Brexit: Now What? Part II

[ddt]

To instate (or re-instate) border checks, first I think you need to demonstrate that they'd be effective. In the case of borders in Benelux or between France and Benelux, France and Germany and so on there are so many crossings that, unless you build a wall all the way along the border, the "bad guys" will still slip through whilst law abiding travelers will be inconvenienced. even with a wall there's no guarantee of effectiveness.

You can trust Germans to have the expertise to build impenetrable border walls though. Or maybe a wall is overkill and just build an electric fence.

And on a serious note, to reinstate border checks would be very unpopular. Border checks between Netherlands and Belgium were abolished before I was born, and border checks with Germany a memory from my 20s, and mostly a memory for their hilariousness. Like that time the officer looked at my pouch of tobacco and asked if it's only tobacco. Yes sir, only tobacco. Really? Yes, really. Really? Yes, really really. OK, drive on.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Visegrad Group of EU states 'could veto Brexit deal'

A group of Central European EU members known as the Visegrad Four is ready to veto any Brexit deal that would limit people's right to work in the UK, Slovakian PM Robert Fico says.

In an interview with the Reuters news agency, Mr Fico said Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia would be uncompromising in negotiations.

His comments come a day after the EU's first major meeting without the UK.

Brexit, though not formally discussed, overshadowed*the Bratislava summit.

At the end of the summit, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker repeated that Britain could not achieve full access to the EU market that it would ideally like, if it closed off free immigration for EU citizens.

At the same news conference, Mr Fico underlined that he and other Central European leaders whose citizens make up much of the EU migrant population in Britain would not let those people become "second class citizens".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396805

 

[Klimax]

Visegrad Group of EU states 'could veto Brexit deal'



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396805

As I predicted that it will be our stance shortly after vote...

 

[CapelDodger]

As I predicted that it will be our stance shortly after vote...

"We are not going to provide a running commentary on these negotiations," said a British government spokesman when contacted by the BBC. "That approach won't help us get the best deal for Britain."

"Blah blah best deal for Britain blah blah blah best deal for Britain blah blah best deal for Britain ..."

Years of it in prospect. I'm past caring, frankly.

 

[Belgian thought]

You can trust Germans to have the expertise to build impenetrable border walls though. Or maybe a wall is overkill and just build an electric fence.

And on a serious note, to reinstate border checks would be very unpopular. Border checks between Netherlands and Belgium were abolished before I was born, and border checks with Germany a memory from my 20s, and mostly a memory for their hilariousness. Like that time the officer looked at my pouch of tobacco and asked if it's only tobacco. Yes sir, only tobacco. Really? Yes, really. Really? Yes, really really. OK, drive on.

Belgium - Dutch border checks.

i remember them. As kids, my mum made us hide in the back of the car, she was half Dutch.

Oh happy days.

I did take a peak once and noticed that the customs agents were sat in a box some metres away, no more passport control in a sense, just a look out.

Thanks for that ddt.

Happy memories of being an illegal traveller.

 

[ceptimus]

It's good that some EU countries are making it clear that they won't budge on free movement. That will speed up the negotiations - we can forget about being a part of the single market and move along straight away to negotiating the tariffs that will apply to goods and services.

 

[Amazer]

It's good that some EU countries are making it clear that they won't budge on free movement. That will speed up the negotiations - we can forget about being a part of the single market and move along straight away to negotiating the tariffs that will apply to goods and services.

Why bother... Just go with the regular WTO tariffs. That way you don't need to negotiate at all.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Klimax]

It's good that some EU countries are making it clear that they won't budge on free movement. That will speed up the negotiations - we can forget about being a part of the single market and move along straight away to negotiating the tariffs that will apply to goods and services.

While watching a lot of British economy vanishing...

 

[ceptimus]

I agree that regular WTO tariffs are a good starting point and would allow us to exit the EU quickly. I'm sure though that France, Germany, and some other countries will want to negotiate lower tariffs on their exports to us - and because all EU countries are shackled together and Germany is dominant, that will mean the whole of the EU will want to negotiate lower tariffs - maybe tariffs at 0%.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

... and border checks with Germany a memory from my 20s, and mostly a memory for their hilariousness. Like that time the officer looked at my pouch of tobacco and asked if it's only tobacco. Yes sir, only tobacco. Really? Yes, really. Really? Yes, really really. OK, drive on.

I started rolling my own cigarettes back in the mid 70s. I got pulled over one time in Annapolis, MD (as near as I can tell for 'driving with long hair') and the officer saw the hand-rolled cigarette butts in my ashtray.

He was immediately mesmerized by them, and convinced that they were marijuana. I handed him the ashtray and let him inspect, smell, and tear them apart. I showed him my pouch of store bought hand-roll tobacco, and even told him the name of the local tobacconist where I bought it.

With great reluctance and obvious trepidation he let me drive off.

There is a punchline. The entire time I was being subjected to his keen and hawk-like powers of observation I was sitting there with the end of a one ounce baggie of herb sticking out of my shirt pocket.

Heavy sigh of relief.

 

[The Don]

I agree that regular WTO tariffs are a good starting point and would allow us to exit the EU quickly. I'm sure though that France, Germany, and some other countries will want to negotiate lower tariffs on their exports to us - and because all EU countries are shackled together and Germany is dominant, that will mean the whole of the EU will want to negotiate lower tariffs - maybe tariffs at 0%.

IMO a red herring, it's access to the EU for services (especially financial services) which is the real prize for the UK and one where the EU will be reluctant to give ground

 

[catsmate]

Visegrad Group of EU states 'could veto Brexit deal'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396805

I saw that, interesting but not unexpected. So the UK will have to either accept free movement, accept massive economic disruption or buy them off somehow.

