Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Stacyhs]

As if any sensible person, let alone a court, takes into account what the DAILY MAIL thinks!

Here in the UK everybody knows it's the middle class equivalent of a tabloid comic. We thrive on the steady stream of 'illegal immigrants flooding into the country' in the same way a kiddie will thrive on what Roy of the Rovers will do next in BOY'S OWN. Nobody takes it seriously, it is pure entertainment.

As if Amanda and Raff were convicted on the word of Nick Pisa.

Hilarious!

Claiming that nobody takes the DM seriously is a false statement. During the Massei trial, prosecutors introduced the DM's horrendously inaccurate report of Knox's noise violation, "The Wild and Raunchy Past of Foxy Knoxy". They did so in order to present her as wild, out of control, and to impugn her character. So tell us all again how no one takes the crap in the DM seriously. Hilarious.

I agree that no "sensible person" gives any credence to the Daily Mail. But you give people more credit than most deserve for being "sensible". For example, sensible people understand that there was no "mixed blood", that negative TMB tests mean there was no blood, that dirty gloves filmed picking up and handing around a piece of evidence collected 6 weeks after the crime and unaccountably found across the room from its original location and under a rug makes it highly subject to contamination, that people cannot selectively clean up only their own invisible DNA, blood, and fingerprints, and that a knife used to stabbed a woman to death cannot be entirely cleaned of blood and still retain the DNA of the victim. Sensible people will understand all that.

I never said, nor implied, that Raffaele and Amanda were convicted on the word of Nick Pisa. What I am saying is that public opinion was biased against them by Pisa and journalists like him who published false and salacious information.

 

[bagels]

Lalli is a pathologist, not a specialist in knife trajectory. If you read Massei in this it gives you all the arguments. You will see why Massei preferred the expert evidence of one view over the other.

Your claim that premeditation is impossible is rubbish, no doubt based on a false claim that 'premeditation can only happen if there is a clear plan weeks in advance' (perhaps you can explain why Amanda tore out the pages in her diary for 31 October).

The Rome labs were perfectly adequate, efficient and effective. Even your heroes Conti & Vecchiotti had to admit it.

Even Raff mentions how large Amanda's bag is in his early statements to the police. If she can cart a mop around the streets, why would that rule out a knife?

Massei doesn't buy into the prosecution arguments about the knife. He basically concedes that the defense analysis is correct but since it's not entirely physically impossible the fatal gash was made by a larger knife, the kitchen knife can't be excluded. This is basically his approach to the entire case actually and why all observers agreed the verdict would be overturned on appeal and the students would be acquitted - which is what actually happened.

Premeditation is not plausible, which is why it was never argued by any of the prosecutors in any of the trials, and why Massei invented the absurd idea that Amanda carried this two handed broadsword around in her purse everywhere she went.

The knife is not a salvageable piece of evidence and DNA is the least of the reasons why.

 

[Stacyhs]

Lalli is a pathologist, not a specialist in knife trajectory. If you read Massei in this it gives you all the arguments. You will see why Massei preferred the expert evidence of one view over the other.

Your claim that premeditation is impossible is rubbish, no doubt based on a false claim that 'premeditation can only happen if there is a clear plan weeks in advance' (perhaps you can explain why Amanda tore out the pages in her diary for 31 October).
The Rome labs were perfectly adequate, efficient and effective. Even your heroes Conti & Vecchiotti had to admit it.

Even Raff mentions how large Amanda's bag is in his early statements to the police. If she can cart a mop around the streets, why would that rule out a knife?

In her book, Amanda wrote the pages of her diary were torn out by a cellmate, Ossa, who thought she was writing negative things about her. But let me guess; this is just a lie, right? But then again, you have no evidence it didn't happen and believing Amanda did it for nefarious reasons fits your confirmation bias.

 

[bagels]

Amanda psychically communicated to Guede to show up at the cottage - before she even knew she would be free from work that night, which is why Guede the burglar was snooping around the cottage on CCTV before the rape orgy could possibly be planned. He definitely wasn't scouting a burglary target. It's genius, I can't believe she wasn't charged with premeditation

 

[Methos]

In her book, Amanda wrote the pages of her diary were torn out by a cellmate, Ossa, who thought she was writing negative things about her. But let me guess; this is just a lie, right? But then again, you have no evidence it didn't happen and believing Amanda did it for nefarious reasons fits your confirmation bias.

Those were the pages she was writing in prison much later.

The missing pages from the end of October 2007 are IIRC an invention from Follain maybe based on things Sarzanini wrote...

The thing is, that apparently Amanda Knox used that "notebook" also for college exercises and homework to be handed in (like that "letter" about "wanting my mom to take me shopping" the teacher sold to the press...)

