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Ed Is Humayun Khan Trump's Turning Point?

aleCcowaN said:
Nothing wrong there. They indeed booed Khan -the mention of him- not the "mom". Pence's reply was adequate.
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I thought that Pence's reply was okay, until he claimed that no leader respects the military more than Trump. That was a bit overboard, especially given the somewhat suspect manner in which Trump avoided the draft (bone spurs in his heel, allegedly).

Used to be the case that avoiding the draft was a major blow to a candidacy. That changed some time ago, it seems. For better or worse, I suppose. Were I in a similar situation, I may well have pulled whatever strings I could to avoid service in Vietnam.
 
phiwum said:
I thought that Pence's reply was okay, until he claimed that no leader respects the military more than Trump. That was a bit overboard, especially given the somewhat suspect manner in which Trump avoided the draft (bone spurs in his heel, allegedly).

Used to be the case that avoiding the draft was a major blow to a candidacy. That changed some time ago, it seems.
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When it started being Republicans who did it. The first I remember was Dan Quayle (wasn't his approach the National Guard?)
 
phiwum said:
I thought that Pence's reply was okay, until he claimed that no leader respects the military more than Trump. That was a bit overboard, especially given the somewhat suspect manner in which Trump avoided the draft (bone spurs in his heel, allegedly).

Used to be the case that avoiding the draft was a major blow to a candidacy. That changed some time ago, it seems. For better or worse, I suppose. Were I in a similar situation, I may well have pulled whatever strings I could to avoid service in Vietnam.
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This is likely to be the last election that the draft will come up.
 
The Don said:
Doubling down, tripling down, sadly I don't think it'll make one bit of difference on election day. In the months between now and then, this will go the way of all of Trump's other outrages - remember how his attacks on the "Mexican" judge were going to be the end of him ? Now that whole affair is largely forgotten. As they say over here, today's headline is tomorrow's chip-wrapper (although newspaper is no longer used to wrap fish and chips).

Trump still has the wholehearted support of the GOP machine and, barring a few notable exceptions (respect to them IMO), the major figures in the Republican Party. FOX are still fawning all over him and the other networks continue to give him exposure. It's likely that the GOP and/or Trump will find something to get the country outraged at Hillary and the polls will start to even out again.
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Re the Mexican judge, I don't think that has been forgotten. I think you are confusing 'not today's headline' with 'forgotten'. Hispanics on the whole don't support Trump. It may not have been a big deal in the primary, but that's because GOP Primary voters were more white than not. The general electorate is a much different color.

As for wholehearted support, that is not the adjective I would use. It's more like torn between their own assessment and loyalty to the primary process.
 
Travis said:
... Or a very long real life South Park episode.
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I'd love to see the South Park episode with Trump's twisted answers on whether or not he knows Putin and that whole boggling rambling answer he gave about Russia and the Ukraine.
 
aleCcowaN said:
I'm sure this was thoroughly analysed in a thread entitled "Is Humayan Khan Trump's Turning Point?" in fora devoted to scepticism, so forgive me if I repeat things already said. Khan's speech is a master piece of induced inferences used to get political gain. That doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy him manipulatively bashing Trump by verbal means and malafides, as the Don deserves that and then some just because of the way he has been using his tongue to plough the field of understanding with such tools to the same end.

But anyway, I'm impressed by the use of Khan's induced inferences John Oliver's writers do to add a hilarious induced inference themselves. It's amazing how bad faith minutely rewards in our modern world.

The set of induced inferences I'm talking about is:

Khan: «Donald Trump: You're asking Americans to trust you with their future <non sequitur intended as induced inference #1> Let ME ask you, have you even read the United States' Constitution?[the term "even" intoned for aiming purposes]<non sequitur intended as induced inference #2 -Khan silences the cheers in order to keep the needed momentum> I will gladly lend you my copy! [use of indicative -instead of conditional- and adverb to reinforce the inference]»

Of course, the cheers mean the public fall for the false inferences and those cheers themselves reinforce other people falling for them.