Belgium - Dutch border checks.

i remember them. As kids, my mum made us hide in the back of the car, she was half Dutch.

Oh happy days.

I did take a peak once and noticed that the customs agents were sat in a box some metres away, no more passport control in a sense, just a look out.

Thanks for that ddt.

Happy memories of being an illegal traveller.

Why? Don't the Dutch allow children into their country?

While watching a lot of British economy vanishing...

Exactly.

IMO a red herring, it's access to the EU for services (especially financial services) which is the real prize for the UK and one where the EU will be reluctant to give ground

Not to some people with their fixation in manufacturing.

 

[ceptimus]

IMO a red herring, it's access to the EU for services (especially financial services) which is the real prize for the UK and one where the EU will be reluctant to give ground

That's where our negotiators should focus: "Okay, we'll agree to x% tariffs on goods if you agree to y% tariffs on services..."

 

[angrysoba]

"Blah blah best deal for Britain blah blah blah best deal for Britain blah blah best deal for Britain ..."

Years of it in prospect. I'm past caring, frankly.

As with Donald Trump's secret plans to defeat ISIS, Theresa May's secret plan for making Britain Great Again - through a Top Secret negotiating strategy - can't be aired lest Johnny Foreigner gets wind of it.

But after it is negotiated everyone will be so stunned that we'll all get tired of winning. Just you wait!

 

[Andy_Ross]

A number of Tory Backbenchers have formed a group called 'Leave Means Leave' to pressure May un to a fast and hard exit. They want the UK out as quickly as possible with no single market, and an end to the free movement of people.

European Council President Donald Tusk said Mrs May had told him the UK could be ready to begin talks by February. but Mays office would not confirm Mr Tusk's account and say no discussions have taken place with him or anyone else.

Ukip MEP Gerard Batten, one of the party's founding members says Article 50 a "trap" to stop us leaving the EU
He says the "obscure and ill-defined method of leaving the EU as described in the Lisbon Treaty is a complete red herring, If the European Council or Parliament rejects the final agreement we're back to square one."

He says Article 50 was "created deliberately and precisely in order to delay and prevent any country actually leaving, Article 50 is a trap. Ukip secured the referendum, now we must keep up the pressure by rejecting Article 50 and demanding that we leave as quickly as possible.
If we don't do that we may find we never leave at all. Ukip was right about leaving the EU and we are right about this."

So unilateral withdrawal, no negotiations, no trade deals.

 

[Craig B]

A number of Tory Backbenchers have formed a group called 'Leave Means Leave' to pressure May un to a fast and hard exit. They want the UK out as quickly as possible with no single market, and an end to the free movement of people. [respectful snip] So unilateral withdrawal, no negotiations, no trade deals.

The Daily Telegraph report is revealing.

The group argues that remaining in the single market would be a mistake after leaving the EU because this would mean the UK would still be bound to accept unlimited numbers of migrants, while British companies would all have to abide by Brussels law.​

It can't be stressed to hard or too often that Brexit is about xenophobia and about abolishing restraints imposed by EU employment and environmental protection regulations.

 

[ceptimus]

You can stress it as hard and as often as you like.

Brexit is about leaving a corrupt, undemocratic, lumbering organisation. It's about not having to pay membership fees to that organisation and regaining control of our borders and our law-making system.

 

[Klimax]

A number of Tory Backbenchers have formed a group called 'Leave Means Leave' to pressure May un to a fast and hard exit. They want the UK out as quickly as possible with no single market, and an end to the free movement of people.

European Council President Donald Tusk said Mrs May had told him the UK could be ready to begin talks by February. but Mays office would not confirm Mr Tusk's account and say no discussions have taken place with him or anyone else.

Ukip MEP Gerard Batten, one of the party's founding members says Article 50 a "trap" to stop us leaving the EU
He says the "obscure and ill-defined method of leaving the EU as described in the Lisbon Treaty is a complete red herring, If the European Council or Parliament rejects the final agreement we're back to square one."

He says Article 50 was "created deliberately and precisely in order to delay and prevent any country actually leaving, Article 50 is a trap. Ukip secured the referendum, now we must keep up the pressure by rejecting Article 50 and demanding that we leave as quickly as possible.
If we don't do that we may find we never leave at all. Ukip was right about leaving the EU and we are right about this."

So unilateral withdrawal, no negotiations, no trade deals.

How one can tell their reading comprehesion is atrocious and tehir knowledeg of A50 is nonexistent. There is no such thing as back to square one. They appear to not even know about strict time limit and that it is not affected by rejection of proposal...

Bloody hell, it is not massive article. How can they get so much wrong? One would think they at least bothered to understand most important thing of their goals...

 

[Klimax]

You can stress it as hard and as often as you like.

Brexit is about leaving a corrupt, undemocratic, lumbering organisation. It's about not having to pay membership fees to that organisation and regaining control of our borders and our law-making system.

Repeating missinformation and wrongness is just wrong you know. So when did Britain join Shenghen again?


But then, what to expect of Brexiters then to lie about everything because truth would torpedoe their entire premise and reason for existence...

 

[CapelDodger]

Along with the xenophobia and contempt for regulations comes something else: the maintenance of the proper social order.

In the large pond that is Europe the fact that a chap is from the right sort of family and went to the right sort of public school cuts very little ice. In the tiny shallow pond that is the UK, family background is the dominant life-defining factor for all but a very talented or lucky few.

May seems to think that grammar schools will fix that as she thinks they did for her, but in fact the social mobility of the post-War to Thatcherite period relied on many other factors which are being, or have been, eliminated. My parents were aspirational working-class and did very well for themselves and our family in circumstances that made it possible. Free University education, for instance. We won't be having any more of that sort of thing, thank you very much.

If I were of my nepots' generation I'd be getting out. Brittany would be my first choice.