Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Show me the actual texts from that text exchange, in a reliable format. Not simply the word of someone who clearly has the potential for, shall we say, a *subjective* interpretation/invention of what was written.

Oh.... you can't, can you. Oops!

And believe me (or not), the very last emotion I harbour towards you is jealousy

If I have time, I'll dig out my old lap top. But otherwise, as Shirley Conran once said, 'Life is too short to stuff a mushroom.'

Most people on this forum will be familiar with these texts so they can be the best judge as to your verisimilitude.

 

[LondonJohn]

We need to feel some sympathy for the forgotten art of commonsense methinks! Some people have ghastly and nasty reasons for not being fully on-board/cognisant with certain issues. Being deserted by longtime partner, *translation* a lonely life. Death of a pet, abject loneliness, rejection by one who was the sole fruit of the loins, failed authorship, confusion with ' identity' et al!
There is light to be had in the midst of severe adversity. Ask Amanda Knox! She shines. She glitters. No amount of attempted dampening dulls her fire. Much to be said for coming out the other end of a wrongful conviction with your faith in humanity intact, understanding your dissenters and their faults but not vilifying them.
Lesson for all. Well....one in particular.

Btw.... I realise I have strayed. But I am sure ( read hopeful) anyone reading gets my gist.

I agree - I suspect that many pro-guilt commentators have either suffered a recent traumatic incident causing mental health issues (such as a split from a long-term partner....) or have had personal experience of violent crime. There certainly seems to be an undercurrent among many (most) pro-guilt commentators of bitterness, instability and vindictiveness, which I think a psychiatrist might view as a sign of projection.

It certainly seems that many (most) pro-guilt commentators cannot help themselves from departing from a dispassionate debate about evidence, its interpretation and the workings of the Italian criminal justice system, and veering instead into emotional personal attacks on Knox (mostly) and Sollecito (sometimes). Whenever I read a pro-guilt commentator write something along the lines of "lovebirds" or "reptiles" to describe Knox and Sollecito, I can be very confident that there's something else driving their need to commentate on this case.

 

[LondonJohn]

If I have time, I'll dig out my old lap top. But otherwise, as Shirley Conran once said, 'Life is too short to stuff a mushroom.'

Most people on this forum will be familiar with these texts so they can be the best judge as to your verisimilitude.

Ah! The old "I could provide it if I could be bothered" excuse Alongside its sister excuse "Everyone else has seen the evidence". Lovely stuff!!

No dice, I'm afraid. You know as well as I do that only reliable, verifiable documentation of the text exchange will serve as adequate evidence in this matter. And I'm therefore going to assume that you cannot or will not provide it, and therefore your claim is withdrawn. Glad that's settled.

 

[Vixen]

I agree - I suspect that many pro-guilt commentators have either suffered a recent traumatic incident causing mental health issues (such as a split from a long-term partner....) or have had personal experience of violent crime. There certainly seems to be an undercurrent among many (most) pro-guilt commentators of bitterness, instability and vindictiveness, which I think a psychiatrist might view as a sign of projection.

It certainly seems that many (most) pro-guilt commentators cannot help themselves from departing from a dispassionate debate about evidence, its interpretation and the workings of the Italian criminal justice system, and veering instead into emotional personal attacks on Knox (mostly) and Sollecito (sometimes). Whenever I read a pro-guilt commentator write something along the lines of "lovebirds" or "reptiles" to describe Knox and Sollecito, I can be very confident that there's something else driving their need to commentate on this case.

Whilst it is, of course, always regrettable to hear about the long-term anguish of some PIPs and the type of miserable existence, as described by Annella, and I do feel the utmost compassion, I promise you, is it really a sensible solution to champion the cause of rapists and murderers?

Poor Mez was forced onto her knees and was viciously stabbed in the neck, by, according to the Massei merits courts, Amanda Knox and five-day sex partner, Raffaele Sollecito, together with poor poor Rudy. Is having had a wretched life of exiguous existence and being considered a reprobate by others adequate grounds for being a murder groupie? So Annella lost her dog (?). Is that really even the flimsiest excuse, given the average life span of a large dog is only eight years? Yes, it is desperately sad when one of our canine friends dies, full of the boundless joys and daft unconditional love towards its human owner and its big soppy eyes, but seriously, that cannot justify glee that heinous murderers of the most depraved kind have 'got away with it'.

