Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[The Great Zaganza]

As has already been discussed in this thread many times. Trump is less a liar and more a bull****er. He just says whatever is convenient for his overarching story (which is that he is a genius in all affairs and fields). If he is talking to people who like the wall, then he claims that the wall is number one priority. If he is talking to people who like amnesty, then amnesty is his number one priority. The same with jobs and terrorism and every issue. Trump has a dozen number one priorities.

It's not a question of priority, it's being without any own convictions and just say whatever the audience wants to hear:

NBC collected 116 instances in which Trump shifted policy positions:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...p-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

 

[quadraginta]

There is a slight difference in connotation; "Trump is a liar" implies that he cares about the truth value of his statements (that is, he makes deliberately false propositions). A BS:er cares about how what he says sounds; the truth value is secondary or irrelevant.

I'm not seeing it. Anyone who speaks in public for a living cares about how what he says sounds. If he knows that what he says isn't true then he is still a liar.

When Trump says "We will build a wall!" the important thing is not whether a wall will in fact be constructed, but rather the reaction he gets from the crowd.

If he knows he isn't going to build a wall then he's a liar. If he changes what he claims he is going to do to suit the audience at hand, while he knows full well that he is doing that then he is a bull ******** liar.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

There is a slight difference in connotation; "Trump is a liar" implies that he cares about the truth value of his statements (that is, he makes deliberately false propositions). A BS:er cares about how what he says sounds; the truth value is secondary or irrelevant.

When Trump says "We will build a wall!" the important thing is not whether a wall will in fact be constructed, but rather the reaction he gets from the crowd.

And if I were to complete that thought, when Trump tells people he was always against the Iraq war and they play a tape of him saying he was for it which he ignores and continues to say he was always against the war, that is a lie....

etc times a daily diet of lying about what he's said, done, accomplished.

Trump is not just a liar, he's a compulsive liar.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What do you mean? Federal prosecutors stand up and say a person is guilty all the time. Wouldn't be weird if their boss didn't back them?

But the judge doesn't.

I'm not.making an analogy. I am discussing specifically if a boss cannot issue the same statement as a subordinate.

You are making a stupid analogy that somehow the job of POTUS is akin to a federal prosecutor's boss. But you forget that the POTUS, to make your analogy, would also be the boss of the public defender.

I don't know why you are arguing this, a POTUS weighing in that a suspect not yet convicted is nonetheless guilty could even be grounds for overturning a conviction.

 

[Babbylonian]

I still am not making myself clear.i don't care how we construct the hypothetical. I am not asking about a situation where it is wrong for the cop and wrong for the president. I also don't have any questions about situations where it is right for the cop and right for the president. Right for the president and wrong for the cop is outside the scope. I am asking if you think there are any situations where it is right for the cop to make a public comment but wrong for the president to make the same public comment.

No, I guess you were making yourself clear. I was trying to interpret your questions in a way that made them intelligent or meaningful. Your actual question is stupid.

 

[Bob001]

Trump paid personal debts with his foundation's money:

Donald Trump spent more than a quarter-million dollars from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits that involved the billionaire’s for-profit businesses, according to interviews and a review of legal documents.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html

 

[sunmaster14]

And if I were to complete that thought, when Trump tells people he was always against the Iraq war and they play a tape of him saying he was for it which he ignores and continues to say he was always against the war, that is a lie....

The tape of his appearance on the Howard Stern show is not proof that he is lying. He could easily have changed his mind about the Iraq War in the time between when Howard asked him and the time the war started. Also, his reply to Howard was pretty wishy-washy. It might have prompted him to think more about the issue, and he might have decided against it after more thought.

There's no doubt that it's rather self-serving of him to claim now, without any public evidence, that he was against the Iraq War. But the same is true for Barack Obama. It wasn't particularly heroic for Obama to respond to an invitation from Penny Pritzker, one of the richest people in the world, and an antiwar liberal, to speak at an antiwar demonstration. He got a lot of mileage out of a statement that was practically de rigueur in the company he kept at the time.

