Ed Is Humayun Khan Trump's Turning Point?

[acbytesla]

Backfire in the sense that it will increase his probability of winning the election rather than decrease it. How long do we have to wait? For the polls to stabilize in a couple of weeks, although it is difficult to attribute a move in the polls to any one factor. There is no doubt in my mind that the Khantroversy hurts Trump's polling in the short run. Polls often reflect how the respondents feel about the most recent news, and may not even reflect how somebody actually plans to vote on Nov. 8. For example, even a Republican who plans to bite the bullet and vote for Trump might answer that he'll vote for Hillary or a 3rd party candidate right now as a way of sending a message to the Trump campaign to reverse course. I would do that, although in my case it's a bit more complicated.

Anyway, I think it will backfire because, in the end, the attacks on Trump are way, way out of proportion to the offense. It might take a couple of weeks for that to sink into the collective consciousness. With the passage of time, I think people do tend to become more dispassionate about their analyses. Maybe some will even think that the inability of Trump to react the way a normal politician would, i.e. disingenuously, is a positive attribute. Makes him easier to understand or read.

The problem is that there is no way I'll be able to prove or disprove my proposition. If Hillary expands her lead in the polls over the next two weeks, I think it will provide evidence that I was wrong, but it won't be dispositive. The same goes for the case where her lead contracts again. Obviously, there are lots of other issues buffeting both campaigns.

Ultimately, though, Hillary is in a tough position if the spotlight ever moves to her again. The entire rationale for her candidacy is a paradox. She is the quintessential establishment candidate in an anti-establishment election year. She represents a continuation of the policies of the last 8 years, even though the majority of the electorate wants to see a big change in course. Her claim to have the experience to be President is undermined by the disastrous consequences of her tenure as the nation's chief diplomat. Her claim to be the safe choice for President is undermined by her incompetence in handling classified data and her corruption in covering it up. And her claim to be steadfast and resolute is undermined by her total capitulation to the left wing of her party in order to fend off Bernie's challenge.

Hillary's campaign is like a car with no brakes that is headed towards a cliff. Trump's campaign is like an electric car headed towards that same cliff, but with Trump's foot stomped on the accelerator. The moment he takes his foot off (and I'm not saying it will happen), his car will slow dramatically (due to regenerative braking) while Hillary sails on and over.

I really wonder if you believe all you just wrote? Needless to say I think this is rationalization and delusional hope that all this is not happening.

This is the end my friend. There is no coming back from continuing to attack a gold star mother and father. The outrage is NOT disproportionate to the act and unlike previous outrageous actions of Trump, the effects of this blunder are not temporary. He is not merely offending others with his lunacy, he is alienating them permanently.

Trump rose with his sword of lunacy and is now dying from the same sword.

 

[Crossbow]

If she won the nomination. Which she didn't. Why do you continue to misrepresent what I said? It is extremely dishonest.

You only have yourself to blame since you are the one who continues to stand by your screwy posting.

You never did explain how someone who is unbeatable in a general election is also quite beatable in the primary election.

 

[sunmaster14]

I really wonder if you believe all you just wrote? Needless to say I think this is rationalization and delusional hope that all this is not happening.

For the record, I always believe what I write. That is one reason why I maintain my anonymity here. So that I feel free to be honest and see what feedback results. I am not here to change minds. I am here to test my opinions and beliefs. It would be self-defeating to be dishonest.

This is the end my friend. There is no coming back from continuing to attack a gold star mother and father. The outrage is NOT disproportionate to the act and unlike previous outrageous actions of Trump, the effects of this blunder are not temporary. He is not merely offending others with his lunacy, he is alienating them permanently.

You may be right, but I think also many people might question why a Gold Star mother and father deserve such deference. Does being a parent of a fallen hero really give you license to attack people with impunity? Especially if the attacks are so logically fallacious? What happens when there are two parents who disagree, as in the case of Casey Sheehan, who died in combat right around the same time as Humayan Khan? Does the mother's moral authority trump the father's, as Maureen Dowd appeared to argue when she claimed that Cindy Sheehan had absolute moral authority? How about if other Gold Star parents disagree, as hundreds, if not thousands, likely do? Also, might not the incongruity with the media's treatment of Hillary versus Sean Smith's mother, and indirectly, Tyrone Woods' father, start to seep into the public consciousness as evidence of media bias and double standards?

Trump's real mistake was in violating a taboo that his own party upholds. This makes it easy for the opposing party to attack him, and he will have no defenders, just dog-pilers. But perhaps most people will recognize that Hillary violates the same taboos, and that she doesn't catch the same level of flak for it because her party will defend her, and not contribute to the dog-pile.

 

[Meadmaker]

Hillary's campaign is like a car with no brakes that is headed towards a cliff. Trump's campaign is like an electric car headed towards that same cliff, but with Trump's foot stomped on the accelerator. The moment he takes his foot off (and I'm not saying it will happen), his car will slow dramatically (due to regenerative braking) while Hillary sails on and over.

