding blacks for the actions of a few. Do you think that's ok?
Click to expand...


Of course it is. They are black, after all.

It's like a person dying from exposure because they walked for help versus just waiting in place. "We have to do something, anything. " is a way of thinking that most often leads to tragedy when applied to important situations. If you don't have a good plan doing nothing is more productive than going with one that is only going to do harm.
Click to expand...
... Do you think that applies to police as well?
Click to expand...

Of course it doesn't. It's the police doing it. That means it's okay.
 
Bogative said:
A Tulsa Police official confirmed to the Tulsa World Tuesday afternoon that officers found PCP in the vehicle used by Terence Crutcher the night he was fatally shot by police.


Could explain why he repeatedly disobeyed orders and parked his vehicle in the middle the street.
Click to expand...
You know I'm going to wait for some confirmation before I believe this.

Ammonitida said:
Police say that a vial of PCP was found inside the SUV. If it turns out that he was on PCP, this would be strong evidence in support of her story (the part not on video) and would explain why she felt it necessary to draw her firearm instead of her taser.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...cle_d965a1f2-072b-57bf-a682-6b1cfb22b246.html
Click to expand...
Except that the officer's account never mentioned anything like this.

Ammonitida said:
Edit: The police source is not confirmed. Take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Oh I do.
 
thaiboxerken said:
I think that reducing the number of innocent black people being killed by the police is a pretty good goal. You may not, but that's your failing.
Click to expand...

Do you care about the unarmed Hispanic, Asian, White, et al people who are shot by police? Are you aware of any anomaly in the statistics that shows an over abundance of unarmed black men being shot by police?

It's been said already, but I feel it needs repeating.

Are the cops supposed to be not scared?

How would that work? Could we hypnotise them all before each shift so they're under the false belief that they are not in The Land Of The Free? Where everybody could have a gun? Where a cop dies by gunshot every week?

Interesting concept.

Blue Lives Matter Too.
 
Shiner said:
Do you care about the unarmed Hispanic, Asian, White, et al people who are shot by police?
Click to expand...

Nope. Just the black people. :rolleyes:

And the governments, including Federal, State and Local, should stop hiring white supremacists.
 
Last edited:
thaiboxerken said:
And the governments, including Federal, State and Local, should stop hiring white supremacists.
Click to expand...

That might be a part of it. How would they achieve this? Maybe they should just hire more black supremacists to even it out.

And how would that change the gun culture that they are employed to police?

Police shootings of civilians of all colours and states of armament are just a mediocre by-product of your 2nd ammendment rights.
 
Last edited:
thaiboxerken said:
Nope. Just the black people. :rolleyes:

And the governments, including Federal, State and Local, should stop hiring white supremacists.
Click to expand...

I guess another step would be for your to show that they do hire white supremacists. Surely you're not assuming that the apparent disproportionate number of black people killed by police mean that said police are white supremacists, right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom