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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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EtienneSC said:
German laws in force prohibiting indiscriminate killings,
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Any reference to said German laws "prohibiting indiscriminate killings"?

Furthemore did these laws apply in territories like the General Government where the extermination camps were located or in the Soviet territories under control of the Wehrmacht where the Einsatzgruppen were completely free to carry on their mass killings? Is this statement not contradictory to the "Commissar Order" issued by the OKW (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht) on 6 June 1941? Finally how do you explain that despite "laws prohibiting indiscriminate killings" the Wehrmacht let more than 3 millions Soviet POWs starve to death?
 
LemmyCaution said:
And nearly 2 million Jews were shot in open-air massacres and up to another 700,000 perished as a result of overwork, starvation, or disease brought on by the conditions of their captivity.

It is important IMO to stress, given denier obsession with gas chambers, that just a bit more than half the Jewish victims in the Holocaust were killed in gas chambers or by gas vans - and of these a bit more than 35% were killed using Zyklon B.

Jim knows all this because we went over it last week - "You've already been corrected on this . . . up to 2 million Jews were shot, about 2.6 million were murdered in camps (about 1.5-1.6 million of these by engine exhaust, not Zyklon B), and about 0.7 million died from starvation, overwork, disease. Why do you insist on distorting what others have claimed?"

Jim's reply to being corrected the first time he offered this inept maxim was to ask for us to show 2 million shot - then, when shown evidence, to request photos, autopsies, etc. As Ivanesca says, Jim's using a very silly strawman that must be embarrassing even to deniers, a breed that does not embarrass easily.
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Not only that, but tens of thousands transported to the camps died on the trains or were shot inside them. For example... Over 300,000 Jews were deported to Treblinka in the summer of 1942, considering the conditions of chaos that existed at that time, I'd be inclined to wonder if even half of them made it as far as the gas chambers.
 
Degeneve said:
Any reference to said German laws "prohibiting indiscriminate killings"?

Furthemore did these laws apply in territories like the General Government where the extermination camps were located or in the Soviet territories under control of the Wehrmacht where the Einsatzgruppen were completely free to carry on their mass killings? ...
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In fact, no. There is an excellent, older study of Nazi special law for the east, written by Diemut Majer (“Non-Germans” Under The Third Reich: The Nazi Judicial and Administrative System in Germany and Occupied Eastern Europe, with Special Regard to Occupied Poland, 1939–1945); from the USHMM review:
Drawing extensively on German archival sources as well as on previously unexplored material from Poland and elsewhere in eastern Europe, Majer shows with chilling detail how the National Socialist government maintained a superficial legal continuity with the Weimar Republic while expanding the legal definition of Fremdvölkische, to ultimately give itself legal sanction for the actions undertaken in the Holocaust. Replete with revealing quotations from secret decrees, instructions, orders, and reports, this major work of scholarship offers a sobering assessment of the theory and practice of law in Nazi Germany.
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The book's focus is on how divergences in the law for the east became "special law" for so-called enemy people and subject populations. I highly recommend this book, which comprehensively eviscerates EtienneC's attempt here (warning: Maier's book is detailed - "long winded" as some of us might charge - and runs over 1,000 pp).
 
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LemmyCaution said:
In fact, no. There is an excellent, older study of Nazi special law for the east, written by Diemut Majer (“Non-Germans” Under The Third Reich: The Nazi Judicial and Administrative System in Germany and Occupied Eastern Europe, with Special Regard to Occupied Poland, 1939–1945); from the USHMM review:
The book's focus is on how divergences in the law for the east became "special law" for so-called enemy people and subject populations. I highly recommend this book, which eviscerates EtienneC's attempt here.
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More recently, for German-readers there's also

Maximilian Becker, Mitstreiter im Volkstumskampf: deutsche Justiz in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten 1939-1945. Munich: De Gruyter Oldenbourg, 2014

which synthesises much previous research on the emergence of parallel judicial systems (special courts) and the judicial state of emergency that emerged, 'justifying' the use of police-run summary courts (Standgerichte). The most famous of these met every so often in the main camp of Auschwitz and sentenced suspects to death at the rate of one every few minutes, before they were taken out to be shot at the 'Death Wall' by Block 11.
 
