Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[Minoosh]

You'll need to show some stats to back that up. For example, did Trump do better in states that Sanders was not a challenge to Clinton, thus freeing up Clinton supporters to cast spoiler votes?

Everyone knows Democrats vote twice ... at least

 

[slyjoe]

Lawrence O'Donnell has just called Trump "an unhinged lunatic" for saying tonight in a speech that he'd shoot those Iranian boats buzzing our boats in the Gulf out of the water.

NPR Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

From this article: WA Po: Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

It will be interesting to see how these statements are defended, either here or in real life.

 

[Minoosh]

Running the government is not like operating a sophisticated piece of machinery. It's like operating an infinitely complex system that no one person, or even group of people, could possibly understand. It is better to have a know-nothing in there than somebody who thinks he knows what he's doing and has the political support to do almost anything he wants.

So the U.S. government is "irreducibly complex," therefore an ignoramus is better than someone with experience in government who has worked within the system. If that's the case we might as well pick presidents by lottery. In fact a lottery-selected candidate would be preferable to anyone with experience in government who has worked with Congress etc., etc.

It's not a very strong argument, IMO.

I'm starting to get really worried about Trump becoming President.

I go to 538 every day to make myself feel better, but even that isn't helping anymore.

Somebody make me feel better and tell me he's not going to win..

Assuming you're serious: No, I don't think he'll win. As seen above one recent strategy is to paint all "outsiders" as preferable to any "insider," but I don't think it's going to work. There's a reason you don't hear many people talking about Trump's positives: There really aren't any. He doesn't tell it like it is, he isn't a self-made billionaire, he's not an evangelical, he doesn't treat people fairly, he doesn't have any government experience, he doesn't have longtime allies (and even adversaries) speaking in support of him, he doesn't contribute to charity, etc. There is plenty of time left for people to ponder ... why vote for him? And the only possible answer is "Hillary is bad" or "Democrats are bad."

I don't think Trump can win on negative arguments alone. This is of course not scientific but I think people are catching on that virtually no one at this point is saying anything positive about Trump. Why would that be? Meanwhile Clinton has cultivated many constituencies that taken together easily form a plurality of the popular vote and the lion's share of electoral votes.

 

[Minoosh]

I believe there is a list. I just don't believe Trump had it with him when he took the stage and pulled out a paper.

Apologies if asked and answered but has anyone vetted that list?

 

[quadraginta]

How does planting a yard sign help your candidate to get elected? All it amounts to is virtue signaling.

What a truly bizarre conceit.

Is this "virtue signalling" limited to yard signs? What about bumper stickers? Campaign buttons? Attending the candidate's speaking events?

Is any public expression of support for the candidate of your choice "virtue signalling"? Or is it somehow limited to yard signs?

What about responding to an exit poll?

Is this also true of conservatives who publicly express their support for the candidate of their choice? Or is it limited to liberals and progressives?

What I think you have is just another empty, amorphous pejorative which itself is a form of signalling the virtue of your own political and social predilections to others of similar inclinations. Just like using the worn-out phrase "social justice warriors". A dog whistle.

I guess "SJW" has been over-used, and doesn't provide the same sense of smug superiority and self-congratulation any more.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Apologies if asked and answered but has anyone vetted that list?

Meet Donald Trump's 88 military advisers

PolitiFact took the list of retired military commanders supporting Trump and provided links to background about the personal and military history.

Here's one:

83. Brigadier General Charles Jones, US Air Force, Retired -- supported efforts to determine if Barack Obama was a citizen of Indonesia and/or Kenya

They are all retired and a random check of 6 of them found them all born between 1930 and 1940

 

[quadraginta]

We should catalog every known Trump lie. Small or large whatever. I'll create a thread.

Is one thread enough?

The topic might warrant a sub-forum all its own.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

So Trumpster's latest is to make the "factual" claim that HC could publicly assassinate someone and not be arrested, oddly the same claim he made for himself as a boast (i.e., would not lose his supporters).

At this juncture, sorry, anyone voting Trump, without the excuse of extreme coercion or a sub 80 IQ, is criminally insane, has a plan to round up and shoot non-white non-Christians, or, in the case of the majority of his business supporters, smells the wonderful aroma of graft, free dumping of toxic waste, unrestricted policies of any kind, and bad faith. Hannity in particular has entirely lost it, wandering about in La-la land making up factoids, but then again, he already falls into the sub-80 category.

 

[The Don]

Equally likely, in my opinion, is that an undecided vote gets annoyed at seeing yard signs and votes against the most ubiquitous ones out of spite. That's what I would do probably, if I were ever undecided about anything.

The effort that political campaigns around the world make to get posters, yard signs, buttons, bumper stickers and other items naming the candidates prominently displayed leads me to think that your opinion is atypical.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Meet Donald Trump's 88 military advisers

Here's one:
They are all retired and a random check of 6 of them found them all born between 1930 and 1940

I did a not-so-random check. The first 22 names on the list.... because 2 had no information I could locate and I wanted a clean, rounded-up 20. Seventy Per Cent born in the 30s. Thirty per cent from the 40s. Zero per cent on "early retirement".... e.g. born in the 50s.

Yep, it's like a GOP Dream Voter Book..... Old White Guys.

