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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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You can't even keep straight what your interest is.

If you want anyone to accept the "theory" that over 5 million Jews were deported, you need to tell us where to, when, how, by what routes, managed by whom, received in which places and under what arrangements - and what evidence shows this.

Ah yes the Holy Grail of Holocaust Denial the location of all these millions of Jews and other victims who were really alive somewhere else.

To find them would 'bust open the fraud'...problem is those 5 million appear to be remarkable elusive.
 
Find out why they supposedly did.
I've told you what the situation was - and you keep jumping on to other topics, then repeating your original misunderstandings.

War is war.
What does wiping out Jewish communities in occupied territory have to do with war?

What right did Americans have in Vietnam at MyLai to shoot up a whole village and murder everybody?
None. The My Lai massacre was a war crime - but not on the scale, and without the state sanction, of the German massacres of the Jews. There were others committed by Americans in Vietnam, but even so the scale didn't match the scale of the German killings of civilians during WWII.
 
So you are backing off "science" now and going with subjective experience of home construction? Interesting way to run away from a question.

And posting an incomprehensible explanation to support his "personal experience."
 
Germans camp personal died also. Epidemics are not partial... you act as though the Germans deliberately tried to starved these people to death, please stop spreading more of your nonsense. Apparently leaving people on the train to starve to death proved to work better than the mythical gas Chambers.

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Germans camp personal died also. Epidemics are not partial... you act as though the Germans deliberately tried to starved these people to death, please stop spreading more of your nonsense. Apparently leaving people on the train to starve to death proved to work better than the mythical gas Chambers.

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Another face palm moment from Joe.
 
Oh my back to this failed quote again. Have you actually read this thread? As we discussed this in some length above you are quoting something out of context. As you know this you are making a clearly false statement. I would suggest you take a crayon and write on the wall next to you. "Gringauz was writing about the Ghettos".

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/H9L5nSt.jpg[/qimg]

Not that you had any credibility remaining to lose.

LOL

Not only that but he keeps ignoring where Gringauz wrote this:
the conditions [in the ghettos] were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation.
And this:
the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history.
And this:
outside rule became identified with a policy of total annihilation while internal autonomy reached the level of a full-fledged community. This again is not a matter of exploring direct outside interference but of exploring the adjustment of the ghetto to an environment of hostile outside rule.
Pretty clear why.
 
Well, I've told you - they were cremated mostly as part of the SK-1005 action. That means a) they didn't "disappear" (I never claimed that they did; again I ask you not to distort what I've posted - doing so is a cheap shot) and b) I didn't change the topic on this but rather gave an answer to the question.

Details below:

HDOT Aktion Reinhard cremation overview

Muehlenkamp - HC: AR camps cremation intro; fuel requirementshttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/03/mattogno-graf-kues-on-aktion-reinhardt_18.html; duration of cremationshttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/03/mattogno-graf-kues-on-aktion-reinhardt_22.html; cremation remains

[url=http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs16-10.html]Nizkor cremation overview
You just come out with the point that they were cremated where do they get all the wood or coal?. 400 lbs of wood per body. You are dreaming about burning the bodies. Back up your statement with fuel statistics. Documents?
Storage sheds, Arial photography?
NONE.....You have no facts to your stupid unprovable statement.
Where's the teeth?MILLIONS of TEETH. Hitler's tooth fairy st work I guess. Oh wait, they found a shark's tooth that was the proof.
Human teeth all 20,000,000 million evolved to one sharks tooth...lol...put it in water and it expands to millions...lmao


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I've told you what the situation was - and you keep jumping on to other topics, then repeating your original misunderstandings.


What does wiping out Jewish communities in occupied territory have to do with war?


None. The My Lai massacre was a war crime - but not on the scale, and without the state sanction, of the German massacres of the Jews. There were others committed by Americans in Vietnam, but even so the scale didn't match the scale of the German killings of civilians during WWII.
You are using a broken scale...

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you act as though the Germans deliberately tried to starved these people to death

Because they did - by rationing prisoners to 1000 calories a day and less, even for people forced to do heavy labor.
 
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You just come out with the point that they were cremated where do they get all the wood or coal?. 400 lbs of wood per body. You are dreaming about burning the bodies. Back up your statement with fuel statistics. Documents?
Storage sheds, Arial photography?
NONE.....You have no facts to your stupid unprovable statement.
Where's the teeth?MILLIONS of TEETH. Hitler's tooth fairy st work I guess. Oh wait, they found a shark's tooth that was the proof.
Human teeth all 20,000,000 million evolved to one sharks tooth...lol...put it in water and it expands to millions...lmao


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Did you read the material in the links I provided? Apparently not. Read that material before firing off questions.

