Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[Crossbow]

The FBI report that was released the Friday before a holiday weekend (natch). Discussion should be in the Clinton email thread, not here. The fact that the FBI is trying to help out Hillary by releasing the report at a time designed to get the least publicity possible is probably worth discussing in a brand new thread.

I am sure that no matter what the FBI would say about Clinton and/or when the FBI would say anything about Clinton, then you would still be bitching about Clinton.

 

[NoahFence]

I will bite. How is Harvard a scam?

Its not.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12

 

[sunmaster14]

I will bite. How is Harvard a scam?

It costs $60,000 per year to go there, and the only courses where you get taught by high profile professors who care about their teaching are courses with hundreds of students in a big lecture hall. Most of the professors are more interested in their research than undergraduate teaching. Regardless, what are they even giving the students except 2 or 3 lectures a week, when you could get similar (and better) lectures on the web for free? The recitation sections are taught by graduate students, many of whom don't even speak English very well.

Harvard (and many other schools) allow you to graduate majoring in something stupid, taking nothing courses the whole way. At the end of four years, you are pretty much four years older but not any more mature in any way. In fact, you are have probably regressed because of how the administration stresses the importance of being inclusive and not offending anybody and allowing every student their safe spaces. So students have learned that there are certain kinds of speech which is off-limits and that one of the most effective forms of debate is to say that you've been offended.

A Harvard degree is supposed to mean something, but in fact it means very little. Mostly it means that you got into Harvard, which is far, far harder to do than actually graduating with an A average. Now, it's possible that the Harvard degree will get you in the door in certain places, and perhaps that's worth the $240,000 (plus four years of opportunity cost) price, but it's not how it advertises itself. Harvard purports to give you a good education, but in fact, it really doesn't.

 

[NoahFence]

You've never been to Harvard, and don't know anyone who has, have you?

I married one, and in so doing became the uncle of another.


They got in on MERIT. That's how you get into Harvard.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And another thing for those who think President Trump should get rid of US debt by defaulting:

That's not for the President to decide, it's the job of Congress.

And what do you think are the odds of any President getting sufficient backing from fiscal conservatives for that? Is it likely that the GOP wants to go down in history as the party that let America go bust?

 

[sunmaster14]

You've never been to Harvard, and don't know anyone who has, have you?

How perceptive of you. Actually, I went there for both college and graduate school. My wife went there. My sister-in-law and her husband. Probably 50% of everybody I know went there or is affiliated in some way. I'm up to my eyeballs in Harvard. Which is one of the reasons I know it's a pretty scammy place. The best reason for going there is to be with the best and the brightest. The second best is for the prestige. Other than that, it's nothing special. And, yes, I think college in general is a scam. Harvard's probably a bit more scammy then the average elite school because it cares less about its undergraduates and shifts more of its teaching load onto adjuncts and graduate students.

I married one, and in so doing became the uncle of another.


They got in on MERIT. That's how you get into Harvard.

No, about 40% of the kids get in on academic merit. The other 60% get in on some combination of athletic ability, other extracurriculars, being unique in some way, or being a legacy, or a child of some high profile person. I have no idea how good a student Malia Obama was, but I also have no doubt that she would have gotten in regardless of how crappy her grades or test scores were.

 

[acbytesla]

Also, why do people think that bankruptcies are bad? They're a part of doing business and taking risk. A developer who hasn't had projects go bankrupt is probably not being aggressive enough.

BOLLOCKS!
Bankruptcies are horrible. They are evidence of ineptitude and often criminal behavior. Taking a risk means you didn't make as much money as you expected or you lost money. It's not saying telling a judge "hey, sorry judge we're total losers and please make all these other people pay for our screw ups.

 

[acbytesla]

How perceptive of you. Actually, I went there for both college and graduate school. My wife went there. My sister-in-law and her husband. Probably 50% of everybody I know went there or is affiliated in some way. I'm up to my eyeballs in Harvard. Which is one of the reasons I know it's a pretty scammy place. The best reason for going there is to be with the best and the brightest. The second best is for the prestige. Other than that, it's nothing special. And, yes, I think college in general is a scam. Harvard's probably a bit more scammy then the average elite school because it cares less about its undergraduates and shifts more of its teaching load onto adjuncts and graduate students.

No, about 40% of the kids get in on academic merit. The other 60% get in on some combination of athletic ability, other extracurriculars, being unique in some way, or being a legacy, or a child of some high profile person. I have no idea how good a student Malia Obama was, but I also have no doubt that she would have gotten in regardless of how crappy her grades or test scores were.