 

[Puppycow]

Mike Pence gives us a reminder:

Mike Pence Releases His Tax Returns; Donald Trump Still Won't

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, the Republican candidate for vice president, did something his running mate, Donald Trump, declines to do. He released his tax returns dating back 10 years.

The numbers show that Pence has earned a relatively modest average income of $160,000 since 2006. During that time he has served as governor and as a member of the U.S. House. His best year was 2009 when his adjusted gross income was $187,495. In 2013, his AGI was $119,862.

Gov. Pence and his wife, Karen, donated about 8 percent of their incomes to charity. Their effective state and federal tax rate ranged from a high of 16.4 percent in 2014 to a low of 10.39 per cent a year earlier.

In his financial disclosure form here, Pence lists his main asset as his defined benefit pension from the state of Indiana, valued at between $500,000 and $1,000,000. Details of his tax returns are available here.

Sounds pretty normal. Nothing much to see here but the contrast with the top of the ticket.

 

[catsmate]

Good article about the many scandals of Donald Trump. Sounds like he's the one who should be in jail.

It's amazing to compare the anti-Hillary nuts desperately raking up anything to try and smear her, to the very real scandals that lurk in the Trumpet's past, and present.

 

[Stacko]

Lawrence O'Donnell has just called Trump "an unhinged lunatic" for saying tonight in a speech that he'd shoot those Iranian boats buzzing our boats in the Gulf out of the water.

NPR Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

From this article: WA Po: Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

Sure, let's give this man nuclear weapons. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

 

[sunmaster14]

The effort that political campaigns around the world make to get posters, yard signs, buttons, bumper stickers and other items naming the candidates prominently displayed leads me to think that your opinion is atypical.

In the case of elections where name recognition is an issue (e.g. local school board), then it almost certainly does help. For 3rd parties, it also helps. For the Democratic and Republican candidates in a Presidential election, I doubt it does. Everybody knows the names already, and a sign simply can't do much except remind people of names of candidates.

Presidential campaigns don't spend anything more than a de minimis amount on yard signs as a percentage of the total budget. It's probably more just a way of giving their supporters something to do. Or for ginning up enthusiasm among those same supporters. In that sense, I suppose it is helpful to a campaign, but I still don't believe that putting a sign on your lawn for Hillary has any positive influence on her winning probability.

 

[sunmaster14]

What a truly bizarre conceit.

Is this "virtue signalling" limited to yard signs? What about bumper stickers? Campaign buttons? Attending the candidate's speaking events?

No. Yes, virtue signaling. Yes, virtue signaling. No, attending a candidate's rally has its own rewards, in addition to adding energy to a candidate's rally that creates an impression that the candidate is dynamic and knows how to attract a crowd.

Is any public expression of support for the candidate of your choice "virtue signalling"? Or is it somehow limited to yard signs?

No, not any. Just ones that have no point other than to signal your "virtuous" choice of a candidate. Certainly not limited to yard signs or bumper stickers, but those are the most obvious examples.

What about responding to an exit poll?

No.

Is this also true of conservatives who publicly express their support for the candidate of their choice? Or is it limited to liberals and progressives?

Of course, what a silly question. And, no, of course not.

What I think you have is just another empty, amorphous pejorative which itself is a form of signalling the virtue of your own political and social predilections to others of similar inclinations. Just like using the worn-out phrase "social justice warriors". A dog whistle.

Like TubbaBlubba, you are really stretching the meaning of virtue signaling. Pointing out that something is mostly about virtue signaling is not virtue signaling itself. It's called explanation and argument.

I guess "SJW" has been over-used, and doesn't provide the same sense of smug superiority and self-congratulation any more.

Whatever. Of course no good debate in USA Politics could possibly happen without personal attacks along the way.

 

[sunmaster14]

Virtue signalling apparent.

That was bragging, not virtue signaling. Virtue signaling is more subtle. It provides plausible deniability that what you were really doing was bragging.

 

[phiwum]

Lawrence O'Donnell has just called Trump "an unhinged lunatic" for saying tonight in a speech that he'd shoot those Iranian boats buzzing our boats in the Gulf out of the water.

NPR Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

From this article: WA Po: Trump: Iranian boats that make improper ‘gestures’ will be ‘shot out of the water’

The best part is that in the same rally, he called Hillary "trigger-happy".

It used to be that, if one said Donald was X, then he would immediately say Hillary is X. Now he's being preemptive. He says something that shows he is trigger-happy, and he calls Hillary trigger-happy before anyone can call him that.

 

[sunmaster14]

The best part is that in the same rally, he called Hillary "trigger-happy".

It used to be that, if one said Donald was X, then he would immediately say Hillary is X. Now he's being preemptive. He says something that shows he is trigger-happy, and he calls Hillary trigger-happy before anyone can call him that.

In this particular case, I don't think attacking Iranian boats which are intentionally getting too close to a US ship is being trigger-happy at all. It is the right policy, and has soon as it is implemented, Iranian boats will keep a proper distance.

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

Meet Donald Trump's 88 military advisers

Here's one:
They are all retired and a random check of 6 of them found them all born between 1930 and 1940

88? Interesting number since among white supremacists (Trump's happy supporters) "88" stands for "HH", ie, "Heil Hitler." Probably a coincidence, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Ladewig]

Has anyone asked Trump if he would want the US ships to stop and pull survivors out of the water?