Nick Terry said:
More recently, for German-readers there's also

Maximilian Becker, Mitstreiter im Volkstumskampf: deutsche Justiz in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten 1939-1945. Munich: De Gruyter Oldenbourg, 2014

which synthesises much previous research on the emergence of parallel judicial systems (special courts) and the judicial state of emergency that emerged, 'justifying' the use of police-run summary courts (Standgerichte). The most famous of these met every so often in the main camp of Auschwitz and sentenced suspects to death at the rate of one every few minutes, before they were taken out to be shot at the 'Death Wall' by Block 11.
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Which reminds me, in the light of LeoMajor's mention of Konrad Morgen in this context, that Pauer-Studer & Velleman have written an insightful study of Morgen, Konrad Morgen: The Conscience of a Nazi Judge (2015). They show that the investigations of murder (and corruption) among KL officials which Morgen conducted eventually led to his being sidelined by Himmler, who was ultimately unable to square his idea of a clean SS with the reality of its missions and practices. Morgen opted to attack corruption and individual murders because he was stonewalled on murder programs in the camps, being told that they were off limits to his investigations. Starting here is a discussion of the book's conclusions, ranging from Morgen's investigations of the use of excessive force by German policeman in occupied Galicia to corruption and murder in the KLs, from Morgen's SS career and remit to his awareness of the Final Solution - and in this post is a brief account of Morgen's demise as an SS judge.

Already we have shown in several ways, from how law was developed and applied to actual behavior of SS and other German forces how EtienneSC's claims of clean occupations and observation of conventional German legal norms by the Nazis during the war is nothing but wishful thinking uninformed by widely available and discussed evidence.
 
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Dash80 said:
Long winded... LOL

In other words, when confronted with detailed, well written and knowledgeable posts about the Holocaust... deniers like you can't process it.
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Actually when confronted with nonsense I choose to get bored very quickly. You can't win when Skeptoids want to believe that 6 million Jews were killed in fake gas chambers using bug spray....perfectly rational information being dispense on this most irrational site...but hey this is what it is.
I see that some of you have posted here thousands of times....
Yikes....must be a lonely life for you out the in the real world, where some people deal with things rationally, and not emotionally.
I hope this doesn't get me banned for hurting someones feelings for telling it like it is....LOL

Jim Rizoli
CCFIILE.COM
IHR.ORG
VHO.ORG
HOLOCUSTHANDBOOKS.COM

These sites are where I believe some common sense is but the HoloHuxsters like to come here to peddle their nonsense. Those who have lost their sense of reality have to have somewhere to hang out.
 
Love the HoloHoax nonsense....

Degeneve said:
Well, in fact it is perfectly factual information which dispensed on this site.
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I guess this nonsense if factual to nonsensical people.....

120 ft piles of clothes, 75 ft piles of shoes so says # 1 witnesses
Kurt the liar Gerstein who was quoted many times by the HoloHuxster writers, hair being made into mattresses, soap out of jew fat, skin out of lampshades...... can't forget those shrunken heads that mysteriously disappeared after being shown at the Nuremberg trial....ZB gas pellets being thrown onto the floor through holes that weren't there and poof a cloud of gas that kills people in 5-15 minutes.
Jews being electrocuted in Belzec, 850,000 killed in Treblinka by diesel gas, buried, dug up and put on huge hibachis and burned to ashes on that hibachi, then the ashes are spread where?
Today there are NO mass graves but the Holohuxsters point to small graves and think that millions of people are buried there.
Yup, these are the things that rational people are forced to believe and if they don't they go to jail in 21 countries. Pretty soon people will be jailed for NOT believing in Santa Claus...
Then the Holohuxsters find their way to this site that they can all hang out and spew their nonsense for all to see and they complain like hell if people come here and expose their nonsense....
I'm just glad I see how the HoloHoax scam works and who and what is behind it.
People would find it hard to comprehend that a Skeptic site like this will question every other topic under the sun but go along hook line and sinker with the HoloHoax and not question one thing about it.

Not one thing!

Yes you have to love the HoloHoax topic it's definitely a topic that questions the sanity of those that believe in Hoaxes....

Jim Rizoli
CCFIILE.COM
 
I feel the need, once again, to remind our confused newcomer that a Polish investigative commission found a gigantic amount of human remains at Treblinka in 1945, that similar finds were made at Belzec and Chemno by similar commissions, and that Polish paramilitary and police forces found additional remains when responding to robbery diggers. I also cannot empathize enough that a Polish archaeologist, Andreaz Kola, found 33 mass graves at Belzec in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

I will copy, paste, and post this paragraph every time he feels the need to lie shamelessly to the viewers of this forum in the manner that he did above.
 
JimRizoli said:
I see that some of you have posted here thousands of times....
Yikes....must be a lonely life for you out the in the real world, where some people deal with things rationally, and not emotionally.
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Aaaaaand, where do you normally post again?
 