Jocularly, Oliver adds his own hilarious induced inferences supported by adequate gesturing:

Oliver: «<induced inference #3, after Khan's words, consisting in a reinterpretation of the whole paragraph> Ooohh, ****!! That is an American founding document [he slips his hand into his pocket exactly as Khan did...] inspirationally used as a middle finger! [and shows his middle finger]»

What Khan really says: "Trump is a leader, and I will provide him some information if he needed"

What Khan's induces to think he says "Trump is asking too much, as he has clearly no real knowledge of what constitutes the very essence of the United States and how the government works. The same as you, I would like to rub these 'facts' all over his face, given the chance". And Oliver's doubles de bet by inducing "He said '**** you, Trump!' "

There is a whole number of tweaks, pauses, emphasis, careful selection of words and whatnot seeking effect. The most notorious parts of Khan's are about the same and almost everything else in it was just preparing the way to these carefully calculated inferences that damaged Trump hardly.

Well done. Owing to the bovine electorate in front who are merely children with XXL bodies, fire has to be fight with fire, because, you all know, by the cancellative properties of ****, two wrongs make a right, don't they?
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You're being unfair. It was a brilliant piece of political theater. It put a face on banning Muslims. It was the perfect immigrant story. It reminded me of the seen in The Majestic when Jim Carrey pulled out first his copy of the Constitution and started reading the First Amendment, then pulled out Luke's CMH. Classic.

https://youtu.be/8ecwKeU1_IU
 
I also believe there is an accumulative effect of all of Trump's craziness. I mean it's insanity after insanity with this guy.
 
acbytesla said:
I'm koo koo for Cocoa Puffs! Keep it up Sunmaster. Puuuhhleeease.

Many in the military, which has given Trump a lot of support, are also questioning whether Trump is fit to be president. “I loathe Donald Trump with every fiber of my being,” one retired Army officer wrote on Facebook as the controversy took off.

A group of Gold Star families organized by VoteVets.org wrote in an open letter published Monday: "When you question a mother's pain, by implying that her religion, not her grief, kept her from addressing an arena of people, you are attacking us. When you say your job building buildings is akin to our sacrifice, you are attacking our sacrifice."

Brian Duffy, head of the 1.7-million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars, joined in, saying it was unacceptable for Trump to question the right of a Gold Star family member to exercise free speech. “There are certain sacrosanct subjects that no amount of wordsmithing can repair once crossed,” Duffy said.

McCain himself on Monday issued his harshest rebuke of the GOP candidate yet. ”While our Party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us," McCain said. "Lastly, I'd like to say to Mr. and Mrs. Khan: thank you for immigrating to America. We're a better country because of you. And you are certainly right; your son was the best of America, and the memory of his sacrifice will make us a better nation—and he will never be forgotten."

Representative Mike Coffman of Colorado, a Republican who served in combat as a Marine and represents a swing district in the Denver suburbs, told The New York Times that Trump had disrespected American troops. ”Having served in Iraq, I’m deeply offended when Donald Trump fails to honor the sacrifices of all of our brave soldiers who were lost in that war,”

Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who battled Trump in the primaries, also suggested the candidate had abused the Khan family: “There’s only one way to talk about Gold Star parents: with honor and respect.”
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Wait. Are those your words? If not, you should use the quote function.
 
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Trump displayed a Purple Heart today, some vet gave him. Trump, of course, made it about himself, the vet "believed in" Trump.

:jaw-dropp

Words fail me.

On another note, a clip has surfaced with Trump saying he didn't get drafted because he had a high draft number in the lottery. So his story has been inconsistent between medical deferments and this new revelation.
 
acbytesla said:
You're being unfair. It was a brilliant piece of political theater. It put a face on banning Muslims. It was the perfect immigrant story. It reminded me of the scene in The Majestic when Jim Carrey pulled out first his copy of the Constitution and started reading the First Amendment, then pulled out Luke's CMH. Classic.

https://youtu.be/8ecwKeU1_IU
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Non sequitur. I didn't say it wasn't what you say. It was a shot to kill an enemy and that enemy is dying. It's perfectly logic that you prefer to give the shooter a medal and organize a parade for him once he returns from "the front" and not to convict him for attempting murder instead.

I celebrate Kahn and organize my own parade. That doesn't mean that he isn't at least as BSer as Trump.

These forums are for sceptic purposes and education so I resent you use of "unfair" to characterize an analysis that I would like to see enbiggened by you instead, cromulant as it may sound. If you can't keep both planes of analysis separated, you are participating in the wrong forum (don't worry, mostly everyone is that way here :);))
 
acbytesla said:
I also believe there is an accumulative effect of all of Trump's craziness. I mean it's insanity after insanity with this guy.
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If there is a cumulative effect to Trump's craziness then it sure seems to take a lot of accumulation to make a difference.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 
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