So in effect the "missing pages" mean nothing and I guess she simply had better things to do than diary writing at the end of October

 

[Vixen]

You're still tragically unable to understand this:

The nature and quality of the forensic evidence against Guede was completely different from the forensic evidence against Knox or Sollecito.

I'll write that again, so that you might finally grasp it:

The nature and quality of the forensic evidence against Guede was completely different from the forensic evidence against Knox or Sollecito.

In Guede's case, the forensic evidence which was/is so utterly (and correctly) damning is: 1) his DNA in/around Kercher's genital area (and remember, this DNA was collected and analysed by a totally different team than not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni); 2) his palm print in Kercher's blood on a pillow case underneath Kercher's body (which reliably places Guede in time and space at the scene of the murder); 3) his shoe prints, made in Kercher's blood, in the hallway and on the pillow case under the body (which, let's remember, the incompetent police "experts" initially mis-matched to Sollecito's trainers until a pre-teen girl showed them how embarrassingly wrong they were....). When all of the above is married with Guede's own (bogus) version of events and the evidence of Guede out dancing in the bars and clubs of central Perugia within hours of the murder (having claimed in his version that he was in huge fear of the "real killers"), his guilt is entirely assured.

So, one more time:

The nature of the forensic evidence against Guede was completely different from the forensic evidence against Knox or Sollecito.

I'll trust that you won't again try to employ the ignorant and misleading canard that, in the eyes of pro-acquittal commentators, "the forensic scientific evidence is bent and unreliable for Amanda and Raff yet solid proof for Rudy".

And who do you think killed Madeleine McCann, if (as one would be justified in presuming) you think the cadaver dogs reliably picked up indications of a corpse in the McCanns' rental car? This should be interesting! Even contemptible perhaps!

No, it's tragic that you wilfully overlook that there were just four samples of Rudy DNA found, yet no less than FIVE mixed DNA samples of Amanda's with Mez' blood. These DNA samples were collected at the same time, by the same team and analysed at the same lab as the kids'.

As no-one has ever been charged, and thus there has never been a trial, I have no opinion one way or the other as to whether the McCanns are involved in Maddie's disappearance. So much for your assumptions. Assume makes an ASS out of U and me.

However, it is an objective scientific fact that cadaver dogs indicated the presence of a human cadaver in eleven different locations at the scene, including the back of the McCann's hire car. It doesn't look like good news, but that's not a rational reason for ignoring it. Cadaver dogs are entirely objective.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda psychically communicated to Guede to show up at the cottage - before she even knew she would be free from work that night, which is why Guede the burglar was snooping around the cottage on CCTV before the rape orgy could possibly be planned. He definitely wasn't scouting a burglary target. It's genius, I can't believe she wasn't charged with premeditation

You do know Amanda and Rudy were in the Old Town at the same time earlier in the day. And what do we find? Amanda carefully avoiding any mention of having been there. Raff himself in his earliest police statement claimed he came home alone from the old town. And what a coincidence Kokomani happened to be at the cottage to witness the three of them there, he claims, behind the bins lying in wait for 'a friend'.

 

[Vixen]

Those were the pages she was writing in prison much later.

The missing pages from the end of October 2007 are IIRC an invention from Follain maybe based on things Sarzanini wrote...

The thing is, that apparently Amanda Knox used that "notebook" also for college exercises and homework to be handed in (like that "letter" about "wanting my mom to take me shopping" the teacher sold to the press...)

So in effect the "missing pages" mean nothing and I guess she simply had better things to do than diary writing at the end of October

It possibly said something on the lines of:

'Everybody's going out and having fun
I'm just a fool for staying home and having none
I can't get over how Meredith ssnubbed me oh oh lonesome me

A bad mistake I'm making by just hanging round
I know that I should have some fun and paint the town
I thought of everything from A to Z oh lonesome me

I'll bet she's not like me she's out and fancy free
Flirtin' with the boys with all her charms
Oh I hate her so, she's everything I'm not
Raff's at home studying for his IT
<fx a few chords on the harp>
Oh oh lonesome me.'

 

[bagels]

You do know Amanda and Rudy were in the Old Town at the same time earlier in the day. And what do we find? Amanda carefully avoiding any mention of having been there. Raff himself in his earliest police statement claimed he came home alone from the old town. And what a coincidence Kokomani happened to be at the cottage to witness the three of them there, he claims, behind the bins lying in wait for 'a friend'.

Your friend Koko is a criminal who was near the crime scene around the time of the crime and fled the country after the crime. He definitely wasn't investigated enough IMO.

 

[Methos]

No, it's tragic that you wilfully overlook that there were just four samples of Rudy DNA found, yet no less than FIVE mixed DNA samples of Amanda's with Mez' blood. These DNA samples were collected at the same time, by the same team and analysed at the same lab as the kids'.

