Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[tyr_13]

Not good so much as necessary.

Why? Quick wealth redistribution?

We have people alive today for whom the next president will be the first white president in their lifetime.

ROFL, so? First of all, yes, eight year old exist. Second, why does the race of the president make world war et al a positive outcome? Tell me you're pulling my leg, because this is hilarious!

No pain, no gain.

No Jews, no Jews. Wait, they had their turn at attempted genocide victims last time. Who do you nominate for this time?

EDIT: And it looks like the US is stepping up as Germany this round.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

He thinks that will save him from the vengeance of a POTUS Trump.

Could be Priebus pressure. He was bitching about Kasich not being on board and it included a threat of withdrawal of RNC support. Wonder how long Priebus is going to head the DNC after the Trump fiasco?

 

[SezMe]

He thinks that will save him from the vengeance of a POTUS Trump.

Actually, you're close. He hopes that it will prevent Drumpf from funding someone to primary him the next time Cruz is up for re-election.

 

[Tony Stark]

Actually, you're close. He hopes that it will prevent Drumpf from funding someone to primary him when next Cruz is up for re-election.

This sounds plausible to me.

 

[SezMe]

In news that should be getting more attention: Feds investigating Donald advisor’s meeting with Russian officials seeking to influence U.S. election.

This is one of the meta-issues that bothers me. In the past, on either side of the aisle, such a meeting would be buh-bye to any candidate. This close to the election, Fed's investigation won't come to a conclusion before election day so he'll get away with whatever happened. Trump is thereby lowering the bar for future contests.

Our campaigns are venal enough as it is. Further coarsening of our political processes is not going to be fruitful.

 

[marplots]

Not good so much as necessary.

Why? Quick wealth redistribution?

No. Because the idea that we can maintain a continuing upward cycle of virtue is hollow, both historically and mathematically. Even Obama ran on "Hope and Change" - Trump is doing the same thing. Even those who don't see much hope feel he represents change.

We have people alive today for whom the next president will be the first white president in their lifetime.

ROFL, so? First of all, yes, eight year old exist. Second, why does the race of the president make world war et al a positive outcome? Tell me you're pulling my leg, because this is hilarious!

How did you jump to world war? Let's not introduce paranoid fantasies. That's as bad as claiming Trump is the Anti-Christ. The point is that time marches on and new people are arriving all the time. New perspectives and unchallenged by the history we lived through. It's their world now.

No pain, no gain.

No Jews, no Jews. Wait, they had their turn at attempted genocide victims last time. Who do you nominate for this time?

EDIT: And it looks like the US is stepping up as Germany this round.

I guess if you believe the analogy the calculus comes out differently. I don't equate Trump with Hitler, or any other tyrant. Frankly, I thought those comparisons were so much hyperbole. If you are serious, I don't have a response - just that I disagree.

 

[SezMe]

I think it's hard to know what will happen in the aftermath of what many Republicans expect to be a disastrous 2016 campaign.<snip>

I question this. It now looks as if the GOP keeps the House and the Senate and a tight grip on governor's mansions. The earlier fears of a rout are long forgotten.

The GOP insiders (read: funders) will institute reforms to keep future elections out of the hands of the Baggers by strengthening the power of the elite, will claim that Trump was never a Republican in the first place (which, of course, is correct) and will emphasize their successes in the face of Trump's disaster. This is presaged already this year by the Kochs, Adelsons, etc. putting their money into down-ballot races.

This too can be seen as part of their long-term strategy. Demographics point to decreasing chances of the presidency for the GOP so keeping hold of the Legislative Branch is vital. By keeping control at the state level, they can influence the redistricting process and keep the House at least just about completely out of reach for the Dems.

One fly in this ointment is the Dems gaining control of appointments to the Supreme Court. If the Court ever rules that gerrymandering is unconstitutional (which, in my opinion, they should) then it's game-set-match for the GOP. But, at this point, that's just wishful thinking.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I question this. It now looks as if the GOP keeps the House and the Senate and a tight grip on governor's mansions. The earlier fears of a rout are long forgotten.

The GOP insiders (read: funders) will institute reforms to keep future elections out of the hands of the Baggers by strengthening the power of the elite, will claim that Trump was never a Republican in the first place (which, of course, is correct) and will emphasize their successes in the face of Trump's disaster. This is presaged already this year by the Kochs, Adelsons, etc. putting their money into down-ballot races.

This too can be seen as part of their long-term strategy. Demographics point to decreasing chances of the presidency for the GOP so keeping hold of the Legislative Branch is vital. By keeping control at the state level, they can influence the redistricting process and keep the House at least just about completely out of reach for the Dems.

One fly in this ointment is the Dems gaining control of appointments to the Supreme Court. If the Court ever rules that gerrymandering is unconstitutional (which, in my opinion, they should) then it's game-set-match for the GOP. But, at this point, that's just wishful thinking.

I think they ruled it unconstitutional in Davis v bandemer
...sort of.

 

[SezMe]

"But, significantly, none of my friends are stupid. None of them are crazy. And none of them are racist. If they were, they would not be my friends."

I don't fault you for that at all. Every one of us tends to live in a bubble of those who generally think like we do.

At the risk of getting into the cage match between you and Tony, I'd offer the following:
Link

...for Republicans alone -- 43 percent thought Obama is Muslim, compared with 15 percent of Democrats and 29 percent of independents.

Link

The survey found that 54 percent of the Republican primary electorate thought Obama is a Muslim, compared with just 14 percent who thought he is Christian and 32 percent who said they didn’t know.

Link

A new HuffPost/YouGov poll finds that 53 percent of Republicans still doubt Obama’s citizenship.

Link

In a shocking finding, more than half of GOP primary voters believe President Barack Obama was not born in the United States, according to a new poll.

Just 27 percent of Republicans believe the Earth is warming due to human activity compared to 71 percent of Democrats, according to a new report released by the Pew Research Center

I don't think this necessarily makes Republicans stupid or dumb but it does testify that they are woefully ignorant and apparently uninterested in becoming more informed. Your friends, not unexpectedly, appear to be outside the average Republican demographic.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I don't fault you for that at all. Every one of us tends to live in a bubble of those who generally think like we do.

At the risk of getting into the cage match between you and Tony, I'd offer the following:
Link


Link


Link


Link




I don't think this necessarily makes Republicans stupid or dumb but it does testify that they are woefully ignorant and apparently uninterested in becoming more informed. Your friends, not unexpectedly, appear to be outside the average Republican demographic.

If those numbers are true, how is Obama alive? 60 million people voted for Romney. That means 30 million or so didn't think he was born here? That seems like enough people that we would eventually identify a cohort that had ability and thought that would warrant extrajudicial killing. How has it been 50 years since the last one?

 

[Ladewig]

Could be Priebus pressure. He was bitching about Kasich not being on board and it included a threat of withdrawal of RNC support. Wonder how long Priebus is going to head the DNC after the Trump fiasco?

I have not yet found a reliable source for this claim:
It wasn't Priebus, it was Texas Lieutenant Govenor Dan Patrick. Allegedly he told Cruz that if he didn't fall in line then Patrick would make sure that Cruz would face a challenger for his senate seat and that Patrick would throw the whole weight of the Texan Republican Party behind the challenger.

Patrick is also a right-wing radio talk show host.

 

[Ladewig]

If those numbers are true, how is Obama alive? 60 million people voted for Romney. That means 30 million or so didn't think he was born here? That seems like enough people that we would eventually identify a cohort that had ability and thought that would warrant extrajudicial killing. How has it been 50 years since the last one?

Many people in that group of 30 million wrote death-threat letters to the president. The USSS then increased their ranks by an unknown percentage. Apparently it was enough to prevent any kook from getting a shot off. And those that publicly suggest such a murder earn themselves an interview with a SS agent.

 

[Foolmewunz]

If those numbers are true, how is Obama alive? 60 million people voted for Romney. That means 30 million or so didn't think he was born here? That seems like enough people that we would eventually identify a cohort that had ability and thought that would warrant extrajudicial killing. How has it been 50 years since the last one?

