General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[LemmyCaution]

The archaeological investigation at Belzec found 33 mass graves and evidence for even more. The Polish commission that investigated Treblinka found a huge amount of ashes and bones, as well as an area of 20,000 square meters that was covered in human remains. Polish militias guarding the site reported robbery digging, often in graves up to ten meters deep that yielded all manner of remains. That is not at all consistent with a "transit" camp.

Jim, the Mass Graves chapter I linked to covers the points made here by Leo M and more; Leo's reference to "the Polish commission" is none other than "Łukaszkiewicz's investigation of the camp site (1945)," which I mentioned. Like Leo, I encourage you to familiarize yourself with this material before sounding off further.

FYI - we are well acquainted with "revisionist" replies to this body of evidence. If you wish to put forward some revisionist argument, I encourage you to take some deep breaths and focus on the points you wish to debate. Wild CAPITALIZED exasperation and breathless outrage do not constitute evidence and argument.

 

[JimRizoli]

I'm reading the Trial transcripts from the 1985 Zundel Trial and thought you HoloHuxsters might like the fact that Raul Hillberg under questioning from Doug Christie didn't have any problem with Gerstein saying that he saw piles of clothing at Treblinka 120 ft high....
I guess you HoloHuxsters here have no problem with that......LOL
He also had no issues with the 25 million bodies that Gerstein said being killed at Treblinka and Belzcec....Yikes! And we "deniers" are the wrong ones here....LOL

Gerstein was out of his mind and Raul Hillberg was right behind him..
Yup there were 6 million Jews killed in fake gas chambers with bug spray......sounds reasonable to me.

JR

 

[Elagabalus]

... At Triblinka the same, but maybe a little less than a million, so we are talking about 20,000,000 teeth, where are they? Miss Corliss lady archeologist found one sharks tooth in all of her diggings at Treblinka. At 850,000 murders you would think there would be at least ONE human tooth...lol.....Eric Hunt in his Treblinka video exposed the many many falsehoods of that Treblinka propaganda video. He exposed ALL the nonsense. Of course who here would even watch it, they are looking for those teeth. He when you get a chance go find the video ONETHIRDTHEHOLOCAUST. This should keep you busy for a while, maybe by them you'll all come to you holohax senses.....

Eric Hunt did no such thing. Here's a link to page 7of this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11293987#post11293987

And another:
[http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&hilit=showers#p393589

 

[Belz...]

Yup there were 6 million Jews killed in fake gas chambers with bug spray......sounds reasonable to me.

Your incredulity is not an argument.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . no issues with the 25 million bodies that Gerstein said being killed at Treblinka and Belzcec . . .Gerstein was out of his mind and Raul Hillberg was right behind him..

Please, what number of Jews did Hilberg estimate perished at Treblinka and Belzec? Hint: his estimate is about 1/20 what you imply here. Shame on you for that.

Yup there were 6 million Jews killed in fake gas chambers with bug spray......sounds reasonable to me.

You've already been corrected on this - leaving aside "bug spray" - up to 2 million Jews were shot, about 2.6 million were murdered in camps (about 1.5-1.6 million of these by engine exhaust, not Zyklon B), and about 0.7 million died from starvation, overwork, disease. Why do you insist on distorting what others have claimed?

The "6 million gassed" claim is tired even for deniers, and more sophisticated deniers have given up on it, it's so transparently silly. Now, we get that you have, shall we say, doubts; what you've failed to do is explain them or puncture scholar's studies.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Eric Hunt did no such thing. Here's a link to page 7of this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11293987#post11293987

And another:
[http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&hilit=showers#p393589

Some of Hunt's major failures, among many, were
(1) trying to pass off Heinz Rosenberg's reference to a steam room in Minsk as steam facilities in Treblinka
(2) insisting that Heinz Rosenberg was transported to Treblinka when in all likelihood he was taken to Sobibor
(3) double and triple counting individuals on transports that passed by/through Treblinka and wildly overestimating the numbers of Jews who went by/through Treblinka to other camps (fewer than 2,400 out of about 800,000 deportees to Treblinka - whereas Hunt first claimed at least 10,000 and finally 10s and 10s of 1000s)
(4) failing to take account of the fact that the small number of Jewish transports that passed by/through Treblinka were in 1943, not at the height of the camp's killing work in 1942
(5) pretending that no historians have discussed the small transports of Jews from Treblinka to Lublin camps before Hunt's video
and much more, detailed in the second link above.

