Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[SezMe]

What the Trump support from both base and leadership has shown is that the majority of conservatives have no spine.

No disagreement here but I'd put it a bit differently; Their values are .... er ... fluid? Changeable? No! I've got it: situational. In spite of their claims of objective values (read: god-given) they have, at heart, subjective values, just like everyone else who has given thought to matters of ethics and morality. They just don't want to admit it.

Evangelicals in particular get behind the objectively less Christian candidate because of one issue: abortion. As if that was the one thing Christ cared about.

You may be right but I think that is a minor factor. You identified the real core issue:

For the leadership it's all about power even if they have to jetison every bit of pride and credibility.

Yep. They think (I use the word loosely) that Trump will listen and respond to their, yes, anti-abortion efforts but also their prayer in schools, anti-same-sex marriage and Supreme Court nomination efforts. Oh boy, are they in for a huge reality check should Trump actually win.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Yep. They think (I use the word loosely) that Trump will listen and respond to their, yes, anti-abortion efforts but also their prayer in schools, anti-same-sex marriage and Supreme Court nomination efforts. Oh boy, are they in for a huge reality check should Trump actually win.

So will Trump.
I think he believes that becoming president means that every Republican in House and Senate has to do what he tells them.
The danger is his "negotiation power": he doesn't care about core Republican issues, so he will trade support for them in return for all his pet projects, such as the stupid wall.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I don't fault you for that at all. Every one of us tends to live in a bubble of those who generally think like we do.

...

I don't think this necessarily makes Republicans stupid or dumb but it does testify that they are woefully ignorant and apparently uninterested in becoming more informed. Your friends, not unexpectedly, appear to be outside the average Republican demographic.

Thanks for that.

I still fault the all inclusive generalization of Republicans. I would suggest:

"I don't think this necessarily makes Republicans stupid or dumb but it does testify that they a depressingly large percentage of them are woefully ignorant and apparently uninterested in becoming more informed."

If those surveys are correct, I would agree with that as modified.

 

[Tero]

morning's search yielded, besides Crooked Trump, this gem:
CRUZ DOOMS A PRESIDENT is an anagram for ZODIAC ENDORSES TRUMP!

 

[NoahFence]

Not good so much as necessary. We have people alive today for whom the next president will be the first white president in their lifetime. No pain, no gain.

You think we're in such a bad state today that we need to blow it all up?

 

[NoahFence]

Actually, you're close. He hopes that it will prevent Drumpf from funding someone to primary him the next time Cruz is up for re-election.

You mean drumpf's FOUNDATION.

That's where the money he spends comes from

 

[marplots]

You think we're in such a bad state today that we need to blow it all up?

I think the damage Trump can do is being seriously overestimated. It reminds me of what the right used to say about Obama - all the evils of the world will swoop down upon us, stealing our babies in the night.

It's a bad strategy in the end. The more you make a candidate out to be Hitler's clone, the more you risk people not taking anything said seriously. That's always the problem with caricatures - people figure out it's theater.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Why wasn't Johnson killed? The passions of the Vietnam War era were massive!

What a truly strange conversation! It sounds almost as though you're disappointed but that's more likely me misinterpreting your remarks like you're misinterpreted the bluster and hyperbole of people who "hate X with a passion" when they're really just a partisan opponent.

You have to keep reducing those numbers of The Opposition. Say half (as you calculate) the anti-Obama vote is passionately anti-Obama. That gives you your pool of potential assassins at 30 mil. How many of those, though, are just bog-standard idiots willing to believe nonsense and have no more proclivity for murder/assassination than your average high steel worker has for taking up macrame?

I think you need to further reduce that 30 mil to smaller and smaller sub-groups, probably cutting that in half, then again in half, then again in half, etc...

Yeah, you'd still be left with a basket of a certain number who might actually do something like that given 100% assurance that they could get away with it, but that number is then reduced by the certainty that they will NOT get away with it.

What you're left with is the lone nutters. Since '68, the attempted Presidential assassinations have been lone nutters, with nary a political bone in their bodies. The organized (for certain definitions of that term) hate bloggers and radicals are pretty much all mouth.

It is just fascinating that the number of people who kill the president is less than lottery winning lightning victims. I seriously overestimate how much half the country doesn't like the president at any time.

 

[Stacko]

Another very interesting 'find' by Stacko and very troubling. I recently read an article about the ways in which Russian government officials and Russian oligarchs have colluded to enrich one another and the amounts of money involved are staggering. That's another issue I would fear if the impossible happened and The Don won the election. You want corruption, folks, real corruption?

[OT] I read how, as a sop to reform elements, a Russian police agency was empowered to investigate major corruption. Two of the investigators got their signals crossed and wound up arresting a Putin crony. One of the investigators was passionate about the rule of law and refused to withdraw his criminal complaint. Of course he was framed and arrested himself. When he still wouldn't crack -- despite looking at a ten year sentence -- they framed him on crimes that would carry a life sentence. When the guards came to get him, to sign his 'confession,' he took a header off the top tier of the prison cellblock. In a letter written beforehand to his wife, he apologized but said, "It is the only weapon I have left." [/OT]

But really the above is not off-topic. We know Trump admires Putin as a tough leader and this would probably be the "tough manly" type corruption I fear we would see from President Dumpster Fire. This is what's at stake.

For more reading, Politico attempted a profile on the mysterious top foreign policy advisor.

I got my next surprise when I called Stephen Miller, Trump’s senior advisor. I caught him just as the Trump plane was about to take off, and asked him the tired, old question: Who is Carter Page?

“Who?” said Miller, and then went off the record to expound on his lack of involvement in the campaign.

