General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Charles Traynor]

You may want to inquire of Mr Traynor about the progress he's making on his opus, best known as The Fish Reporr. It has been promised now for perhaps three years, with advance notice that it will be earth-shaking. Due to mockery and other issues, that is of the project, I have been taken off the list of those to receive copies on its grand release. IIRC it will bring together in a video format Mr Traynor's beer drinking bouts at research expeditions to the Auschwitz camp complex. Mr Traynor is best positioned to explain the project, why it has not been released at the various times promised, and how it will rock our world.

That’s right LemmyCaution, I actually read scholarly works and carry out physical investigations of the camps. Unlike the majority of JREF members who seem to get their knowledge of the holocaust from the History Channel.

 

[TSR]

My lapse of memory in no way negates Spielberg’s mendacity.

But your complete inability to demonstrate that mendacity does.

And once again: Even if absolutely everything you say about a single filmmaker is the gospel truth, what does that say about events which took place before that filmmaker was born (or at most when he was 2 years old)?

 

[Charles Traynor]

Millions of American school children are learning holohoax history with education packages provided by proven liars and propagandists like Steven Spielberg and his USC Shoah Foundation. Evil liar Irene Zisblatt is also doing her bit to educate America’s children and regularly tours schools giving lectures designed to poison the minds of the young with vile anti-Gentile hatred. I personally regard this old hag as a child molester, and am appalled that school authorities actually invite her into their classrooms.

Ordinarily I would expect people to be upset by these types of revelations. However, in the short time I have been here JREF I have learned most of its membership are nothing more than mindless conformists, therefore, I doubt there will be much of a reaction. Even so I will risk asking some questions:

1. Does anyone here agree that Spielberg should be stripped of the Oscar he won for The Last Days?

2. Should Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation be allowed to supply its propaganda to public schools?

3. Should proven liars like Irene Zisblatt be allowed to give lectures to school children?

 

[TSR]

That’s right LemmyCaution, I actually read scholarly works and carry out physical investigations of the camps. Unlike the majority of JREF members who seem to get their knowledge of the holocaust from the History Channel.

So when *is* this "Fish report" going to be published in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Yes, from the Wannsee protocol. Though it was still not a hard and fast definition and it is notable that there were exceptions.

Again, how does that mean there was no Holocaust?

The foundational definitions are in the Nuremberg laws and subsequent commentary. The discussions at Wannsee looked at practical issues for the Final Solution in the light of those laws. In addition, definitions differed in various occupied areas (as military and civilian authoroties consolidated German rule in these zones) and among Axis allies of Germany, as described by Hilberg and others.

Dogzilla seems hellbent on ignoring prior discussions of this question as well as recent posts and references. It is not clear why. And despite his insistence he's read works explaining National Socialist Jewish policy, including material on the legal definition of who was Jewish, Dogzilla seems blithely ignorant of what is in the works he's read.

 

[Charles Traynor]

But your complete inability to demonstrate that mendacity does.

I left links to evidence showing Spielberg was dishonest. If you couldn’t be bothered to follow them then that’s your problem.

 

[TSR]

I left links to evidence showing Spielberg was dishonest. If you couldn’t be bothered to follow them then that’s your problem.

No you left links to *claims* of dishonesty. Not one of them documented a knowing untruth on the part of Spielberg.

And everyone can see that you have snipped and run from the other part of the post:

And once again: Even if absolutely everything you say about a single filmmaker is the gospel truth, what does that say about events which took place before that filmmaker was born (or at most when he was 2 years old)?

 

[LemmyCaution]

My lapse of memory in no way negates Spielberg’s mendacity.

Your gross negligence, your carelessness with facts, and your subsequent misrepresentation, in fact, impugn your credibility, confirm your biased assumptions, and give an example of your mendacity.

 

[LemmyCaution]

That’s right LemmyCaution, I actually read scholarly works and carry out physical investigations of the camps. Unlike the majority of JREF members who seem to get their knowledge of the holocaust from the History Channel.