 

[JimRizoli]

Please, what number of Jews did Hilberg estimate perished at Treblinka and Belzec? Hint: his estimate is about 1/20 what you imply here. Shame on you for that.


You've already been corrected on this - leaving aside "bug spray" - up to 2 million Jews were shot, about 2.6 million were murdered in camps (about 1.5-1.6 million of these by engine exhaust, not Zyklon B), and about 0.7 million died from starvation, overwork, disease. Why do you insist on distorting what others have claimed?

The "6 million gassed" claim is tired even for deniers, and more sophisticated deniers have given up on it, it's so transparently silly. Now, we get that you have, shall we say, doubts; what you've failed to do is explain them or puncture scholar's studies.

Can you show me the 2 million who were shot and where?
Also a forensics paper trail would be nice....At least at Katyn they showed the bodies and the bullet wounds in the head....
I'm not saying no one was shot just the numbers are way out of wack by 1000 times. Plus the Jews who were shot deserved to be shot for their treasonas goings on. If they lived in the USA and did the same things (undermining the German war machine) or doing the same in the US ...they would of been shot here too. Good riddens to them.

I love when you HoloHuxsters quote all these large numbers and have NO proof to where these people were buried.....
So you just say x millions were killed and we skeptics are to believe it?
Sorry jack not going to happen I will need more proof than that.
I'm skepticl about a lot of things and thought I would be on a website that would have more skeptics on it but for some reason there is no skeptism here just believe what we tell you or else.
Is the moon made of cheese? LOL Might be to some HoloHuxsters here.
JR

 

[JimRizoli]

On the contrary, every denialist assertion has been thoroughly demolished here with well grounded historical references.

You folks here are delusional....LOL
You haven't show me ANYTHING except pictures that don't prove anything....
Lets see you use anyone of those pictures in court they would laugh you out of court....LOL

JR

 

[HDenier]

You folks here are delusional....LOL
You haven't show me ANYTHING except pictures that don't prove anything....
Lets see you use anyone of those pictures in court they would laugh you out of court....LOL

JR

So true, I just went over to the answers skeptoids gave about Eric Hunts video and read a blurb mentioning that the Germans did whatever to "HIDE" their crimes. Whenever I see that the person disputing Eric Hunts video on Treblinka uses that term hide then I know the person is writing BS. These skeptoids seem to have found the secret to all the Germans killings and gassing and bad treatment of people to the fact that they tried to "hide" their crimes.

Makes me laugh and see right from the getgo these skeptods know nothing about what they are talking about. Why would the Germans want to HIDE anything? Why would the sign over Auschwitz not mean what it said? Oh that's right the Germans used "coded words", you people are missing some of your brain cells. Still looking for the 20 million teeth and the mass graves.....Being here posting is like being in an insane asylum, this is getting to be fun....I really mean it..... This is a SKEPTIC forum? Using the same BS that the holocausters have used to lie to us for 70 years....

 

[LemmyCaution]

Can you show me the 2 million who were shot and where?

What does this question even mean? Best I can figure, you want something like this map from the USHMM - and this one on the Baltics, this one for Ukraine. And here is an animated USHMM map.

And here are the sites recently investigated by one organization, Yahad-in Unum.

Also a forensics paper trail would be nice....At least at Katyn they showed the bodies and the bullet wounds in the head....

I've linked you to physical evidence for a number of the massacres, and supplemented that evidence with other kinds of evidence. Let's hear your comments on what's already been provided.

I'm not saying no one was shot just the numbers are way out of wack by 1000 times.

How so? Let's hear your case for the three cases I've given you material on - Babi Yar, Ponary, and Liepaja.

Plus the Jews who were shot deserved to be shot for their treasonas goings on.

Please provide evidence that the Jews who were shot - or not shot depending on your mood - deserved to be killed. Evidence, trial transcripts, judgments of individual guilt for specific crimes. Tell us how many Jews were deserving of death, who they were, what crime they committed, what evidence was used to prove them guilty, and how each case was adjudicated before the death penalty was carried out. Lest you think I'm being unreasonable, during 1942 and 1943 fascist Italy several times made the same demand of the German and Vichy police when it came to turning over to them Jews accused of crime.

