General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Elagabalus]

What? HD Denier banned?! But ... I just received my box set of Hogan's Hereos Series 1 DVD's!

Great stuff! Werner Klemperer, John Banner and Leon Askin (General Burkhalter) kick it in the ass!

OH, well, it's a little late but HD Denier, this is for you ...

No, the bombings caused a lot of problems. Saying they didn't is nonsense. Hey, you guys put that link up, I followed what it said.
See how you help my cause?

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Oh, HD, I gave you that link because I wanted you to see that there is a group of people on their way to the gas chambers (image 3).

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/through-the-lens/auschwitz-aerial-photos.asp

It also gives an nice overview about when the Allies began their photo reconnaissance missions to Upper Silesia. They didn't bomb the Monowitz plant until September 13, 1944. Keep that date in mind. Before that date it was one plane with two cameras to provide stereoscopic 3D images of terrain and target detail for future bombing missions.

(Image 3) was taken on August 25th, 1944.

What's really interesting is this series of pictures taken on August 23rd, 1944.

http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-73

Does anything stand out in that picture? That's right, there's a huge column of smoke rising up on the upper left-hand corner. C'mon, you can see it! This picture is just the start of the series. In the next shot you can see just how massive it is.

http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-73

and into the next shot:

http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-156

I would like to thank Sergey and Hans from HC for doing most of the heavy lifting:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/11/that-plume-was-actually-even-bigger.html

And Hans even made as series of animated gifs an example of which is shown below:



http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.pt/2015/06/personal-movement-in-auschwitz-birkenau.html

That's some plume! I wonder what's happening down there? From the camp layout we know its right next to the alleged (according to you) crematoria 5 location.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_nm.php?ModuleId=0&MediaId=304#

Something is definitely burning in a an open air pit (at the time the photo was taken) and you can see other unused pits right next to it. I wonder if there are any more clues to what exactly is burning in the pit?

I mean, apart from the eye witness testimonies and the confessions of the NAZI's themselves?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html


The four pictures from the SonderKommandos taken from Crematoria 5. This cite has a map with the location of the person taking the photos. Unfortunately, it is mislabeled as Crematoria IV. (We all make mistakes and interestingly enough John Ball makes the same mistake, too).

https://web.archive.org/web/2005080...tudien.de/artikel.php?c=fotografie/resistance

Provenance of the photos discussed here:

https://books.google.de/books?id=P0CnKQpDIL8C&pg=PA114&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false


And it also corroborates Rudolf Hoess' testimony about open air cremations p.36-37.

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Dealer-Memoirs-Kommandant-Auschwitz/dp/0306806983#reader_0306806983


Now, don't bother thanking me ...

 

[Elagabalus]

Sadly, this is old news for me. On Rodoh and other forums. I remember well a denier on Rodoh quoting Goebbels to support his views. And trying to use the Nazis' propaganda against Theodore Newman Kaufman's Germany Must Perish! to convince people of an international Jewish danger. And elsewhere quoting from Nazi pamphlets and whatnot on the Jewish character of the US government, 'cuz, you know, Jews were behind opposition to the Nazis.

Pretty much another day at the office, so to speak, except this trio seemed rather exceptionally ill informed.

Man, you ain't kidding! That "Further Glory" website has got to be one of the trippiest blogs I have ever had the displeasure of reading. "I'm an old woman (so she/he says) who likes to travel and then write about my visits to foreign lands in a personal blog where I also post random musings about how the Zionists are trying take over the Earth ..."

 

[A'isha]

Sadly, this is old news for me. On Rodoh and other forums. I remember well a denier on Rodoh quoting Goebbels to support his views. And trying to use the Nazis' propaganda against Theodore Newman Kaufman's Germany Must Perish! to convince people of an international Jewish danger. And elsewhere quoting from Nazi pamphlets and whatnot on the Jewish character of the US government, 'cuz, you know, Jews were behind opposition to the Nazis.

Pretty much another day at the office, so to speak, except this trio seemed rather exceptionally ill informed.

Ah, I tend to stay away from Codoh/Rodoh, for pretty much that reason.

This is the first time I think I've seen a denier doing that here, though, and I've been pretty active in almost all incarnations of the Holocaust Denial threads. The most I've seen is links to modern neo-Nazi stuff like Metapedia, but not, that I can recall, actual Nazi Nazi stuff.

