Ed Is Humayun Khan Trump's Turning Point?

[sunmaster14]

It is almost like you are whining "why everyone cares about it so much, no big deal maaan, he is not responsible for his own words or something maaan, since when POTUS nominee is supposed to behave like sane aldut".

I guess it is not big deal if POTUS nominee says that

• he has bright idea to make NATO protection racket
• calls for spying political opponent by foreign power
• jokes about assasination of political opponent
• already knows that elections are rigged if he loses

And that's only what I care immediately about, there are tons more. Pathetic.

I can take those one at a time. His call for NATO countries to contribute more to their defense is legitimate. His musings about whether or not we will defend them was perhaps a gaffe, but hardly an important one. It will have had an imperceptible impact on the probabilities from Russia's perspective, which is all that matters. Certainly orders of magnitude less than the impact that canceling our missile program in Poland and the Czech Republic had on Russia's subsequent behavior.

His call for Russia to "find" Hillary's emails was a joke. It also was done to highlight the fact that Russia probably already hacked Hillary's server and has possession of something that our own government does not - the "private" emails of the former Secretary of State. How Trump's statement could be considered inappropriate, let alone treasonous, is mind-boggling.

Trump did not joke about assassinating Hillary. He joked that repealing the 2nd Amendment and going after people's guns is easier to do legally than in practice. This is a very common principle of 2nd Amendment rights advocates, and I am convinced that's what Trump had in mind. It was a perfectly legitimate point to make, although perhaps impolitic.

I haven't been following the "rigged" stuff closely, but there is no question that Republicans believe there is a lot of voter fraud that benefits Democratic candidates. It suspect that's what he has in mind, not that the federal government has reprogrammed voting machines to give the election to Hillary.

<snip>

It is nice you don't mind that in POTUS. I personally mind presence of glassed, radioactive craters all over planet.

I see your ability to free associate exceeds that of Trump even.

Huh? He already did a lot. Mainly screwing over contractors, conducting scams like Trump University, getting away with multiple bankrupties in best corporate murica tradition of golden parachutes etc, etc, etc. Those virtues are SO appealing in future POTUS, am I rite?

The evidence that he has screwed over contractors is weak, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had been screwed over by contractors as much as he had screwed over them. The bankruptcies are red herrings. There is nothing wrong with bankruptcy. It's a perfectly legitimate part of doing business. A debtor has no fiduciary responsibility to his creditors. He only has contractual ones, and the creditors know that and plan for that. Trump University was apparently a scam, but, meh. Hopefully, he'll be forced by the courts to pay damages to people who were defrauded, if in fact they were defrauded. There's a fine line between fraud and consumer idiocy though. Although I don't particular like people who make their money from other people's stupidity, there are quite a lot of high-powered people (including many of Hillary's backers) who do exactly that for a living. It's still better than making your money via government corruption though, which even more high-powered people backing Hillary have done.

 

[sunmaster14]

Wow. So much cow dung in one post. It's actually impressive.

Wow. 11 words. Is that a new record?

 

[DavidJames]

The Republican attempt at equivalence revels a lot.

Attacking the parents of a dead soldier (which is the thread topic) is the same as mispronouncing a name.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Yes, he does refuse to apologize for gaffes. Is that so bad?

YES!

We aren't talking about being some dickbag in a corporate board room here. Anyone who is such a stranger to diplomacy is absolutely unfit to be President of these United States, who has to take on the chin the gaffes of the entire nation. The way Trump acts, he'd get us into a war within a month, because he'd rather that than admit he was wrong about something and bruise his tender ego. In which regard it doesn't help that he keeps asking why we haven't used nukes already.

I actually like politicians who speak their mind, who say what they honestly believe rather than what they think we want to hear and is safe to say. But that needs to be tempered with a capacity to recognize and defuse the situation when people take offense. In any conflict, no matter how minor, they need to be the better person, to at least attempt to hold the moral high ground. I don't see that in Trump.

 

[DavidJames]

Wow. 11 words. Is that a new record?

Some of us aren't impressed so much by the quantity of something as the quality.

For example, a ton of diarrhea (even if formatted and spelled correctly) is not as impressive as an ounce of gold.

 

[sunmaster14]

The Republican attempt at equivalence revels a lot.

Attacking the parents of a dead soldier (which is the thread topic) is the same as mispronouncing a name.

He "attacked" (weird word for what he did, but whatever) two people who slandered him in front of a national audience and claimed to know things about him which they could not possibly know. The fact that they were parents of a dead soldier should be irrelevant, from a logical point of view. But we do have this weird taboo in this country, at least when it comes to family members of dead soldiers who are spouting liberal talking points. If they spout conservative talking points, then, well, **** them. Amirite?

 

[sunmaster14]

Some of us aren't impressed so much by the quantity of something as the quality.

For example, a ton of diarrhea (even if formatted and spelled correctly) is not as impressive as an ounce of gold.

So you were really impressed by Noahfence's 11 words? Which ones in particular? Or was it the way they fit together that you found so sublime?