If they lived in the USA and did the same things (undermining the German war machine) or doing the same in the US ...they would of been shot here too. Good riddens to them.

Ok, we understand now that you approve of the genocide. May I ask why you approve of the mass murder of Jews?

That's your prerogative. But you don't get to throw around unsubstantiated charges - let's go back to the cases cited above, tell us please what the murdered Jews who were shot at Babi Yar, Ponary, and Liepaja did to "undermine the German war machine" and how you know.

I love when you HoloHuxsters quote all these large numbers and have NO proof to where these people were buried.....
So you just say x millions were killed and we skeptics are to believe it?

Not at all. I've been trying to get you to discuss specifics. You seem allergic to them.

I will need more proof than that.
I'm skepticl about a lot of things and thought I would be on a website that would have more skeptics on it but for some reason there is no skeptism here just believe what we tell you or else.

Well, take off your tinfoil hat and put on your skeptic's cap - then review the material in the books and links I and others provided you regarding the mass shootings in the east and tell us what problems you see. Specifically.

Is the moon made of cheese? LOL Might be to some HoloHuxsters here.

Do try to grow up and make specific, evidence-based arguments.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Whenever I see that the person disputing Eric Hunts video on Treblinka uses that term hide then I know the person is writing BS.

How do you "know" this?

These skeptoids seem to have found the secret to all the Germans killings and gassing and bad treatment of people to the fact that they tried to "hide" their crimes.

You sound incredibly silly: it is not unusual for perpetrators to try to conceal their acts, nor for governments to conduct sensitive operations out of public view, especially when those operations are "controversial" and potentially damaging to officials.

Why would the Germans want to HIDE anything?

Because, among other reasons, the war turned against them. Also, because concealing their intent made it easier to manage the victims before their deaths.

you people are missing some of your brain cells.

Do you mistake these sorts of gratuitous and unfounded insults for argument?

How are you coming with that list of books you say you've read?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Jim - you failed to answer this question, "Please, what number of Jews did Hilberg estimate perished at Treblinka and Belzec? Hint: his estimate is about 1/20 what you imply here. Shame on you for that." Also, do you still insist that historians say that 6 million Jews were gassed to death with Zyklon B? Thanks, LC

 

[JimRizoli]

Actually I'm trying to work with you guys here but you refuse to answer my questions so I'm not going to bother with yours.
Yes folks according to the Holohucksters here 6 million Jews died in fake gas Chambers using bug spray sounds reasonable to me.

JR

 

[HDenier]

But the real question dealt with the answers NO and NO

So, as usual, the Holocaust deniers are misleading people about the nature of the trial and it's verdict.

This discussion about DeJaco and Ertl ends with the most missed part of the trial and of course our blood lust holocausters missed so here are the questions again.

1. Do the plans indicate that these were gas chambers? His answer...NO

2. Could the accused infer from the plans that they could be transformed later into gas chambers? Here also was the answer NO...

So according to our blood lust holohuxters trying to weave a different narrative about this trial saying these guys were "mislead" is nonsense... How you can even make that statement is laughable because even IF they were mislead their answers said they couldn't be TRANSFERRED into gas chambers... So there goes that stupid argument...
No Holes, no holocaust....The only holes are in the blood lust hoaxers heads....

 

[turingtest]

...
I'm skepticl about a lot of things and thought I would be on a website that would have more skeptics on it but for some reason there is no skeptism here just believe what we tell you or else.
...

Of all the crap memes woosters of all stripes love to throw out, this one is the silliest, the most childish. What- your ideas are immune to skepticism? Are we just supposed to believe what you tell us? Skepticism is a process that begins at home; you treat it as a conclusion synonymous by definition with your own.

But, hey- have at it. As long as you edgy folks have no other presence or influence than the Internet, no harm done. Party on, dude.

 

[HDenier]

What books of scholary design do you hoaxes recomned?

What books of scholarly design do you hoaxes recommend?