Edited by jsfisher: 
<snip> Content edited for compliance with Rule 11 of the Membership Agreement. Also, if there is an issue to be raised regarding the management of this forum, it should be raised in Forum Management Feedback, an area set aside specifically for that sort of thing.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
 
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About those MASS graves....how many people are you talking here and pictures please.
I have a problem believing in such nonsense without pictures....
Is there a reason why we DON'T have any pictures?

Well anyway......
Below is what they put to death 11 people for......so I guess it's just a minor thing right?
Being put to death for lies that was said about you.
I love the electrocution tale....LOL

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

Fake 'Gas Chamber'

Each year for decades, tens of thousands of visitors to Auschwitz have been shown an execution "gas chamber" in the main camp, supposedly in its "original state." In January 1995 the prestigious French weekly magazine L'Express acknowledged that "everything" about this "gas chamber" is "false," and that it is in fact a deceitful postwar reconstruction. [6]

Bizarre Tales

At one time it was seriously claimed that at Auschwitz Jews were systematically killed with electricity. American newspapers in February 1945, citing a Soviet eyewitness report from the recently-liberated camp, told readers that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an "electric conveyor belt on which hundreds of persons could be electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces. They were burned almost instantly, producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields." [7]

At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales.

Except the Skeptoids here....LOL

JR
 
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JimRizoli said:
About those MASS graves....how many people are you talking here and pictures please.
I have a problem believing in such nonsense without pictures....
Is there a reason why we DON'T have any pictures?
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We do have them, you're just too lazy to find them. I am not so ghoulish as to subject this forum to photographs and video that are easy to find of people being executed directly into their final resting place, but I know they exist.

I love the electrocution tale....LOL
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Yes. Yes I imagine you do.
 
JimRizoli said:
Actually when confronted with nonsense I choose to get bored very quickly. You can't win when Skeptoids want to believe that 6 million Jews were killed in fake gas chambers using bug spray....perfectly rational information being dispense on this most irrational site...but hey this is what it is.
I see that some of you have posted here thousands of times....
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Nobody here believes 6 million Jews were killed in chambers using "bug spray." That's your silly and ignorant assertion, in fact SEVERAL posters have pointed out how wrong you are.

Is this really all you have to say? Repeating yourself, despite being corrected numerous times? You're setting a very low standard for deniers here, not that most had any to begin with.
 
JimRizoli said:
About those MASS graves....how many people are you talking here and pictures please.
I have a problem believing in such nonsense without pictures....
Is there a reason why we DON'T have any pictures?

Well anyway......
Below is what they put to death 11 people for......so I guess it's just a minor thing right?
Being put to death for lies that was said about you.
I love the electrocution tale....LOL

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

Fake 'Gas Chamber'

Each year for decades, tens of thousands of visitors to Auschwitz have been shown an execution "gas chamber" in the main camp, supposedly in its "original state." In January 1995 the prestigious French weekly magazine L'Express acknowledged that "everything" about this "gas chamber" is "false," and that it is in fact a deceitful postwar reconstruction. [6]

Bizarre Tales

At one time it was seriously claimed that at Auschwitz Jews were systematically killed with electricity. American newspapers in February 1945, citing a Soviet eyewitness report from the recently-liberated camp, told readers that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an "electric conveyor belt on which hundreds of persons could be electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces. They were burned almost instantly, producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields." [7]

At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales.

Except the Skeptoids here....LOL

JR
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The crematorium and gas chamber in Auschwitz main camp was converted into an air raid shelter in 1944. From everything I've seen, there seems to have been no attempt to hide this fact or that the building was reconverted into it's pre-1944 configuration only after the war. Are you going to deny there was a crematorium in that building too?

Misinformation, distortions, rumors and such DO NOT prove millions of Jews weren't killed. The one thing you deniers seem to ignore is all these reports AGREE they were being murdered, no matter how fanciful the rumored method was.
 
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JimRizoli said:
I'm still waiting for proof.....
Not rhetoric...


Jim Rizoli
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Uhm, allow me to remind you of the burden of proof rule:

The party who challenges the accepted paradigm has the burden of proof.

This might seem unfair, but obviously, we can't keep rounding up proof of the same thing every time somebody shows up and says he won't believe it.

Now, whether you like it or not, the accepted paradigm is that the Nazi regime killed millions of Jews and other people. The evidence is publicly available, and it you want to review it, you can.

If you want to claim the the holocaust did NOT happen, you must either falsify the existing evidence or provide new evidence supporting your claim. All the rest of us need to do is wait till you do so (and not hold our breath).

Hans
 
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