The Fish Reporr, Mr Traynor, such bold promises, so many delays . . .

 

[LemmyCaution]

Millions of American school children are learning holohoax history with education packages provided by proven liars and propagandists like Steven Spielberg and his USC Shoah Foundation. Evil liar Irene Zisblatt is also doing her bit to educate America’s children and regularly tours schools giving lectures designed to poison the minds of the young with vile anti-Gentile hatred. I personally regard this old hag as a child molester, and am appalled that school authorities actually invite her into their classrooms.

Ordinarily I would expect people to be upset by these types of revelations. However, in the short time I have been here JREF I have learned most of its membership are nothing more than mindless conformists, therefore, I doubt there will be much of a reaction. Even so I will risk asking some questions:

1. Does anyone here agree that Spielberg should be stripped of the Oscar he won for The Last Days?

2. Should Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation be allowed to supply its propaganda to public schools?

3. Should proven liars like Irene Zisblatt be allowed to give lectures to school children?

And, again, Mr Traynor, what do you suggest? Camps?

Could you show us your data on numbers of children exposed to those things that concern you? By the way, here and at RODOH I have explained my concerns about and criticisms of educational standards, curriculum materials, teacher readiness, and lesson coverage of the Holocaust in American schools, so, before you mount your high horse, don't assume that my question for you is some kind of defense of the status quo.

 

[Charles Traynor]

So when *is* this "Fish report" going to be published in a peer-reviewed journal?

Unfortunately I have been exceptionally busy this year and have had to put my serious holocaust work on the back burner. My report and the accompanying documentary film will probably be released 3rd quarter 2013.

LemmyCaution will be pleased to learn that for old times’ sake, and because I am so kind hearted, I am declaring a general amnesty for all those who were previously blacklisted.

 

[TSR]

Millions of American school children are learning holohoax history with education packages provided by proven liars and propagandists like Steven Spielberg and his USC Shoah Foundation.

Except for the teeny tiny fact that you have "proven" nothing.

Evil liar Irene Zisblatt is also doing her bit to educate America’s children and regularly tours schools giving lectures designed to poison the minds of the young with vile anti-Gentile hatred.

Really? Can you quote us some of this ant-Gentile hate? And when was her last such tour?

I personally regard this old hag as a child molester, and am appalled that school authorities actually invite her into their classrooms.

"Child moslester". Really? By what twisted definition of that term?

Ordinarily I would expect people to be upset by these types of revelations.

That your personal worldview is so skewed that you equate a speech with molestation? That if anyone but you is in error, it must be a lie? Why should anyone care about your delusions? You just don't matter.

However, in the short time I have been here JREF I have learned most of its membership are nothing more than mindless conformists, therefore, I doubt there will be much of a reaction.

Au contraire, we are mind*ful* conformists to the truth.

We don't have to redefine terms to suit our irrational need to justify our hate.

We also do not engage in double standards as you have done.

Even so I will risk asking some questions:

1. Does anyone here agree that Spielberg should be stripped of the Oscar he won for The Last Days?

No.

2. Should Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation be allowed to supply its propaganda to public schools?

Since it does not supply "propaganda" by any normative definition of that word, that would be "no". Its educational materials, however, should be welcomed.

3. Should proven liars like Irene Zisblatt be allowed to give lectures to school children?

You see, CT, there's this little thing enshrined in the US constitution called "the right to free speech" which means that with very few exceptions anyone can say anything they care to.

Which is rather a good deal for you, wouldn't you say?

 

[Charles Traynor]

No you left links to *claims* of dishonesty. Not one of them documented a knowing untruth on the part of Spielberg.

And everyone can see that you have snipped and run from the other part of the post:

I run from nothing. It clearly shows that Jewish “survivors” who are the only eyewitnesses to the holohoax are liars. They were lying in 1945 and they are still lying today.

 

[TSR]

Unfortunately I have been exceptionally busy this year

And last year, and the year before that...

and have had to put my serious holocaust work on the back burner.