Come on guys and girls give me the cream of the crop of liar books you might recommend that I might be able to change my "denial". Who knows I may already have them. I love seeing the nonsense and the contradictions in these books. After all was it Kurt Gerstein who said 40 Million were gassed and that there was a 120 foot pile of shoes? If one was to deny his testimony then one would be a holocaust denier? Are you guys deniers yet you should be.....

Let's see what you guys are reading besides the funny pages....Ill tell you what I have read.

One quick book, America Views the Holocaust, 1933-1945. A Brief Documentary History, by Robert H. Abzug.

He mentions Dachau, Buchenwald, and Bergen Belsen WERE NOT EXTERMINATION CAMPS.....pp 192......

OOPS..that sure can ruin a holohauxters day.....
That would mean there was NO FINAL SOLUTION in those camps..lol....

 

[Elagabalus]

So, as usual, the Holocaust deniers are misleading people about the nature of the trial and it's verdict.

This discussion about DeJaco and Ertl ends with the most missed part of the trial and of course our blood lust holocausters missed so here are the questions again.

1. Do the plans indicate that these were gas chambers? His answer...NO

2. Could the accused infer from the plans that they could be transformed later into gas chambers? Here also was the answer NO...

So according to our blood lust holohuxters trying to weave a different narrative about this trial saying these guys were "mislead" is nonsense... How you can even make that statement is laughable because even IF they were mislead their answers said they couldn't be TRANSFERRED into gas chambers... So there goes that stupid argument...
No Holes, no holocaust....The only holes are in the blood lust hoaxers heads....

A'isha already addressed these questions in her answer to you. You should probably read it again. Maybe read it out loud so the words will sink in.

 

[trustbutverify]

You folks here are delusional....LoL
JR

Your racist nonsense has been thoroughly and clearly demolished, and childish chuckling won't help you now. Denialist credibility lies somewhere between creationism and flat-Earth-ism.

 

[Elagabalus]

What books of scholarly design do you hoaxes recommend?

Come on guys and girls give me the cream of the crop of liar books you might recommend that I might be able to change my "denial". Who knows I may already have them. I love seeing the nonsense and the contradictions in these books. After all was it Kurt Gerstein who said 40 Million were gassed and that there was a 120 foot pile of shoes? If one was to deny his testimony then one would be a holocaust denier? Are you guys deniers yet you should be.....

Let's see what you guys are reading besides the funny pages....Ill tell you what I have read.

One quick book, America Views the Holocaust, 1933-1945. A Brief Documentary History, by Robert H. Abzug.

He mentions Dachau, Buchenwald, and Bergen Belsen WERE NOT EXTERMINATION CAMPS.....pp 192......

OOPS..that sure can ruin a holohauxters day.....
That would mean there was NO FINAL SOLUTION in those camps..lol....

Here ya' go hot-shot. A little Jean-Claude Pressac

https://web.archive.org/web/2011071...sac/technique-and-operation/pressac0497.shtml

 

[Nick Terry]

What books of scholarly design do you hoaxes recommend?

Earlier you said, "I have in the last 20 years spent some good money on quite a few holocaust books"

Several people have asked what books you have read. If you spent 'good money' on 'quite a few' books then you should be able to reel off the names easily.

One quick book, America Views the Holocaust, 1933-1945. A Brief Documentary History, by Robert H. Abzug.

So that's one.

He mentions Dachau, Buchenwald, and Bergen Belsen WERE NOT EXTERMINATION CAMPS.....pp 192......

OOPS..that sure can ruin a holohauxters day.....
That would mean there was NO FINAL SOLUTION in those camps..lol....

Newsflash: the Holocaust is used to refer to the entire era of persecution and murder of European Jews by the Nazis and their accomplices from 1933 to 1945. Abzug's book title uses the term 'Holocaust' in precisely this sense, because it covers 1933 to 1945. This is quite standard.

The Holocaust is therefore broader than just the Final Solution or direct extermination.

One reason why: it encompasses persecution and murder by Axis states such as Romania and Croatia, who had independent policies not part of the Nazi Final Solution.

It's hardly news that Dachau, Buchenwald and Belsen were not extermination camps, nonetheless 10s of 1000s of Jews died in those concentration camps due to being persecuted as Jews, and therefore died in the Holocaust.