It seems that you now concede I did not claim that the bodies disappeared.
 
The ghettos were run by the Judenrats. Blame them.

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I've already replied to this nonsense. The ghettos were established by the Germans. The Jews were forced into ghettos by the Germans. The ghettos were under the guard of German (and auxiliary) troops. The Jewish Councils had to answer to the Germans and carry out the orders. Members of the Jewish Councils were murdered for failure to carry out orders properly or just to terrorize them and keep them in line. Thus, the Jewish Councils were instruments of German rule over the ghettos. Even so, in some cases Council members secretly resisted the Germans. The Jews in the ghetto found ways to resist and carry out community activities, against the aims of the Germans. All this is what Gringauz referred to when he wrote that
outside rule became identified with a policy of total annihilation while internal autonomy reached the level of a full-fledged community.
 
I've told you what the situation was - and you keep jumping on to other topics, then repeating your original misunderstandings.


What does wiping out Jewish communities in occupied territory have to do with war?


None. The My Lai massacre was a war crime - but not on the scale, and without the state sanction, of the German massacres of the Jews. There were others committed by Americans in Vietnam, but even so the scale didn't match the scale of the German killings of civilians during WWII.
There was no German massacre of Jews. Jews died like everyone else.
Unfortunately their stories are like listening to an LSD trip mixed with smelling glue....that's why Gringuaz quote is so appropriate. That guy was very observant of Jewish thought patterns to exaggerate and lie.....He's my hero quoter of the year.....along with Elisabeth Loftus 40 years work on false memories.


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Why did children like Anne Frank need "rehabillitation" ?

And are you aware of what the Einsatzgruppen did before the gas chambers were created ?
They made people dig mass graves, then shot them.
[qimg]http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/Killing-Squad-Nazi-Germanys-Einsatzgruppen-1.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/hol-pix/wsaw-exec.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Jew_Killings_in_Ivangorod_%281942%29.jpg/640px-Jew_Killings_in_Ivangorod_%281942%29.jpg[/qimg]

Are you aware of the massacre in the Rumbula forest of 25,000 Jews by gunshot ?

Or the massacre at Babi Yar in Ukraine of 33,771 Jews by gunshot ?

So I ask you again, why build the camps ?
The real reason was so that the people doing the killing were more detached from their victims and less prone to psychological break down.
We have been assured that pictures such as these are actually of a train wreck in 1912. Or something...
 
A couple things to be said here. Our revisionist friends have tried purveying a “no true Christian” version of the usual denier fallacy about the SKs and Kapos in the camps, which goes like this: the Jews were not exterminated, Jews are immoral for having participated in the crimes against other Jews. No true Christian, we now here, would behave like this infamous Jews.

Taking a bit of a look at Majdanek, and considering three testimonies I just happened to read today, let’s see how the revisionist argument works out. In the following testimonies we will see descriptions of Polish (Christian) prisoners and German (presumably Christan) staff at Majdanek participating in crimes against Polish, Jewish, and other prisoners. Which goes to show that, as we can show that crimes were committed in the camp against Polish, Jewish, and other prisoners, Poles and Germans participated in them in varying ways and under different pressures - the Poles, like Jews in other camps, were forced and participated under duress, the Germans as part of their jobs or out of ideological or other commitment to the goals of the Third Reich.

Romauld Sztaba, physician, political prisoner, entered Majdanek in February 1943, testified in Düsseldorf Majdanek trial, discussing a selection in the hospital (Banach, Grudzińska, & Lenarczyck, The Prisoners of Majdanek, p 83):
Actually there was not much we could do to help people with typhoid. A patient stayed in hospital for 12-14 days. . . . None of the Polish doctors selected people for gas chambers or decided about that. What we had to do was just present the ill and their febrile cards. The selection was always conducted by German doctors, and sometimes non-commissioned officers. The emaciated skeletons were arranged in a line, trembling with weakness and temperature. . . . They walked unsteadily one by one on their thin legs, big shaved heads, terrified eyes, not really aware of what was happening. An SS man stood in the middle, then a kapo or two non-commissioned officers, and then me. One of them decided: to the left – gas; to the right – still can live a little. And that’s it. He took the medical cards of the people who were going to the left, and gave all the others to me. The sick were to be prepared for the ‘transport’ within four hours.
Polish prisoner Stzaba’s participation was “restricted” to supplying medical information that helped Germans determine which prisoners to gas.