 

[NoahFence]

Wow. 11 words. Is that a new record?

While I'm at work waiting between jobs I have to be selective on which posts deserve my rapt attention and detailed rebuttals.

Yours was not one of them.

 

[sunmaster14]

While I'm at work waiting between jobs I have to be selective on which posts deserve my rapt attention and detailed rebuttals.

Yours was not one of them.

And yet DavidJames thinks you crapped out an ounce of gold. If you should ever write for a living, you already have one huge fan.

 

[NoahFence]

And yet DavidJames thinks you crapped out an ounce of gold. If you should ever write for a living, you already have one huge fan.

Here, if it placates your delicate sensibilities:

Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
No, it's the media's fault for focusing on the GOP candidates' verbal indiscretions and not on the Democratic candidates' gaffes.

Cow dung in that these verbal indiscretions can cause actual harm, not only to his candidacy, but to all of humanity. These are not just indiscretions, they are illegal.

Obama is not particularly articulate.

Cow dung in a way that doesn't even really need to be explained. If you can't see how absurd that statement is, you're beyond help. But who cares? He's not running.

Neither is Hillary actually.

Cow dung. She's light years ahead of the competition.

They both make plenty of gaffes, but they tend to go unremarked in the media. And then when you do get a gaffe machine which is impossible to ignore (e.g. Biden), the media treats his verbal diarrhea as something charming.

Cow dung. Everybody who speaks in front of the country for a living is going to make the occasional gaffe. Trump's are daily. Not "occasional"

 

[Segnosaur]

I wonder why this Khan thing is alienating so many Republicans when Republicans did the same thing to Cindy Sheehan.

I think there are several key differences, both in the goals and actions of Khan and Sheehan.

Khan seems to carry himself well... makes reasoned arguments, recognizes the value of politics, and wants to see one political candidate (Trump) loose and election.

By comparison, Sheehan is a train-wreck... claiming she'd rather "Live under Chavez than Bush", stopped paying taxes because she "sacrificed enough", calling for the impeachment of Bush, engaging in publicity stunts such as wearing a "war dead" T-shirt at Bush's swearing-in, etc. Even if someone thinks "the Invasion was wrong", some people might have a hard time viewing Sheehan as more than a side-show attraction.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Yes, he does refuse to apologize for gaffes. Is that so bad?

A gaffe is a poorly worded or not well thought out statement that politician then retracts or distances themselves from. If he doesn't apologize for saying something and instead doubles down on the stupid thing he says, then it is no longer a gaffe it is a position.

That is the problem, instead of his stupid mistakes being gaffes, they are his positions.

 

[pgwenthold]

YES!

We aren't talking about being some dickbag in a corporate board room here. Anyone who is such a stranger to diplomacy is absolutely unfit to be President of these United States, who has to take on the chin the gaffes of the entire nation. The way Trump acts, he'd get us into a war within a month, because he'd rather that than admit he was wrong about something and bruise his tender ego. In which regard it doesn't help that he keeps asking why we haven't used nukes already.

I actually like politicians who speak their mind, who say what they honestly believe rather than what they think we want to hear and is safe to say. But that needs to be tempered with a capacity to recognize and defuse the situation when people take offense. In any conflict, no matter how minor, they need to be the better person, to at least attempt to hold the moral high ground. I don't see that in Trump.

The problem Trump has is that these things he is saying AREN'T "gaffes." They actually reflect what he thinks. Why should he apologize for that?

Saying there are 57 states is a gaffe, a blunder. Whoops, of course not. Saying that John McCain is not a hero because he got captured is not a gaffe, it's exactly what meant. Saying that the "second amendment folks" might have a solution to Clinton stacking the Supreme Court is not a blunder. Oh sure, SAYING IT might have been a huge mistake politically, but not because he didn't mean it. He just shouldn't have said it.

Remember back in 12 when the Indiana guy described an unwanted pregnancy as a gift from God and therefore should not be aborted. It was received very poorly, by all those who have any sense of decency (and it cost him the election). They tried to dismiss it as a "gaffe", or that he misspoke, but the problem was, it wasn't true. He didn't misspeak in the last. That is exactly what he believed. In fact, it is reported that he thought he nailed the response, and he and the staff were giving high fives backstage for it. The next day when the newspapers reported it, they were shocked to learn that women didn't think that getting pregnant after being raped was all that much of a gift. So it wasn't his words that were the problem, it was what he believed.

The same goes for Trump. It's not that he says stupid things. It's that he believes stupid things, and doesn't have the sense to not spout them. Hey, he's the one who keeps telling us that he is non-PC and just tells it like it is. Meanwhile, his defenders are trying to tell us that he doesn't really mean what he's saying, and that he misspeaks.

They apparently don't believe a word he says. And that's why they think he should be president.

 

[pgwenthold]

Some of us aren't impressed so much by the quantity of something as the quality.

For example, a ton of diarrhea (even if formatted and spelled correctly) is not as impressive as an ounce of gold.