That's some extrapolation! Is this from MIT's study on "Seems Like". How did Nixon live to a ripe old age with all the people in his own party and the opposition hating him? Seems like you have a larger statistical base of "don't like him and think he's a degenerate traitor" to pick from. Nixon's approval rating dropped to 24% at the end.

 

[BobTheCoward]

That's some extrapolation! Is this from MIT's study on "Seems Like". How did Nixon live to a ripe old age with all the people in his own party and the opposition hating him? Seems like you have a larger statistical base of "don't like him and think he's a degenerate traitor" to pick from. Nixon's approval rating dropped to 24% at the end.

Why wasn't Nixon killed? How do we have millions of people and a president like that doesn't have dozens of attempts on their life?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Many people in that group of 30 million wrote death-threat letters to the president. The USSS then increased their ranks by an unknown percentage. Apparently it was enough to prevent any kook from getting a shot off. And those that publicly suggest such a murder earn themselves an interview with a SS agent.

But with how many people there are, I'm surprised there hasn't been so.many attempts that attempts haven't been foiled by would be assassins accidentally shooting another one there.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Why wasn't Nixon killed? How do we have millions of people and a president like that doesn't have dozens of attempts on their life?

Why wasn't Johnson killed? The passions of the Vietnam War era were massive!

What a truly strange conversation! It sounds almost as though you're disappointed but that's more likely me misinterpreting your remarks like you're misinterpreted the bluster and hyperbole of people who "hate X with a passion" when they're really just a partisan opponent.

You have to keep reducing those numbers of The Opposition. Say half (as you calculate) the anti-Obama vote is passionately anti-Obama. That gives you your pool of potential assassins at 30 mil. How many of those, though, are just bog-standard idiots willing to believe nonsense and have no more proclivity for murder/assassination than your average high steel worker has for taking up macrame?

I think you need to further reduce that 30 mil to smaller and smaller sub-groups, probably cutting that in half, then again in half, then again in half, etc...

Yeah, you'd still be left with a basket of a certain number who might actually do something like that given 100% assurance that they could get away with it, but that number is then reduced by the certainty that they will NOT get away with it.

What you're left with is the lone nutters. Since '68, the attempted Presidential assassinations have been lone nutters, with nary a political bone in their bodies. The organized (for certain definitions of that term) hate bloggers and radicals are pretty much all mouth.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have not yet found a reliable source for this claim:
It wasn't Priebus, it was Texas Lieutenant Govenor Dan Patrick. Allegedly he told Cruz that if he didn't fall in line then Patrick would make sure that Cruz would face a challenger for his senate seat and that Patrick would throw the whole weight of the Texan Republican Party behind the challenger.

Patrick is also a right-wing radio talk show host.

Not sure what you haven't found a source for. I heard Priebus himself discussing his threat to Kasich in a news interview. The other information in your post just adds to what I heard from Priebus about Kasich. I imagine the RNC is pressuring more than just Kasich.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

What the Trump support from both base and leadership has shown is that the majority of conservatives have no spine.
Evangelicals in particular get behind the objectively less Christian candidate because of one issue: abortion. As if that was the one thing Christ cared about.
For the leadership it's all about power even if they have to jetison every bit of pride and credibility.
The conservative movement has no values left if they support Trump who by every measure is not a Republican or believer in the Constitution.

 

[Andy_Ross]

You misunderstand me. I don't care about party loyalty. I just think that there are many, many reasons to oppose Trump, and the fact that he insulted your family is very low on the list.

Indeed, suppose Trump was a brilliant candidate, likely to be the best president ever. If I believed that, but chose not to endorse him because he insulted my family, I would be at fault, putting mere personal issues above a fair assessment of the nation's interests.

I think the opposite, insult my family then the candidate isn't brilliant in my eyesl

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The way a candidate runs his campaign is important.
It's not a question of personal insult, but that Cruz declared that he would not support someone who would stoop so low as to attack family.
How McCain can even pretend to support Trump after being told that he was a wuss for being caught is beyond me.