I'm pretty sure you're lying about all of it.

 

[sunmaster14]

BOLLOCKS!
Bankruptcies are horrible. They are evidence of ineptitude and often criminal behavior. Taking a risk means you didn't make as much money as you expected or you lost money. It's not saying telling a judge "hey, sorry judge we're total losers and please make all these other people pay for our screw ups.

[SNIP] Bankruptcy is a natural and healthy part of capitalism. It's why we have such a rich and developed bankruptcy code. Almost every business eventually goes bankrupt. It's almost as inevitable as death for a human being. Bankruptcy provides an ordered mechanism of making the best use of the corpse.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12

 

[sunmaster14]

I'm pretty sure you're lying about all of it.

Would you like to bet?

 

[NoahFence]

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12

Bankruptcy is a natural and healthy part of capitalism. It's why we have such a rich and developed bankruptcy code. Almost every business eventually goes bankrupt. It's almost as inevitable as death for a human being. Bankruptcy provides an ordered mechanism of making the best use of the corpse.

Baloney. If it was a natural and healthy part of capitalism, why is it code for "loser"?

Trump's bankruptcies hurt many, many, MANY people. None of which are named "Trump" by the way. This is by his design. Most people who file for bankruptcy are devastated by doing it. It ruins your name for life.
And no, not "almost every business goes bankrupt. That's a patently absurd yet completely typical statement from Drumpfs moronic supporters. It's absurd.

But please, continue to defend this indefensible piece of ****. It's hilarious.

 

[Stacko]

The jury is still out on Trump University, literally. Was it a scam of some sort? Probably. So is Harvard University, by the way.

Please provide evidence that Trump University was a real university. Without that this is just failed false equivalence.

 

[Frank Newgent]

I really dislike the fake Trump tweet generators. The guy says enough ridiculous crap on his own without this ******** spreading like wildfire.

 

[NoahFence]

..And in other shocking news it seems Drumpf is flip-flopping on his hard line stance on immigration.
Again.

How does his pinheaded followers keep track? I mean, they're not the brightest bunch to begin with.
I suppose they don't have an original thought in that vacuum between their ears, so they just go with the flow?

 

[sunmaster14]

Baloney. If it was a natural and healthy part of capitalism, why is it code for "loser"?

Not among finance professionals it's not.

Trump's bankruptcies hurt many, many, MANY people. None of which are named "Trump" by the way. This is by his design. Most people who file for bankruptcy are devastated by doing it. It ruins your name for life.

Are you talking about personal bankruptcy? Because Trump has never filed for that as far as I know. Bankrupt corporations are no big deal at all, especially in the casino industry which is extremely volatile. Almost all casino debt is high yield because casinos are extraordinarily sensitive to the business cycle, as well as changes in governmental regulation (which can easily create intense competition out of thin air - as, for example, the rise of gambling on Indian land provided).

And no, not "almost every business goes bankrupt. That's a patently absurd yet completely typical statement from Drumpfs moronic supporters. It's absurd.

It's not absurd. As society advances, old technologies and business models become obsolete. Not every business can remake itself time and again, nor would it even be optimal to do so. If a business has a 1% chance of going bankrupt each year, and over 95% of businesses have greater than that probability, then it is mathematically inevitable that 95% of them will eventually go bankrupt. It's just a matter of time.

 

[The Don]

I'm loving the eye-roll from somebody who probably doesn't understand the first thing about finance.

Well I'm clearly too cautious a businessperson because I've managed to start and run a successful and highly profitable business for just over 13 years now.

If Brexit goes as badly as I suspect then I'll likely join Donald J Trump in having a failed business on my hands but at least mine will pay the staff and creditors all they are due before we pull down the shutters.

It's not just one way of looking at it. It's the right way. Bankruptcies tell you nothing in and of themselves. You have to look at why the bankruptcies happen.

Yes, and in Donald Trump's case it seems to be a combination of utter incompetence, leaping into markets he neither knows nor understands and being unwilling or unable to listen to those who could offer sage advice.

It's not a question of stiffing the banks. It's a question of contractual duties versus fiduciary ones. You have no fiduciary duties to your lenders. Only contractual ones. His projects are charged very high interest, by the way, because his projects are risky (as most real estate developments are). If you charge 10% over the risk free rate, and 10% of the projects go bankrupt, and you get 50 cents on the dollar recovery on those that do go bankrupt, you're still making money as a lender, on average. In fact, you're doing great since the bankrupt properties might have paid several years of interest and paid down some principal before they went bankrupt. And the ones that did well became nice little annuities, with the prospect of ancillary lending business as well. You make it sound like the Trump took advantage of his lenders. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I don't know actually. But it's likely that it was a symbiotic relationship, and both sides made money on average and over the long run.