I think your analysis is flawed, and the flaw is right there in the part that you are not saying will happen.


There are some of us who do not hate Republicans in general, but hate Donald Trump with a passion. The reason we hate him is that he is the type that cannot take his foot off of that metaphorical accelerator. That's who he is. He's so bad about it because he can't even pretend the way other politicians can.

What we are seeing in the attacks on Khan are not some anomaly or misstep. That's who he is.

Yes, the outrage about this particular incident will die down, and then there will be another incident. It might not be quite so damaging as this one, but he really can't help himself. He can't help himself as a candidate. He will not be able to help himself if he is president.

 

[varwoche]

Trump rose with his sword of lunacy and is now dying from the same sword.

One might say he's been hoisted on his own retard.

 

[Armitage72]

Oh my GOD! Hillary made concessions. Isn't that the hallmark of a good negotiator? Isn't that the one and only thing Trump supporters can point to as a positive trait for Teh Don?

Negotiation and compromise are seen as a sign of weakness. Haven't the last 7+ years made that abundantly clear?

A church near my home once had a sign out front that said "Satan likes to compromise. God demands unconditional victory."

 

[sunmaster14]

You only have yourself to blame since you are the one who continues to stand by your screwy posting.

You never did explain how someone who is unbeatable in a general election is also quite beatable in the primary election.

Actually, I had, even though it's obvious. In a general election campaign, name recognition, organization, and money are not huge stumbling blocks, because you would have an entire political party's apparatus at your disposal, as well as close attention from the media. Carly had to fight her way just to get onto the main stage, but she had little money or organization, and it was hard for anybody to get any media exposure with Trump sucking up all of the oxygen. If she had actually won the nomination, however, it would be her articulateness, her discipline, and her knowledge which would become the most important factors.

 

[NoahFence]

Negotiation and compromise are seen as a sign of weakness. Haven't the last 7+ years made that abundantly clear?

A church near my home once had a sign out front that said "Satan likes to compromise. God demands unconditional victory."

Which is funny, because that's supposedly Trump's, for lack of a better term, trump card. Negotiating.

 

[phiwum]

There's no way to prove a 50-year-old "fake" diagnosis. Even two doctors looking at the same xray might honestly disagree. What is most likely is that, after a little coaching, Trump told a compliant doc "My foot hurts right here when I walk," and the doc said, "That looks like heel spurs. No 'Nam for you." If you are old enough, you might remember that there were workshops about how to get out of the draft, and there were doctors who considered it their professional duty to keep their patients from getting killed. The key fact is that Trump's "condition" didn't inhibit participation in multiple demanding sports or working in his dad's even more demanding construction and real estate businesses. The real test would have been if Trump had reported for a draft physical (or tried to enlist -- fat chance!) and been rejected by an Army doc; but he made sure that could never happen.

Sure, perfectly plausible that Trump found an agreeable doctor.

But we shouldn't say the diagnosis was fake without evidence.

Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Actually, I had, even though it's obvious. In a general election campaign, name recognition, organization, and money are not huge stumbling blocks, because you would have an entire political party's apparatus at your disposal, as well as close attention from the media. Carly had to fight her way just to get onto the main stage, but she had little money or organization, and it was hard for anybody to get any media exposure with Trump sucking up all of the oxygen. If she had actually won the nomination, however, it would be her articulateness, her discipline, and her knowledge which would become the most important factors.

You have clarified your position quite well and anyone who twists this around should be kicked in the ankles. I agree that had she been able to move further along, had trump not been involved, Fiorina would have been a strong candidate. Her abrasive and confrontational approach would have given teeth to a Kasich ticket.

That said, it's off topic and I think we can be done with her in this thread now.

 

[Crossbow]

Actually, I had, even though it's obvious. In a general election campaign, name recognition, organization, and money are not huge stumbling blocks, because you would have an entire political party's apparatus at your disposal, as well as close attention from the media. Carly had to fight her way just to get onto the main stage, but she had little money or organization, and it was hard for anybody to get any media exposure with Trump sucking up all of the oxygen. If she had actually won the nomination, however, it would be her articulateness, her discipline, and her knowledge which would become the most important factors.

Why thank you so very much for that brilliant explanation.

Hopefully, the stupid, idiotic, lying Republicans will be slightly better in the future and will therefore put forth a candidate of such high caliber in the future.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

You may be right, but I think also many people might question why a Gold Star mother and father deserve such deference. Does being a parent of a fallen hero really give you license to attack people with impunity?

First, Gold Star families have offered their own flesh and blood as sacrificial lambs on the altar of American Democracy. We honor the sacrifice they made. That Bush put us in the position of slaughtering our babies for nothing is a separate discussion.

Second, the "vicious attacks" were a direct response to hurtful, hateful language from Trump.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Which is funny, because that's supposedly Trump's, for lack of a better term, trump card. Negotiating.

But a slightly different school of negotiating, one that doesn't even recognize the concept of compromise. Like buying a used car.

