Merged Now What?

[The Don]

Sounds identical to the USA's work visa requirements.

Which are a nightmare if you need skilled resources in a hurry. I've run projects where more than half the project team are non-native EU citizens on temporary assignment. If pulling together a project team starts to take months rather than days or weeks then that's not going to improve matters.

 

[Airfix]

I have news for you. You will not like it.

And I have news for you.
You do not know what I will or will not like.

I have a feeling that I will like it.

That's the trouble. The major economies and/or trading blocs will know that the UK is desperate for a trade deal and will therefore play hardball with us.

Other major economies are queuing up to show interest in having a free trade deal with us.
They know that we aren't begging and can choose.

You want a deal with Country X or the Y Free Trade area ? Well they are going to try and ensure that deal is as advantageous as possible for themselves and as disadvantageous for the UK and for their competitors.

Countries like China which have been identified as growth markets know they have the whip hand.

Look at other free trade deals before you jump to conclusions.
Switzerland has a free trade deal with China and other countries and blocs.
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/h...iste_der_Freihandelsabkommen_der_Schweiz.html

Switzerland's bilateral free trade deal with China hasn't stopped it having others with the EU, Japan, EFTA, South Korea etc.

And we're in a stronger position than Switzerland.

It's much easier getting free trade deals between countries on a bilateral basis rather than having EU negotiators who are all pulling in different directions. The hardest part of Brexit will be getting a new free trade deal with the EU (as the EU's clunky rule TFEU 207 will continue to apply to remaining members), the easiest part, will be getting new free trade deals beyond the EU.

 

[McHrozni]

And I have news for you.
You do not know what I will or will not like.

I have a feeling that I will like it.

Yeah? Let's see, then:

A good deal of British exports depends on British imports from EU, all of it is dependent on treaties with EU and standards enforced by EU.

Do you like the news or not?

If you're unsure consider that consider that cars are usually stressed as one factor where UK definitely holds the edge, because losing UK car trade would threaten continental car companies.
UK is a net car exporter, over 3/4 of British car production is affected as a result. Well over half of that goes to EU.
Who do you think is in a worse position - a nation who stands to lose half of it's car production, or a bloc of nations who stands to lose about 5%? This is not counting import substitution or moving production elsewhere, as Nissan already mentioned could happen.

This is a segment where UK is supposed to be the strongest. Do you like the news?

Other major economies are queuing up to show interest in having a free trade deal with us.
They know that we aren't begging and can choose.

Or else they know you are begging and it's the right time to choose you to strike a deal most beneficial to them with.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Look at other free trade deals before you jump to conclusions.
Switzerland has a free trade deal with China and other countries and blocs.
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/h...iste_der_Freihandelsabkommen_der_Schweiz.html

Switzerland's bilateral free trade deal with China hasn't stopped it having others with the EU, Japan, EFTA, South Korea etc.

And we're in a stronger position than Switzerland..

Switzerland had a free trade deal with EU before China, you have it in reverse. Free trade with EU didn't stop Switzerland from having a trade deal with China.

As for UK being in a stronger position than Switzerland, I have some more news for you that you probably won't like at all.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Other major economies are queuing up to show interest in having a free trade deal with us..

Of course they claim that they are, it's the same reason that shoppers queue up outside shops on Boxing Day - they know that there are great deals to be had. The government will need to demonstrate that everything is fine and under control so they will need to get some deals signed quickly.

 

[Airfix]

Yeah? Let's see, then:

A good deal of British exports depends on British imports from EU, all of it is dependent on treaties with EU and standards enforced by EU.

You don't understand what you're talking about.

No treaties need to be signed between countries for trade to take place.
Treaties to get rid of tariffs are preferable.
Standards, obviously just as the EU has to meet US standards when trading with the USA.

Do you like the news or not?

The news that you're being a bit rude ?

If you're unsure consider that consider that cars are usually stressed as one factor where UK definitely holds the edge, because losing UK car trade would threaten continental car companies.

I'm not unsure, I've been aware of the facts my whole adult life.

What may amaze you is that most of the world manages to cope quite nicely without having membership of the European Union.

UK is a net car exporter, over 3/4 of British car production is affected as a result. Well over half of that goes to EU.

And that will continue for as long as the factories making cars are able to meet standards.

International trade doesn't require countries to give sovereign power to the EU.

The EU is a project to create a new nation.
It is a hugely complicated and convoluted organisation that goes far beyond what is necessary to do away with tariffs and facilitate trade.