The long list of banks that refuse to lend to him is an indication that they do not consider him a good risk. Look at the timelines for his bankruptcies, they were not "nice little earners" for the lenders.

In the case of the banks they get what they deserve. If their due diligence is insufficient then that's just too bad - although as band customers it's the likes of me and you who ultimately end up paying in the end because fees are higher and/or returns are lower.

No, the people who have really been burned by Trump are those small businesses who are unsecured creditors when another Trump venture goes under or the small businesses that Trump simply doesn't pay as part of his "business as usual" strategy.

Sure they almost always get a judgement through the courts and a lien placed on Trump's property but in the time all that happens the stress is considerable, many go out of business and they may still not get the court mandated sum - some businessman

The jury is still out on Trump University, literally. Was it a scam of some sort? Probably. So is Harvard University, by the way.

No, not even close. Harvard is nothing like the scam Trump University is claimed to be. At least at Harvard you get the tuition you paid for.

I disagree. That is exactly the kind of person I want. Our Presidents have been too cautious. We need somebody to shake up the system a bit.

It's one think "to shake up the system a bit", it's another thing completely to be reckless, irresponsible and incompetent which are all traits that Trump has shown in his business dealings.

 

[NoahFence]

Not among finance professionals it's not.



Are you talking about personal bankruptcy? Because Trump has never filed for that as far as I know. Bankrupt corporations are no big deal at all, especially in the casino industry which is extremely volatile. Almost all casino debt is high yield because casinos are extraordinarily sensitive to the business cycle, as well as changes in governmental regulation (which can easily create intense competition out of thin air - as, for example, the rise of gambling on Indian land provided).



It's not absurd. As society advances, old technologies and business models become obsolete. Not every business can remake itself time and again, nor would it even be optimal to do so. If a business has a 1% chance of going bankrupt each year, and over 95% of businesses have greater than that probability, then it is mathematically inevitable that 95% of them will eventually go bankrupt. It's just a matter of time.

Who gives a **** about employees, as long as those running the show get their money.

I get it.

I'm saying it's wrong, and only miserable creatures devoid of empathy can support such a business model. People like Trump.

 

[The Don]

It's not absurd. As society advances, old technologies and business models become obsolete. Not every business can remake itself time and again, nor would it even be optimal to do so. If a business has a 1% chance of going bankrupt each year, and over 95% of businesses have greater than that probability, then it is mathematically inevitable that 95% of them will eventually go bankrupt. It's just a matter of time.

Nope.

Most businesses end up being acquired in full or in part by another business or being "wound up". A lot of this is due to the fact that most businesses are partnerships or sole traders. When the principal or principals no longer wish to work then the business is wound up in and ordered way.

In the case of larger businesses, surprisingly few actually end up going bankrupt. Usually this is because even in the case where it's obsolete,. there's usually some residual value in the fixed assets, intellectual property or brand value of the business.

Then again I probably know nothing, running a business myself and being active in the local business community

 

[stanfr]

..And in other shocking news it seems Drumpf is flip-flopping on his hard line stance on immigration.
Again.

How does his pinheaded followers keep track? I mean, they're not the brightest bunch to begin with.
I suppose they don't have an original thought in that vacuum between their ears, so they just go with the flow?

His doublespeak strtegy is working, and it's brilliant. CNN now has Trump ahead of Clinton by 1%.

The key is the Independent voters, where the CNN poll shows him crushing Hillary. The Independents are smart enough to know that he won't really build a wall with Mexico's money, and deport 11 million people. They rationalize it by thinking 'he's just saying that to appease the ultra right'
The core supporters rationalize it by saying he is just trying to get the media off his back, but that he really will build the wall etc.
It's win-win for Trump.

I've been saying for months this would be a close election, even when polls had him down 12%. The reason it will be close is obvious in the latest CNN poll--the voters who are super enthusiatic about the election are the Trump supporters--they will come out and vote even if there is a major eathquake on election day. The other voters feel defeated already, so they are more likely to stay home.

There had better be better turnout in November than what the polls indicate, or we are screwed.

 

[pgwenthold]

I will bite. How is Harvard a scam?

So right now, the defense of Trump has turned into

1) Bankruptcies are good, and
2) Harvard is a scam, too