“He has no formal role in the campaign,” Hope Hicks texted responding to my question.

Now my interest was piqued. There were whispers all over Washington that, despite Hicks’s denial, Page was not only still part of the Trump campaign, but its conduit for Russian influence. Was he?

 

[NoahFence]

I think the damage Trump can do is being seriously overestimated. It reminds me of what the right used to say about Obama - all the evils of the world will swoop down upon us, stealing our babies in the night.

It's a bad strategy in the end. The more you make a candidate out to be Hitler's clone, the more you risk people not taking anything said seriously. That's always the problem with caricatures - people figure out it's theater.

Well you're completely wrong that he can't do catastrophic damage.

I suspect you don't give a **** though, so the best I can do is hope we never have to hear me say I told you so.

 

[phiwum]

Well you're completely wrong that he can't do catastrophic damage.

I suspect you don't give a **** though, so the best I can do is hope we never have to hear me say I told you so.

I agree that Marplots underestimates the possible harm and even that his bizarre thrill in playing devil's advocate can suggest that he's uncaring, but I respectfully suggest you go a little too far here.

 

[Ladewig]

I just had a thought.

If he were to win, would he change the name of Trump Tower to President Trump Tower?

 

[Foolmewunz]

I just had a thought.

If he were to win, would he change the name of Trump Tower to President Trump Tower?

I think that would be up to his vile offspring. After all, he's told us that he won't have anything to do with his businesses, no really trust him on this, not a thing.

 

[newyorkguy]

There's another way to look at this though, the Tea Party and the hard core right Republicans. That making room for them within the Republican Party does exert a bit of a moderating influence over them. At least it keeps them in a mainstream party. If moderate Republicans tried to silence them or ignore their views the result would probably be an attempt to form an extreme party that could really damage the democratic process. I'd rather keep them in the Republican Party.

As for the evangelical right skewing to Trump, in the interviews I've seen or read with supporters they tend to emphasize their belief that "Christianity is under attack as never before." Most said they believed Barack Obama was actively pursuing an agenda aimed at destroying Christianity in the U.S. Typical was a woman who praised Trump and said, "I believe God sent him to us I really do." Many of these evangelical supporters are probably among the sizeable percentage of Americans who still say they believe Barack Obama is a foreign-born Muslim. I presume they expect Hillary Clinton will continue this agenda if elected.

When the interviewer asked her about supporting someone with Trump's lifestyle she had a quick answer. She admitted to being troubled by some of the things Trump has done but believes his personal redemption is a very real possibility. She said, "I know he's not perfect and I pray for him every day."

 

[Ladewig]

There's another way to look at this though, the Tea Party and the hard core right Republicans. That making room for them within the Republican Party does exert a bit of a moderating influence over them. At least it keeps them in a mainstream party. If moderate Republicans tried to silence them or ignore their views the result would probably be an attempt to form an extreme party that could really damage the democratic process. I'd rather keep them in the Republican Party.

As for the evangelical right skewing to Trump, in the interviews I've seen or read with supporters they tend to emphasize their belief that "Christianity is under attack as never before." Most said they believed Barack Obama was actively pursuing an agenda aimed at destroying Christianity in the U.S. Typical was a woman who praised Trump and said, "I believe God sent him to us I really do." Many of these evangelical supporters are probably among the sizeable percentage of Americans who still say they believe Barack Obama is a foreign-born Muslim. I presume they expect Hillary Clinton will continue this agenda if elected.

When the interviewer asked her about supporting someone with Trump's lifestyle she had a quick answer. She admitted to being troubled by some of the things Trump has done but believes his personal redemption is a very real possibility. She said, "I know he's not perfect and I pray for him every day."

I am really having a hard time imaging Trump saying "Now that I am saved, I will tithe to the church. And of course I mean gross income and not net income."

 

[marplots]

Well you're completely wrong that he can't do catastrophic damage.

I suspect you don't give a **** though, so the best I can do is hope we never have to hear me say I told you so.

Did you have some specific fear in mind? My fear button has nearly worn out with all the paranoia spawned in this election. I'm still waiting for Obama to take all the guns and institute Sharia law.

 

[marplots]

I agree that Marplots underestimates the possible harm and even that his bizarre thrill in playing devil's advocate can suggest that he's uncaring, but I respectfully suggest you go a little too far here.

I don't think of the presidency as having unlimited power, nor capable of much permanent damage. We do have the mechanism of impeachment in play.

So what is Trump going to be capable of that Obama and Bush were not?

 

[aleCcowaN]

Which is the scarier thing under your political bed?

Trump + cheget/football?
Trump + veto?
Trump + commander in chief?
...?

 

[phiwum]

I think the opposite, insult my family then the candidate isn't brilliant in my eyesl

I don't see this as a necessary conclusion.

To be sure, the actual statements Trump made about Cruz's family do suggest a lack of judgment. But, generally speaking, the fact that a man criticizes my family does not, by itself, indicate he would be a bad president. Personal (and familial) pride shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether he's a competent leader.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I don't see this as a necessary conclusion.

To be sure, the actual statements Trump made about Cruz's family do suggest a lack of judgment. But, generally speaking, the fact that a man criticizes my family does not, by itself, indicate he would be a bad president. Personal (and familial) pride shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether he's a competent leader.

I don't think it's merely an issue of "pride" to be outraged, personally, about someone who would repeat scandalous lies about your family for political advantage. An issue of pride would be if someone pointed out am embarrassing "fact", e.g. that my father was a lush. Pride might command that I take umbrage on the side of the good family name* and defend him as an all around decent chap, good father, blah blah blah....

*To be clear - this is a hypothetical. My father was a dickhead.