 

[LondonJohn]

Whilst it is, of course, always regrettable to hear about the long-term anguish of some PIPs and the type of miserable existence, as described by Annella, and I do feel the utmost compassion, I promise you, is it really a sensible solution to champion the cause of rapists and murderers?

Poor Mez was forced onto her knees and was viciously stabbed in the neck, by, according to the Massei merits courts, Amanda Knox and five-day sex partner, Raffaele Sollecito, together with poor poor Rudy. Is having had a wretched life of exiguous existence and being considered a reprobate by others adequate grounds for being a murder groupie? So Annella lost her dog (?). Is that really even the flimsiest excuse, given the average life span of a large dog is only eight years? Yes, it is desperately sad when one of our canine friends dies, full of the boundless joys and daft unconditional love towards its human owner and its big soppy eyes, but seriously, that cannot justify glee that heinous murderers of the most depraved kind have 'got away with it'.

You are aware that there was/is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence showing that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, aren't you? And that the Massei court's verdict was eviscerated by the Supreme Court?

Sometimes you give the impression that you simply aren't aware of those facts. Which is odd.

(And it wasn't Annella's own "miserable existence" that she was describing. But I suspect you know that already )

 

[Vixen]

You are aware that there was/is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence showing that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, aren't you? And that the Massei court's verdict was eviscerated by the Supreme Court?

Sometimes you give the impression that you simply aren't aware of those facts. Which is odd.

(And it wasn't Annella's own "miserable existence" that she was describing. But I suspect you know that already )

Oh gosh. Penny drops. I am sorry to hear you've had a hard time, but I am not going to pretend your heroes are innocent, just to 'humour the patient'.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh gosh. Penny drops. I am sorry to hear you've had a hard time, but I am not going to pretend your heroes are innocent, just to 'humour the patient'.

Fortunately you do not have to pretend. In March 2015 they were exonerated, a fact noted in a subsequent judicial proceeding where the recording judge noted this as a fact going in.

And your use of the pejorative "your heroes" says more about your own propaganda agenda than anything else. Thanks for noting it so that recent lurkers to this thread can come up to speed with what you're about.

 

[LondonJohn]

Oh gosh. Penny drops. I am sorry to hear you've had a hard time, but I am not going to pretend your heroes are innocent, just to 'humour the patient'.

You are aware that there was/is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence showing that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, aren't you? And that the Massei court's verdict was eviscerated by the Supreme Court?

Sometimes you give the impression that you simply aren't aware of those facts. Which is odd.

(And it wasn't Annella's own "miserable existence" that she was describing. Nor was it mine. But I suspect you know that already )

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Whilst it is, of course, always regrettable to hear about the long-term anguish of some PIPs and the type of miserable existence, as described by Annella, and I do feel the utmost compassion, I promise you, is it really a sensible solution to champion the cause of rapists and murderers?

Poor Mez was forced onto her knees and was viciously stabbed in the neck, by, according to the Massei merits courts, Amanda Knox and five-day sex partner, Raffaele Sollecito, together with poor poor Rudy. Is having had a wretched life of exiguous existence and being considered a reprobate by others adequate grounds for being a murder groupie? So Annella lost her dog (?). Is that really even the flimsiest excuse, given the average life span of a large dog is only eight years? Yes, it is desperately sad when one of our canine friends dies, full of the boundless joys and daft unconditional love towards its human owner and its big soppy eyes, but seriously, that cannot justify glee that heinous murderers of the most depraved kind have 'got away with it'.

Vixen,
It looks like Annella regrettably hit a nerve with you. Are you ok?

Remember, the Italian Supreme Court and every professional forensic scientist in the world who has examined the evidence since 2008 has concluded unequivocally that Amanda and Raffaele could not have been involved in the murder. Rudy had to have done it by himself. It is the only scenario consistent with the evidence.

Amanda has been through a lot. Wrongful prosecution and conviction. Years in prison for a crime she provably had nothing to do with. Internet narcissists and sociopaths who make up fake credentials smearing her name on every forum and blog they can find. Tabloid journalists who write true crime novels to turn a quick buck and profit off a poor girl's murder.

That's a lot to deal with. Amanda has had to be particularly strong willed to get through it all and come out on top. Maybe you can look to her for inspiration?

 

[Bill Williams]

Remember, the Italian Supreme Court and every professional forensic scientist in the world who has examined the evidence since 2008 has concluded unequivocally that Amanda and Raffaele could not have been involved in the murder. Rudy had to have done it by himself. It is the only scenario consistent with the evidence.