 

[Babbylonian]

Trump paid personal debts with his foundation's money:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html

All of which makes his bribe of donation to Pam Bondi coming from the foundation look more like business as usual than the mistake it's claimed to be.

 

[acbytesla]

And if I were to complete that thought, when Trump tells people he was always against the Iraq war and they play a tape of him saying he was for it which he ignores and continues to say he was always against the war, that is a lie....

etc times a daily diet of lying about what he's said, done, accomplished.

Trump is not just a liar, he's a compulsive liar.

Of course Trump is a compulsive liar. To suggest that he is not is disingenuous. His bait and switch with the press the other day to promote his hotel is another example that Trump has no problem deceiving anyone if he thinks it will help him.

The man has no morals.

 

[pgwenthold]

Trump paid personal debts with his foundation's money:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html

Better yet, he used it to resolve LEGAL issues.

Note that Trump has contributed anything to the Trump Foundation since 2009, yet uses it as his own personal bank account.

Crowdsourcing!

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, I guess you were making yourself clear. I was trying to interpret your questions in a way that made them intelligent or meaningful. Your actual question is stupid.

Why is it stupid? Also, it takes less time to answer the question than to call it stupid.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I never claimed Clinton was a birther. She's limited in her ability to call Trump out on birtherism when her senior adviser was trying to get her to portray Obama as un-American.

Because she had the foresight not to follow that advisor's bad advice?

Seems she is still on solid ground. Ground that Trump conceded for years as he tracked down the birther red herring . . .

 

[Dr. Keith]

You think that memo happened in a vacuum? You don't think there was serious discussion about portraying Obama as an "other"? This wasn't some campaign flunky who wrote that memo, and you can't be that naive. I give Clinton credit for not carrying it out, but by the same token, I'm not some babe in the woods who doesn't know how high-level campaigns are run. I guarantee you there was serious talk among Clinton and her senior staff members about portraying Obama as unAmerican, and people who read that memo think the same thing I do, which is why she can't hammer him righteously on birtherism.

The key is that she was not going to lie about him. Even if she had decided to make his upbringing a topic, she did not need to fabricate anything to do so.

I'm glad she didn't go that route, but even if she had it would be worlds away from lying about where the man was born, lying about his eligibility to serve as president, lying about having evidence that he was not born in Hawaii, and then whining that the evidence that was finally presented to shut up even the most ardent idiots was probably faked. And note that this didn't occur over a few weeks or even the months of a campaign, this dragged on for years. Even earlier this year he was implying that the President for the last few years was ineligible for the office.

Yeah, false equivalence doesn't even come close to covering this.

 

[acbytesla]

The tape of his appearance on the Howard Stern show is not proof that he is lying. He could easily have changed his mind about the Iraq War in the time between when Howard asked him and the time the war started. Also, his reply to Howard was pretty wishy-washy. It might have prompted him to think more about the issue, and he might have decided against it after more thought.

There's no doubt that it's rather self-serving of him to claim now, without any public evidence, that he was against the Iraq War. But the same is true for Barack Obama. It wasn't particularly heroic for Obama to respond to an invitation from Penny Pritzker, one of the richest people in the world, and an antiwar liberal, to speak at an antiwar demonstration. He got a lot of mileage out of a statement that was practically de rigueur in the company he kept at the time.

Other than your suggestion that Trump isn't lying we are in agreement. But when isn't a Trump statement self serving?

I've always been annoyed when people say that Hillary Clinton voted for the war when in fact she didn't. The bill was clear that it authorized war if certain conditions were met. Condoleezza Rice assured Senator Clinton that the bill was more a signal to Iraq that the US was serious and to get inspections started again.

I also think it is PHONEY for people who weren't actually faced with that decision to suggest that they would have done differently. Keeping in mind that only 1 Republican Senator voted against the bill and 6 Republican Congressman.

Bernie Sanders has a legitimate right to hammer Hillary on the vote Trump does not and neither did Obama. Trump's suggestion that he never supported the Iraq war has been proven to be a lie. That it was a little wishy washy suggests he really didn't have a clue. Probably, because he didn't know what side was most personally beneficial.