There was no need at all to create an EU military staff or to have an EU wide foreign policy. There was no need to create a common EU immigration policy or a common tariff policy. There was no need for Schengen nor was there any need for the Euro.

The EU is too big, too complicated, too expensive, and too silly.

We can be lean and efficient and more open than the EU.

Here's another piece of news for you, we're in the Commonwealth, that's 53 countries. Remoaners speak of influence in the world, 53 countries have a bigger voice than the EU and it's failing Eurozone.

 

[Airfix]

Of course they claim that they are, it's the same reason that shoppers queue up outside shops on Boxing Day - they know that there are great deals to be had. The government will need to demonstrate that everything is fine and under control so they will need to get some deals signed quickly.

It takes two to tango, for them to get a great deal, we must also reciprocally benefit.

Previously, they've faced tariffs and so have we. It makes sense to get rid of the tariffs both ways.

 

[McHrozni]

You don't understand what you're talking about.

No treaties need to be signed between countries for trade to take place.
Treaties to get rid of tariffs are preferable.
Standards, obviously just as the EU has to meet US standards when trading with the USA.

It's actually you that don't understand what you're talking about.

I usually find questions to be the best answer to such gridlock. Where does Nissan UK source it's car components from?

What may amaze you is that most of the world manages to cope quite nicely without having membership of the European Union.

Most of the world is not integrated in the EU and is now seeking to end this integration. If you can't understand a difference between leaving the EU and never being a member, you can't understand the problem of Brexit at all.

Which is, I suspect, par for the course for a Leave voter.

International trade doesn't require countries to give sovereign power to the EU.
The EU is a project to create a new nation.
It is a hugely complicated and convoluted organisation that goes far beyond what is necessary to do away with tariffs and facilitate trade.

Yes, good catch, the goal of the EU is to unify Europe. The "Union" is a bit of a giveaway in that regard I suspect. Funnily enough, this never was a major issue with Leave campaign. Care to guess why that was?

Let me give you a hint: UK had something called an 'opt out' of that part of the EU. Google it.

Here's another piece of news for you, we're in the Commonwealth, that's 53 countries. Remoaners speak of influence in the world, 53 countries have a bigger voice than the EU and it's failing Eurozone.

I didn't realize membership in Commonwealth is mutually exclusive with membership in the EU or that it is a significant organization to begin with.

Wait, wrong.

You didn't realize that a country can be both in Commonwealth and in EU and that Commonwealth isn't all that powerful to begin with.

Par for the course for a Leave voter, I would think.

McHrozni

 

[Lothian]

Look at other free trade deals before you jump to conclusions.
Switzerland has a free trade deal with China and other countries and blocs.
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/h...iste_der_Freihandelsabkommen_der_Schweiz.html

Switzerland's bilateral free trade deal with China hasn't stopped it having others with the EU, Japan, EFTA, South Korea etc.

Switzerland's deal with China was that the Swiss dropped all tariffs on commencement of the agreement. China dropped some, partially reduced others and had some which will not be reduced for 15 years.
The agreement also contained an anti competitive practice clause, something you have been vociferously objecting to elsewhere.

You might want to pick another poster agreement.

 

[McHrozni]

Switzerland's deal with China was that the Swiss dropped all tariffs on commencement of the agreement. China dropped some, partially reduced others and had some which will not be reduced for 15 years.
The agreement also contained and anti competitive practice clause, something you have been vociferously objecting to elsewhere.

You might want to pick another poster agreement.

The Swiss-China agreement should be a poster agreement for a Remain vote. Plus Switzerland was in a much stronger position to negotiate it than UK is. True, UK is a bigger economy, but it's also in a state of distress, it needs new markets and it can't wait. Switzerland was in a significantly stronger position in comparison.

The size of the country is not nearly as decisive as Brexitards would have us think. It helps in most cases, but it is downright useless if you're desperate and lack skilled negotiators. A small nation is actually better off in such case, because it has more options (e.g. Iceland and their "we'll only fully compensate our own savers" scheme).

McHrozni

 

[Craig B]

We can be lean and efficient and more open than the EU ... we're in the Commonwealth, that's 53 countries. Remoaners speak of influence in the world, 53 countries have a bigger voice than the EU and it's failing Eurozone.

"More open"? Do you mean we'll have free migration with the rest of the Commonwealth? You mean that these migration restrictions will be rescinded? I'm sure Nigel and his xenophobic chums will be ecstatic!

The Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1968 (c. 9) was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

The Act amended the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962, further reducing rights of citizens of the Commonwealth of Nations countries (as of 2010, comprising approximately 1.9 billion people, including New Zealand, Australia, The Republic of India, Islamic Republic of Pakistan (which included East Pakistan province), some African nations including Nigeria and many Caribbean islands) to migrate to the UK.​

 

[Aepervius]

It takes two to tango, for them to get a great deal, we must also reciprocally benefit.

Previously, they've faced tariffs and so have we. It makes sense to get rid of the tariffs both ways.

Hu. No. Sometimes it takes one to tango the second one being a littttle more desperate to get a partner after they lost their group of preferred partner, and so has no choice on the conditions imposed on the dance.

 

[GlennB]

Too generous. They put a vat of excrement on a high shelf then pulled it down on their own heads.

Determined and confident bodging, though.

There's chaos at the moment, but things could look a lot different in a year. They could, for instance, look a lot worse.

ffs:

"David Davis [The secretary of state for exiting the EU] was expressing his opinion rather than government policy when he said it would be unlikely for Britain to stay in the single market after Brexit negotiations, the prime minister’s spokeswoman has said."

 

[ddt]

So now we are told that the policy being considered is that you will only be able to come to Britain if you have a job that a British national cannot fill. This will be a nightmare for the thousands of employers who rely on EU labour for everything from medical and health services to fruit picking. I suspect that only the largest of businesses have international recruitment experience and very few have ever had to prove that they tried to recruit British citizens before recruiting from Europe. This will mean for many employers increased costs and another level of red tape and bureaucracy. Also, it does not bode well for UK citizens in the EU if we end up being treated in the same way.

This is in direct contradiction to the four freedoms. EU law says you have to treat EU citizens equal to your own citizens in about any aspect except for voting rights. And the same holds for the EEA. As a EU citizen, I can tomorrow pack up my stuff and move to Slovakia, go live there and seek a job, or establish a business; and I don't need a job before moving there. And the same if I move to Norway, because it's part of the EEA.

So if that's the plan, a Norway-style option is off the table, because it will be unacceptable to the EU to incorporate the UK under those conditions in the EEA.

In other words, it means: out out out.

ETA: "The single market is not Swiss cheese"

 

[The Don]

ffs:

"David Davis [The secretary of state for exiting the EU] was expressing his opinion rather than government policy when he said it would be unlikely for Britain to stay in the single market after Brexit negotiations, the prime minister’s spokeswoman has said."

[qimg]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/Personal%20pics/fawltytowers.jpg[/qimg]

Then again shouldn't we take this seriously ? After all he's in charge of negotiating Brexit and for him keeping Johnny (and Jane) Foreigner out is more important than the health of the UK economy.

 

[The Don]

This is in direct contradiction to the four freedoms. EU law says you have to treat EU citizens equal to your own citizens in about any aspect except for voting rights. And the same holds for the EEA. As a EU citizen, I can tomorrow pack up my stuff and move to Slovakia, go live there and seek a job, or establish a business; and I don't need a job before moving there. And the same if I move to Norway, because it's part of the EEA.

So if that's the plan, a Norway-style option is off the table, because it will be unacceptable to the EU to incorporate the UK under those conditions in the EEA.

In other words, it means: out out out.

I refer you to my earlier post

Is this a case of the mask finally being lifted and Theresa May coming out as a full out-out-out Brexiteer ?

 

[GlennB]

Then again shouldn't we take this seriously ? After all he's in charge of negotiating Brexit and for him keeping Johnny (and Jane) Foreigner out is more important than the health of the UK economy.

Yeah. It's just that I was kidding myself they might use the 6-week summer recess to decide what policy might actually be. Perhaps they were dotted around the world on holiday on sun-kissed islands?

 

[ddt]

I refer you to my earlier post

Yes, I'm sorry for you the way it seems to go. Have you already done some genealogical research? From where you live, the EU is only a short swim away - and it only has a 1% corporate tax rate (if you're called Apple).

 

[The Don]

Yes, I'm sorry for you the way it seems to go. Have you already done some genealogical research? From where you live, the EU is only a short swim away - and it only has a 1% corporate tax rate (if you're called Apple).

The only nationality to which I could have a claim is Italian but although my paternal grandfather was born in Italy, he emigrated to the U.S. as an infant and became naturalised......

 

[Tolls]

Yeah. It's just that I was kidding myself they might use the 6-week summer recess to decide what policy might actually be. Perhaps they were dotted around the world on holiday on sun-kissed islands?

Davis had 300 people to recruit to create his nice shiny new department. He was far too busy to do any actual policy making, or talking to other members of the cabinet about what they should be doing.