Have you ever seen that reality show about New York real estate agents, who are to a man Class-A d-bags, who bluff and bluster and dickwave and draw lines in the sand and whose only redeeming element is that everyone they deal with are also classic jagoffs who deserve their company?

That kind of "negotiation."

 

[NoahFence]

But a slightly different school of negotiating, one that doesn't even recognize the concept of compromise. Like buying a used car.

Have you ever seen that reality show about New York real estate agents, who are to a man Class-A d-bags, who bluff and bluster and dickwave and draw lines in the sand and whose only redeeming element is that everyone they deal with are also classic jagoffs who deserve their company?

That kind of "negotiation."

LOL

He thinks that'll play well on the world stage.

Trump / Pence '16 - Humanitarian Crisis in waiting!

 

[acbytesla]

You may be right, but I think also many people might question why a Gold Star mother and father deserve such deference.

Those people are emotionally obtuse. The Khans paid the ultimate patriotic sacrifice for this nation. Agree with their political stance or disagree, it will never be viewed as right to attack them. You can disagree, but beyond that you risk dishonoring their sacrifice.

Does being a parent of a fallen hero really give you license to attack people with impunity? Especially if the attacks are so logically fallacious?

The Khan's attack on Trump was not logically fallacious as I pointed out to you yesterday about the very first line in the Bill of Rights or did you forget? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Trump's real mistake was in violating a taboo that his own party upholds. This makes it easy for the opposing party to attack him, and he will have no defenders, just dog-pilers. But perhaps most people will recognize that Hillary violates the same taboos, and that she doesn't catch the same level of flak for it because her party will defend her, and not contribute to the dog-pile.

Pretty much every politician with any brains has this taboo. Attacking any parent who has given their son or daughter for this nation is abhorrent. It shows disrespect for a great sacrifice.

You need to get outside your bubble. Your attempts to say that the media is applying a double standard is absurd and patently false. Trump doesn't just shoot himself in the foot, he does it over and over. While some people find Trump's outrageousness to be appealing, everyone has a line where it's simply too much. This was too much. What's more it gives people permission to think he's said a lot of things that are too much.

 

[Mader Levap]

Anyway, I think it will backfire because, in the end, the attacks on Trump are way, way out of proportion to the offense.

What response could be appropriate, in your opinion, for someone undermining the very democratic process of USA?

 

[Bob001]

Sure, perfectly plausible that Trump found an agreeable doctor.

But we shouldn't say the diagnosis was fake without evidence.

Is that so hard to understand?

No one can say for sure it was fake. But considering all the facts and the atmosphere of the times, it certainly looks suspicious and we can say so, just as we can raise questions about Trump's shady business dealings, even if nobody went to jail.

The key relevant fact is that, even as Trump wraps himself in the mantle of patriotism as the veterans' best friend and sneers at true war heroes and Gold Star families as "losers," Trump never made himself available for the draft (let alone tried to enlist), and went to extensive efforts to avoid it. He can be judged for that, whether or not his feet hurt.

 

[Bob001]

But a slightly different school of negotiating, one that doesn't even recognize the concept of compromise. Like buying a used car.

Have you ever seen that reality show about New York real estate agents, who are to a man Class-A d-bags, who bluff and bluster and dickwave and draw lines in the sand and whose only redeeming element is that everyone they deal with are also classic jagoffs who deserve their company?

That kind of "negotiation."

Trump was trained by Roy Cohn: Never give up, never give in, never settle, eat [offal] and die.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.html
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-roy-cohn-mentor-joseph-mccarthy-213799
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...f44f20-2bf3-11e6-9b37-42985f6a265c_story.html

 

[Babbylonian]

Sure, perfectly plausible that Trump found an agreeable doctor.

But we shouldn't say the diagnosis was fake without evidence.

With certainty, no. But he's a notorious liar and con artist, and there is absolutely no reason to think that this is something that only started recently.

 

[The Atheist]

It really is!

The turning point, that is.

And it need not have been, but Trump's parlaying the stupidity by attacking the Khan family hasn't just backfired, it's exploded in his face.

When puppy-dog Chris Christie calls him out at the same time as the GOP is attempting to cut him off at the mouth, I'd say his day is well and truly done.

Who will vote Trump now?

The loons.

Backfire in the sense that it will increase his probability of winning the election rather than decrease it.

Up until Trump's dick move in responding to the Khans as he did I wouldn't have bet a dime on the US election.

Now, I'd happily bet my life - Hillary couldn't be that stupid.

Hell, no sane human being could be as stupid as he's been through the whole affair. The man was a laughing stock before, but people actively pity the guy now.

No chance.

That's adorable. The attacks on Trump are in no way disproportional. His offenses are amazing. His supporters tone deaf.

Wilfully ignorant, and mostly racist.

He'll be right back down to the bottom of the barrel once - if - the smoke blows away.

One might say he's been hoisted on his own retard.

Nice!

And correct.

"I've made sacrifices...."