Indeed.

The **only** thing that the forces of darkness can point to, really, are the "judicial truths" generated since 2008. This includes the Massei trial, which found for guilt mainly because Judge Massei could not imagine that the prosecution could either:

1) Be wrong
2) Be corrupt​

It's an eye-opener to actually read through Massei's reasons for things, including (but not limited to) him saying that the presumed semen-stain found under the naked hips of a sexually assaulted victim, "could not be time-stamped from DNA analysis," but that Knox's DNA found in her own bathroom **was** time-stamped and could only have come from the night of the murder.

Once again, if I had the time, I would bring forward that excellent post from these threads; the one circa Continuation 6 or 7 which laid out how all the evidence which convicted the pair in two lower courts were based on judicial truths and not the evidence.

It is no wonder, then, that the remaining group of guilters refer to the case which existed circa 2008, and why hack-authors like Nick van der Leek cuts and pastes material for his book which is generated from that era.

 

[Stacyhs]

Thank you for sharing your discoveries with us all. I wish you well.

I find it odd that someone with a 99% accurate memory and an excellent education could not tell a simile from a metaphor or know that "to meet with" someone is correct English.

 

[Stacyhs]

"Do you really believe two people who were only together for five days have deep feelings of warmth?" Vixen

Not if almost 9 years had passed with no further contact between them and they had not shared a harrowing experience. But that's not the case with Amanda and Raffaele, is it?

They wrote and supported each other while in prison for 4 years. Raff stayed with her family while in Seattle and they met in New York where a paparazzi photographed them hugging each other. Or did you miss that? Raff Skyped from Italy last summer.

Yep, sure signs of two people who are indifferent to each other.

Do you really believe two people who were only together for 5 days brutally killed a girl one had known for six weeks and the other had met a couple times briefly? And somehow talked a man into joining them whom one had talked to for a few minutes a couple of times and the other not at all? Really?

 

[analemma]

"Do you really believe two people who were only together for five days have deep feelings of warmth?" Vixen

Not if almost 9 years had passed with no further contact between them and they had not shared a harrowing experience. But that's not the case with Amanda and Raffaele, is it?

They wrote and supported each other while in prison for 4 years. Raff stayed with her family while in Seattle and they met in New York where a paparazzi photographed them hugging each other. Or did you miss that? Raff Skyped from Italy last summer.

Yep, sure signs of two people who are indifferent to each other.

Do you really believe two people who were only together for 5 days brutally killed a girl one had known for six weeks and the other had met a couple times briefly? And somehow talked a man into joining them whom one had talked to for a few minutes a couple of times and the other not at all? Really?

Vixen believes, and repeats, everything that TJMK and the ugly exam*ner troll says.
In fact, Vixen is sounding more and more like the ugly exam*ner troll every day.

 

[LondonJohn]

"Do you really believe two people who were only together for five days have deep feelings of warmth?" Vixen

Not if almost 9 years had passed with no further contact between them and they had not shared a harrowing experience. But that's not the case with Amanda and Raffaele, is it?

They wrote and supported each other while in prison for 4 years. Raff stayed with her family while in Seattle and they met in New York where a paparazzi photographed them hugging each other. Or did you miss that? Raff Skyped from Italy last summer.

Yep, sure signs of two people who are indifferent to each other.

Do you really believe two people who were only together for 5 days brutally killed a girl one had known for six weeks and the other had met a couple times briefly? And somehow talked a man into joining them whom one had talked to for a few minutes a couple of times and the other not at all? Really?

This strikes at the heart of the rank hypocrisy and irrationality among so much pro-guilt "argument".

On the one hand, the "argument" is that two people who'd only been in a relationship for eleven days (six days before the night of the murder, plus another five between the night of the murder and the arrests) could not harbour any genuine feelings of love or compassion for each other...

...and on the other hand, the "argument" is that two people who'd only been in a relationship for six days could have trusted each other so extraordinarily deeply to have conspired together to attack and murder someone (not to mention in partnership with a third person whom one of them hardly knew and the other had never met at all before).

And therein, ladies and gentlemen, lies a revealing illustration of the sheer paucity of logic or reason in the pro-guilt "argument". It is repeated in various similar forms across all areas of this case. And that, in a nutshell, is why the "argument" for guilt is intellectually (and ethically) bankrupt.