Eugenia Piwińska, political prisoner from Pawiak, entered Majdanek January 1943, discussing camp functionaries (Banach, Grudzińska, & Lenarczyck, The Prisoners of Majdanek, p 44):
There appeared a tiny group of ‘prominent camp women’ in the worst sense of the word. They were appointed by the SS to high functions and decided to cooperate with the torturers. They were the ones with whips, planks, riding crops in hand, who chased prisoners around the field, distributing frequent lashes and curses, kicks and slaps. . . . We hated and despised them as much as we hated the Germans, perhaps even more, because they were traitors. . . .
Here a Polish political prisoner describes the actions of prisoners elevated to “prominent” functionary positions and the hatred most prisoners had for such “traitors.” It seems that our rev friends are unaware of the concept of treachery or believe that it is a specifically Jewish characteristic.

Mordechai Sztrygler, Zamość, Yiddish writer, entered Majdanek end of May 1943 (Banach, Grudzińska, & Lenarczyck, The Prisoners of Majdanek, p 61):
Apart from the factories . . . the largest workplace was road construction company Polstefan along with its subsidiary – the headquarters. It was the worst place to work at Majdanek. . . . The main perpetrator responsible for these criminal deeds [tormenting of prisoners] in this square was a tall kapo, Viennese Take, who supervised work at the headquarters. . . . Mere beating would not satisfy him. . . . He often . . . strangled his victim to death. Another one of his pleasures was drowning people.
In this case a Jewish prisoner describes the sometimes lethal treatment meted out to other prisoners by an Austrian Kapo.

These testimonies are typical of what happened at Majdanek, where the core of the prisoner functionaries - those who assisted the Germans in keeping order in the camp and even in carrying out crimes against the prisoners, up to and including murder - were Germans transferred from KLs in the Reich and then Poles who entered the camp later. Our rev pals are mistaken to think that Jews only were enlisted by force to serve in the camps and help the Germans run them. The role was filled with ambiguity: perhaps by serving, a prisoner could try to ameliorate the intended treatment of fellow prisoners or assist the underground. Or even find a way to survive. Some Kapos, to be sure, used their positions to gain privileges and lord their power over prisoners, in accord with German aims, whilst others either behaved differently in different circumstances - and some functionaries were recalled as benevolent and helpful to the prisoners in their charge, taking risks in disobeying their German masters. These considerations, and decisions, were characteristic of all kinds of prisoners in Nazi custody: POWs, political prisoners, asocials and criminal inmates, Jewish prisoners, and so on.
 
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There was no German massacre of Jews. Jews died like everyone else.
But, leaving aside for the moment the evidence many of us have provided showing that there were large-scale and widespread massacres of Jews by the Germans, you've already told us they were such massacres - and that the Jews deserved it. Now you say there weren't the massacres you tell us were justified. You kind of need to make up your mind. At any event, I can't help noticing that you can't seem to help contradicting yourself.

Unfortunately their stories are like listening to an LSD trip mixed with smelling glue....that's why Gringuaz quote is so appropriate. That guy was very observant of Jewish thought patterns to exaggerate and lie.....He's my hero quoter of the year.....

Good for you. Just remember to quote Gringauz fully:
the conditions [in the ghettos] were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation.
And:
the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history.
And:
outside rule became identified with a policy of total annihilation while internal autonomy reached the level of a full-fledged community. This again is not a matter of exploring direct outside interference but of exploring the adjustment of the ghetto to an environment of hostile outside rule.
We are all onto you by now, you realize.
 
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A couple things to be said here. Our revisionist friends have tried purveying a “no true Christian” version of the usual denier fallacy about the SKs and Kapos in the camps, which goes like this: the Jews were not exterminated, Jews are immoral for having participated in the crimes against other Jews. No true Christian, we now here, would behave like this infamous Jews.

I would have thought that Miroslav Filipović was a true christian, having been catholic priest and franciscan friar.

He did not only kill Jews of also Serb orthodox.
 
Again, show me where I say "I hate the Jews".. I'm waiting

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You espouse conspiracy based nonsense that they control the world, you imply that they control the Canadian Court System, you deny that they experienced the genocide unleashed upon them by Nazi Germany and you falsely accuse them of "ruining" Germany and imply heavily that Hitler was right about them/. Your brother has openly expressed murderous feelings about them.

Don't lie to us.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12.
 
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