Have we just been lucky before now or something?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Ah, I tend to stay away from Codoh/Rodoh , , ,

Good call.

 

[Dash80]

I have a question I'm struggling to find answers for.

How was the location of the "little red house" bunker 1 gas chamber determined?

I visited Birkenau last December and both of the bunker memorials. The "little white house" location has never been in doubt, in fact we had a really sobering experience there. It had rained quite heavy the morning of our visit, and to this very day the ground near the bunker 2 memorial shows evidence of the open air incinerations. The mud not far from the bunker 2 memorial was greyish, strange and appeared to contain bone fragments. Quite a shocking thing to realise.

The bunker 1 memorial is basically a field, right in the middle of homes build after the war. From what I've been told, there were virtually no attempts to locate and preserve any possible traces from bunker 1 and it's burial/cremation pits.

Searching around for answers brought me to this:

http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Mattogno176-183.html

Thankfully I'm not dumb enough to rely on deniers for information. I suspect that link is basically grains of truth, liberally scattered with BS.

 

[Border Reiver]

Are a Holocaust Skeptic Border Reiver or not? If you are not you don't belong here in this discussion. Your aim is always defending the Holocaust narrative. Then you are not a Skeptic, see you later, get out of this discussion and take all your Jewish and or Jewish wannabes with you. Are you a Holocaust Skeptic, yes or no.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Back from a two week exercise with the Canadian Forces.

A skeptic is not simply someone who takes a contrarian view. A skeptic is someone who evaluates evidence and bases their positions on the best evidence available.

The best evidence available says the holocaust happened.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Man, you ain't kidding! That "Further Glory" website has got to be one of the trippiest blogs I have ever had the displeasure of reading. "I'm an old woman (so she/he says) who likes to travel and then write about my visits to foreign lands in a personal blog where I also post random musings about how the Zionists are trying take over the Earth ..."

I go over there and post things to annoy her and the other deniers that post there. She hasn't banned me yet, despite calls for her to do so.

 

[Nick Terry]

Holocaust deniers are inordinately fond of asserting that some aspect or detail of the Holocaust is "not documented", meaning that the Nazis destroyed any records on that particular detail, not that there are no sources about it.

In quite a few cases, this assertion then blows up in their faces when Nazi documents are discovered or were already known and discussed in books and articles that the deniers forgot to read.

The latest example is the claim that there are no documents about the Chelmno crematoria - this is now falsified, as a document mentioning the crematoria at Chelmno just came to light:

“The Jews buried in a little wood near Kulmhof”: Documenting Cremation at Chełmno

As Chelmno is one of the lesser-known camps, hopefully this will interest people for the historical content as much as for the debunking of HD woo.

The article linked above also highlights how much source material has been digitised; most of the documents cited can be viewed online. 1.3 million pages of the Lodz Jewish council and Lodz ghetto administration records are now online.

 

[Charles Traynor]

Good call.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

 

[Charles Traynor]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions. The reason Believers don't want the historical facts to be checked is because they know them to be false.

 

[Charles Traynor]

Liars need to have a good memory or they will be caught out. In the short video below Kitty Hart Moxon is shown to have lied about a speech she claimed to have given to other prisoners as they departed Auschwitz in 1944.

The evolution of this particular lie:

I Am Alive, Kitty Hart (Abelard-Schuman, 1961), p.121

Return to Auschwitz, Kitty Hart (Atheneum, 1985), p.131

Above the teenaged Kitty Hart takes control of the situation and bosses the privileged prisoners of Birkenau around.

https://vimeo.com/170283326

https://youtu.be/qxMTWP2f8sg


In 2015 Kitty Hart finally admits her mother was a senior prisoner and because of her privileged status was transported out of Auschwitz in the early days of the evacuation. And it was actually her mother Roza who gave the moral boosting speech to fellow collaborators as they were about to be transported towards Germany and safety.

 

[Dash80]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions. The reason Believers don't want the historical facts to be checked is because they know them to be false.

Wrong. You deny that Jews were systematically murdered. That is Holocaust DENIAL.

I know the facts are not false, I have visited several camps including Birkenau and Chelmno. I have German and Polish family who were deeply affected by the Nazi slaughter of innocent people.

Liars need to have a good memory or they will be caught out. In the short video below Kitty Hart Moxon is shown to have lied about a speech she claimed to have given to other prisoners as they departed Auschwitz in 1944.