Typical Trump.

 

[varwoche]

The tape of his appearance on the Howard Stern show is not proof that he is lying. He could easily have changed his mind about the Iraq War in the time between when Howard asked him and the time the war started. Also, his reply to Howard was pretty wishy-washy. It might have prompted him to think more about the issue, and he might have decided against it after more thought.

There's no doubt that it's rather self-serving of him to claim now, without any public evidence, that he was against the Iraq War. But the same is true for Barack Obama. It wasn't particularly heroic for Obama to respond to an invitation from Penny Pritzker, one of the richest people in the world, and an antiwar liberal, to speak at an antiwar demonstration. He got a lot of mileage out of a statement that was practically de rigueur in the company he kept at the time.

You acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Trump was in support of invasion. You also acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Obama was against invasion. And yet you spin these facts with self-serving supposition that puts a whirling dervish to shame, relentlessly casting Trump in the best possible light and casting Obama in the worst possible light.

 

[Dr. Keith]

You acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Trump was in support of invasion. You also acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Obama was against invasion. And yet you spin these facts with self-serving supposition that puts a whirling dervish to shame, relentlessly casting Trump in the best possible light and casting Obama in the worst possible light.

It's not always the lighting . . . .

 

[CapelDodger]

If he knows he isn't going to build a wall then he's a liar. If he changes what he claims he is going to do to suit the audience at hand, while he knows full well that he is doing that then he is a bull ******** liar.

Consider Schroedinger's cat. Is it a lie to say it's alive? Or to say it's dead? No, but it is BS.

Think of Trump's mind as the box and his policies as dead/alive cats. (Don't let the dead cat on his head confuse the issue). He's no more idea what they are than anybody else, and won't until the box is opened - which will only happen if and when he's elected. If he isn't elected he'll assume the mantle of Captain Hindsight.

This is not to say that Trump doesn't lie like normal people breathe. "The NFL sent me a letter" ("No we didn't"). That sort of stuff just gushes out.

 

[CapelDodger]

You acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Trump was in support of invasion. You also acknowledge that the only pre-invasion comment from Obama was against invasion. And yet you spin these facts with self-serving supposition that puts a whirling dervish to shame, relentlessly casting Trump in the best possible light and casting Obama in the worst possible light.

Amazing that he never seems to get dizzy. Nor pause for a moment's reflection for that matter. It's almost mesmerising, so I just don't look anymore. It always ends at the same place anyway.

 

[pgwenthold]

Other than your suggestion that Trump isn't lying we are in agreement. But when isn't a Trump statement self serving?

I've always been annoyed when people say that Hillary Clinton voted for the war when in fact she didn't. The bill was clear that it authorized war if certain conditions were met. Condoleezza Rice assured Senator Clinton that the bill was more a signal to Iraq that the US was serious and to get inspections started again.

I also think it is PHONEY for people who weren't actually faced with that decision to suggest that they would have done differently. Keeping in mind that only 1 Republican Senator voted against the bill and 6 Republican Congressman.

Bernie Sanders has a legitimate right to hammer Hillary on the vote Trump does not and neither did Obama. Trump's suggestion that he never supported the Iraq war has been proven to be a lie. That it was a little wishy washy suggests he really didn't have a clue. Probably, because he didn't know what side was most personally beneficial.

Typical Trump.

This all pre-supposes that opposition to the Iraq war was a GOOD thing.

Is that the position of the GOP right now? That the invasion of Iraq was wrong?

Because, if not, then why are the republicans acting like it's a feature of their candidate that he opposed the war?

 

[CapelDodger]

Trump's suggestion that he never supported the Iraq war has been proven to be a lie. That it was a little wishy washy suggests he really didn't have a clue. Probably, because he didn't know what side was most personally beneficial.

I doubt he'd paid any attention since it didn't directly impact him. When asked he felt compelled to say something so he blathered.

Typical Trump.

Yup.