Only for certain values of "serious" which map directly to "not at all"


And yet, busy as you are, you found the time to come here and engage in your distortions and accusations against all and sundry.

Odd, that.

My report and the accompanying documentary film will probably be released 3rd quarter 2013.

... only 7 years late.

Is this going to be another Krege report, where we only ever see reports that a report is coming Real Soon Now?

LemmyCaution will be pleased to learn that for old times’ sake, and because I am so kind hearted, I am declaring a general amnesty for all those who were previously blacklisted.

I'm sure he will sleep much better at night, basking in the glow of your generosity.

Which journal will you be submitting to?

 

[TSR]

I run from nothing.

Yes, you did, and everyone saw it.

It clearly shows that Jewish “survivors” who are the only eyewitnesses to the holohoax are liars.

Well, no, they *aren't* the only eyewitnesses, and even if Zisblatt was a survivor, she does not impeach any of the others.

Nor would that change any of the demographic, documentary or physical evidence which just happens to corroborate the other testimonial evidence.

They were lying in 1945 and they are still lying today.

No and no.

At least not that you have shown.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I run from nothing. It clearly shows that Jewish “survivors” who are the only eyewitnesses to the holohoax are liars. They were lying in 1945 and they are still lying today.

The only eyewitnesses to the Holocaust are Jews? This claim needs some explanation . . . to say the least.

 

[Charles Traynor]

I'm sure he will sleep much better at night, basking in the glow of your generosity.

I'm sure he will too.

Which journal will you be submitting to?

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 0 and 12 removed.

I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Unfortunately I have been exceptionally busy this year and have had to put my serious holocaust work on the back burner. My report and the accompanying documentary film will probably be released 3rd quarter 2013.

LemmyCaution will be pleased to learn that for old times’ sake, and because I am so kind hearted, I am declaring a general amnesty for all those who were previously blacklisted.

So this is no longer history from the History channel and is now history from Dads Army.

You can add my name to the "blacklist" if only so somebody can make a "Don't tell him Pike" joke...

 

[Tomtomkent]

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 0 and 12 removed.

I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

Cultist?
Jews?
Er.. Just to be clear, you understand how peer review works? You WILL be wanting people to read your report? It tends to help if they know which issue of which journal to buy.

If the answer is Stormfront I wont be bothering.

 

[Border Reiver]

Millions of American school children are learning holohoax history with education packages provided by proven liars and propagandists like Steven Spielberg and his USC Shoah Foundation.

Prove the education packages contain lies. Reference the "lie" and the established history that contradicts it.

Evil liar Irene Zisblatt is also doing her bit to educate America’s children and regularly tours schools giving lectures designed to poison the minds of the young with vile anti-Gentile hatred. I personally regard this old hag as a child molester, and am appalled that school authorities actually invite her into their classrooms.

You know, 5+ pages into a google search on the lady and all I find "refuting" her story is a bunch of incredulity on denier sites, and colour me suspicious, but that's not proof the lady lied. Of course I will also be asking for specific examples of the hate speech she allegedly spreads, and how this meets the accepted legal definition of hate speech.

Ordinarily I would expect people to be upset by these types of revelations. However, in the short time I have been here JREF I have learned most of its membership are nothing more than mindless conformists, therefore, I doubt there will be much of a reaction. Even so I will risk asking some questions:

1. Does anyone here agree that Spielberg should be stripped of the Oscar he won for The Last Days?

Does it matter if anyone here does? It wouldn't change the historical reality of the Holocaust.

Also, wouldn't that be a decision for the Academy to make?

2. Should Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation be allowed to supply its propaganda to public schools?

sure

3. Should proven liars like Irene Zisblatt be allowed to give lectures to school children?

I don't think you've actually supplied any proof that she is dishonest.

On the other hand, there have been a number of cases where the deniers have been shown to be liars, or at least unable to contradict the conventional history:

David Irving - unable to win a libel suit he started wherein it was up to the defence to prove that their story was true (ie - that the Holocaust occurred);
Zundel
James Keegstra