The evolution of this particular lie:

[qimg]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee226/mralbertfish/lie_1a_zps6duttzqy.jpg[/qimg]
I Am Alive, Kitty Hart (Abelard-Schuman, 1961), p.121


[qimg]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee226/mralbertfish/lie_2b_zps9ew6wknf.jpg[/qimg]
Return to Auschwitz, Kitty Hart (Atheneum, 1985), p.131

Above the teenaged Kitty Hart takes control of the situation and bosses the privileged prisoners of Birkenau around.

https://vimeo.com/170283326

https://youtu.be/qxMTWP2f8sg


In 2015 Kitty Hart finally admits her mother was a senior prisoner and because of her privileged status was transported out of Auschwitz in the early days of the evacuation. And it was actually her mother Roza who gave the moral boosting speech to fellow collaborators as they were about to be transported towards Germany and safety.

So just because Kitty Hart previously stated it was her and not her mother = Holocaust didn't happen
Got it...

There are a number of reasons why she might have done that, protecting her mother perhaps?

I had the great pleasure of meeting Kitty Hart in person, I found her to be an inspiration and a strong, caring and kind woman. But of course, to you, she's just a lying Jew isn't that right?

 

[threadworm]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions.

No, it's used a label for nazi apologists and anti-semites who try and deny the historical fact of systematic and organised murder of the Jews during WWII. Some of these people like to admit that "some" Jews were murdered as their get out of jail free card. Difficult for them to hide their disappointment though - how many Jews do you consider it acceptable to murder before it becomes an issue for you?

The reason Believers don't want the historical facts to be checked is because they know them to be false.

Go check them, bring them out here. The Holocaust happened, historical facts says so.

 

[Dash80]

Some of these people like to admit that "some" Jews were murdered as their get out of jail free card. Difficult for them to hide their disappointment though - how many Jews do you consider it acceptable to murder before it becomes an issue for you?

Not enough of them, apparently. The old "it didn't happen but they deserved it anyway" trope.

Most of our resident (or former resident) deniers have not a word to say about the murder of other groups. Gypsies, Soviet POWs, the sick, mentally ill or disabled. It's all about the "lying Jewish liars".

 

[Elagabalus]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions...

And you, in no way, feel any ill-will towards the Jews?

I run from nothing. It clearly shows that Jewish “survivors” who are the only eyewitnesses to the holohoax are liars. They were lying in 1945 and they are still lying today.

I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

And lastly ...

... The reason Believers don't want the historical facts to be checked is because they know them to be false.

Actually, the facts are checked all the time. That's how Historical Scholarship works.

You should know that. But then I forget that you aren't actually a serious scholar.

 

[Hercules56]

Hey folks, what was the details about the Nazi request to increase the crematoria capacity at one of the death camps?

I am trying to look it up and can't find the info.

thanks.

 

[LeoMajor]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions. The reason Believers don't want the historical facts to be checked is because they know them to be false.

[SNIP] We, those who are on the right side of history that is, welcome all legitimate inquirey. Such inquirey is part and parcel of the study of the period since the end of the war. Look no further than Rietlinger's dramatic reasessment of the total death toll, Piper's final asessment of the Auschwitz toll, and Longereich's conflict with Browning on chronology. The one thing that unites us (those on the right side ofhistory) is that we take a reasonable asessment of events from the volumous evidence present. You people spin impossibly vast conspiracy theories out of thin air, misinterpret evidence, or simply make things up when youfind yourself backed into a corner as is often the case.

Additionally, you espose anti-democratic ideas, including white nationalisim and scientific racisim, filth that has no place in any society. None of the above meets the definition of legitimate inquirey.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12

 

[Dash80]

Hey folks, what was the details about the Nazi request to increase the crematoria capacity at one of the death camps?

I am trying to look it up and can't find the info.

thanks.

Good place to start:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/p/test.html?m=1

 

[dudalb]

With the film "Denial" about the Lipstadt/David Irving trial (with Rachel Weisz as Lipstadt) scheduled for release in a few weeks, I suspect we will get yet another flood of Deniers infesting the Internet.

 

[Belz...]

The label Holocaust denier is a dishonest one used to insinuate revisionists believe nothing bad happened to the Jews during WWII and to discourage us from asking questions.

No, I think it's used to describe people who deny that the Holocaust happened. Hence the name.