[...]

...and how many samples of DNA (mixed or not) would you expect from:

a) a housmate on the surfaces of the shared house

or

b) someone completely unrelated to the apartment on:
- the sleeve of the victims tracksuit top (the adidas jacket)
- on the victims bra near the place the famous clasp is missing
- on the outside of her purse (with the inside never tested
- inside the victims body

Well, I guess quality beats quantity here...

 

[LondonJohn]

It possibly said something on the lines of:

'Everybody's going out and having fun
I'm just a fool for staying home and having none
I can't get over how Meredith ssnubbed me oh oh lonesome me

A bad mistake I'm making by just hanging round
I know that I should have some fun and paint the town
I thought of everything from A to Z oh lonesome me

I'll bet she's not like me she's out and fancy free
Flirtin' with the boys with all her charms
Oh I hate her so, she's everything I'm not
Raff's at home studying for his IT
<fx a few chords on the harp>
Oh oh lonesome me.'

Now, who was it that brought up the word "contemptible"......?

 

[Vixen]

...and how many samples of DNA (mixed or not) would you expect from:

a) a housmate on the surfaces of the shared house

or

b) someone completely unrelated to the apartment on:
- the sleeve of the victims tracksuit top (the adidas jacket)
- on the victims bra near the place the famous clasp is missing
- on the outside of her purse (with the inside never tested
- inside the victims body

Well, I guess quality beats quantity here...

Amanda herself dated her blood on the faucet to 1 Nov. As her DNA was mixed in in an even higher quantity than Mez' indicates she was bleeding at the same time. This is police opinion.

Frequenting the cottage doesn't explain Raff's footprint in Mez' blood on the bathmat, and nor indeed the couple's clear luminol footprints indicating the pair waded in Mez' blood.

 

[Mr Fied]

Amanda psychically communicated to Guede to show up at the cottage - before she even knew she would be free from work that night, which is why Guede the burglar was snooping around the cottage on CCTV before the rape orgy could possibly be planned. He definitely wasn't scouting a burglary target. It's genius, I can't believe she wasn't charged with premeditation

Even more evidence of premeditation.

Amanda was so incensed at having all of the texts she bombarded Meredith with on Halloween ignored, she hacked into the Vodafone database and erased all records of them.

She also removed all records of the calls between her and Guede, that set up the meeting.

She also managed to get an identical stand in, to be at Raffs when Popovic (sp?) called, so that she could be at the cottage to let Guede in.

And all the research so she knew how to shower just enough to rid herself of all the blood from the murder, but not enough to remove the smell of sex or an alley cat was just pure genius.

 

[Methos]

It possibly said something on the lines of:

'Everybody's going out and having fun
I'm just a fool for staying home and having none
I can't get over how Meredith ssnubbed me oh oh lonesome me

A bad mistake I'm making by just hanging round
I know that I should have some fun and paint the town
I thought of everything from A to Z oh lonesome me

I'll bet she's not like me she's out and fancy free
Flirtin' with the boys with all her charms
Oh I hate her so, she's everything I'm not
Raff's at home studying for his IT
<fx a few chords on the harp>
Oh oh lonesome me.'

Nice try on poetry, but to say it with the signature of The Machine on PMF.org:
"What we've got here is failure to communicate."

 

[bagels]

Amanda herself dated her blood on the faucet to 1 Nov. As her DNA was mixed in in an even higher quantity than Mez' indicates she was bleeding at the same time. This is police opinion.

Frequenting the cottage doesn't explain Raff's footprint in Mez' blood on the bathmat, and nor indeed the couple's clear luminol footprints indicating the pair waded in Mez' blood.

Yeah that woulda been overwhelming evidence in most jurisdictions but Raff got his mafia buddies to bribe/threaten the judges so it was np

 

[acbytesla]

Oh dear. One academic research paper looking into the effects of doghandler expectations which stacyhs has tried to extrapolate into the wider vocational world to condemn all dog sniffers and handlers.

If you are unable to understand an academic paper within the perspective, proportionality and context of how to eliminate error, then I can't help you.

LJ asking you for help with science would be like Magnus Carlson asking you for help with chess.

 

[Vixen]

LJ asking you for help with science would be like Magnus Carlson asking you for help with chess.

That really sticks in your craw, eh .

 

[acbytesla]

That really sticks in your craw, eh .

No, it amuses me. It's called irony.

 

[Vixen]

No, it amuses me. It's called irony.

So glad.


'Little things please little minds' ~ Ovid

 

[NotEvenWrong]

'Little things please little minds' ~ Ovid

How was the latest episode of Real Housewives of New Jersey, Vixen?

Mind you, I had to admire that Italian woman in Real Housewives of NJ 'Teresa Giudice', tipping over that table after someone insulted her family.