As I have said, from a distance, a semi-load of manure might look impressive. However, when you get up close, you realize that's nothing more than a big pile of ****.

 

[Mycroft]

Khan will be able to command a fortune in speaking fees when this is over.

He should send Trump a Thank you note.

After the election.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I would like to send a shout out to the mods for correcting the name in the title. Thanks.

 

[timhau]

A gaffe is a poorly worded or not well thought out statement that politician then retracts or distances themselves from. If he doesn't apologize for saying something and instead doubles down on the stupid thing he says, then it is no longer a gaffe it is a position.

That is the problem, instead of his stupid mistakes being gaffes, they are his positions.

Me using a wrong preposition (as I frequently do), that's a gaffe.

Me defending the use of that preposition despite every native speaker telling me it's wrong, that's delusional.

Which one of these sounds more like The Donald?

 

[pgwenthold]

Me using a wrong preposition (as I frequently do), that's a gaffe.

Me defending the use of that preposition despite every native speaker telling me it's wrong, that's delusional.

Which one of these sounds more like The Donald?

Neither. Because no one criticizes Trump for using the wrong preposition. Because everyone knows that using the wrong preposition is just a gaffe.

When you refer to assassination as an approach for preventing your opponent from stacking the Supreme Court, that's that a gaffe. It's not your words that are the problem, it's what you said.

 

[acbytesla]

This seems to be the conventional wisdom on both sides of the aisle, and it is has been pressed relentlessly by the, um, ... press. But it is a shallow conclusion based on shallow evidence.

I find it sad and frankly a bizarre rationalization that you or anyone would continue with such an out of touch argument. There are some things you do not do and this would be high on that list. Frankly, it's politically moronic.

Trump can be baited into saying impolitic things. In fact, he doesn't even have to be baited. He says impolitic things unprompted all the time. He has the political equivalent of Tourette's syndrome. But is that a substantive failing?

Yes it is. In fact, I find it kind of amazing that you can think it isn't. I could forgive and maybe look passed a friend who was arrogantly inarticulate and obnoxious if he had other qualities I found redeeming. But Trump seems to have little or no redeeming qualities. "By all of his deeds and actions, he shall be known."

I know what Trump has done his entire life and he has done far more bad than good. I could catalog what this spoiled brat has done since he was a kid but I won't. Let's just say, it is one self centered deed after another. (That doesn't mean he hasn't done any good deeds, but he doesn't do many of them)

Perhaps it is in a President. I've always felt that was George W. Bush's greatest flaw. His inarticulateness made it difficult for him to justify his ideology and his decisions. If he had had the eloquence of Tony Blair, the Iraq War might have been seen as a triumph rather than a disaster.

Bush never had the problems Trump has. And I think this conclusion is flawed. Blair while articulate certainly never was able to sell that the war in Iraq was a triumph. Frankly, I doubt anyone from Lincoln to FDR to JFK could sell that.

On the other hand, eloquence is clearly of secondary importance. Tourette's syndrome might be a negative quality for a President to have, but it is hardly as bad as the press, and certain opportunists on the GOP side, are making it out to be.

While I agree with your first statement I disagree with your second.

Eloquence is of secondary importance, but what is of primary importance? Good judgment overall first in my book and honestly I see little good judgment from Trump. In fact his whole life he has been reckless in his actions and his words.

It is as bad as everyone is making it out to be. World markets rise and fall on the words of leaders. Decisions are made based on subtle interpretations. You can't have as your leader a man who doesn't have the common sense to keep his mouth shut when it's obvious he should.

For all of the fear and anger and hatred that has been directed at Trump, almost all of it is for stuff that he has said (usually imprecisely and with little or no thought) rather than for anything he has actually done (or will ever do, even if he were elected).

This is like thinking it's OK for a 4 year old to drive the family car especially when the 4 year old can't seem to walk 10 steps without knocking something over.

I can't help but be fascinated by this massive construction project of the political establishment, including the news media, of turning molehills into mountains. Of course, with respect to the news media, they do this every four years with Republican candidates. In this respect, Trump is probably an average Republican nominee. He is worse than the last one, but better than the next one.

LMAO. No, he is not. And it is absurd to suggest that he is. I graduated with a degree in political science. I've studied most Presidential political races in the last 120 years as well as many before that. There is absolutely nothing about Trump that is average. Even the length of his fingers.

Trump is a demagogue. The person Trump reminds me the most of is Joe McCarthy because of his recklessness and demagoguery. But McCarthy was never a Presidential nominee although there is no doubt he had aspirations.

 

[sunmaster14]

A gaffe is a poorly worded or not well thought out statement that politician then retracts or distances themselves from. If he doesn't apologize for saying something and instead doubles down on the stupid thing he says, then it is no longer a gaffe it is a position.

That is the problem, instead of his stupid mistakes being gaffes, they are his positions.

I wonder if the news media will consider the following to be a gaffe by Ted Strickland (D-OH), and if so, that he'll be forced to apologize:




Do you think he will? Do you think he should?