 

[LondonJohn]

Vixen believes, and repeats, everything that TJMK and the ugly exam*ner troll says.
In fact, Vixen is sounding more and more like the ugly exam*ner troll every day.

She has a book out, dontcha know! (Houle) I can't begin to imagine just how objective, scientifically-accurate and well-reasoned that must be

 

[Vixen]

You are aware that there was/is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence showing that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, aren't you? And that the Massei court's verdict was eviscerated by the Supreme Court?

Sometimes you give the impression that you simply aren't aware of those facts. Which is odd.

(And it wasn't Annella's own "miserable existence" that she was describing. Nor was it mine. But I suspect you know that already )

If Annella was hoping to libel me, then it's pretty pathetic as (a) I don't have a pet to lose*, (b) I have not recently broken up with a long-term (or even short-term) partner, (c) no lost children and, as to (d) 'failed', well, this is subjective, but last time I looked, the no 1 best seller that came out in 2011 is still below #150 on amazon.

How sad that one of the PIP's from New Zealand had to hack into my linkedin account - gleefully seized by LondonJohn hoping to find 'dirt' - all because of some grudge against Italian police, completely unconnected to the Kercher case.

Now THAT's what I call a desperate and miserable existence.

*At least I didn't get a dog from a rescue home, leave it on its own for days, to the extent its paws were bleeding from scrabbling at the door and then dumping the poor little mite back in the dog's home, unlike, Amanda. How cruel, dogs have feelings and for them, their owner is their family.

 

[LondonJohn]

If Annella was hoping to libel me, then it's pretty pathetic as (a) I don't have a pet to lose*, (b) I have not recently broken up with a long-term (or even short-term) partner, (c) no lost children and, as to (d) 'failed', well, this is subjective, but last time I looked, the no 1 best seller that came out in 2011 is still below #150 on amazon.

How sad that one of the PIP's from New Zealand had to hack into my linkedin account - gleefully seized by LondonJohn hoping to find 'dirt' - all because of some grudge against Italian police, completely unconnected to the Kercher case.

Now THAT's what I call a desperate and miserable existence.

*At least I didn't get a dog from a rescue home, leave it on its own for days, to the extent its paws were bleeding from scrabbling at the door and then dumping the poor little mite back in the dog's home, unlike, Amanda. How cruel, dogs have feelings and for them, their owner is their family.

Uhhh....... wow. Quite some outburst.

You are aware that there was/is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence showing that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, aren't you? And that the Massei court's verdict was eviscerated by the Supreme Court?

Sometimes you give the impression that you simply aren't aware of those facts. Which is odd.

 

[Vixen]

"Do you really believe two people who were only together for five days have deep feelings of warmth?" Vixen

Not if almost 9 years had passed with no further contact between them and they had not shared a harrowing experience. But that's not the case with Amanda and Raffaele, is it?

They wrote and supported each other while in prison for 4 years. Raff stayed with her family while in Seattle and they met in New York where a paparazzi photographed them hugging each other. Or did you miss that? Raff Skyped from Italy last summer.

Yep, sure signs of two people who are indifferent to each other.

Do you really believe two people who were only together for 5 days brutally killed a girl one had known for six weeks and the other had met a couple times briefly? And somehow talked a man into joining them whom one had talked to for a few minutes a couple of times and the other not at all? Really?

Yeah, why do you think Amanda was on an adrenaline high? Psychologists designed a test to stimulate adrenaline in subjects to discover how they perceived each other. The subjects were placed on a bridge, and the persons who were led to believe they were in great danger (i.e., an adrenaline rush) later said they had stronger feelings towards the person who shared the 'danger' than neutral situation subjects.

IOW any attachment between Amanda and Raff is almost certainly due to negative reasons.

Your claim they light up in each other's company is not credible. Grinder was there, who has a fine objective eye, and he didn't see anything between them.

 

[Vixen]

She has a book out, dontcha know! (Houle) I can't begin to imagine just how objective, scientifically-accurate and well-reasoned that must be

Perhaps you and Analemma should post a photo of yourselves before calling Liz Houle 'an ugly troll'.

If anyone is interested, the new book, which deals with chapter 1 - 6 of Waiting to be Heard is available for download on amazon, now:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manipulative-Memoir-Amanda-Knox-Critical-ebook/dp/B01J2T0R20/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1469576251&sr=8-3&keywords=liz+houle

It is an excellent critical analysis of Amanda's claims in her book, which barely match reality.

 

[Bill Williams]

Perhaps you and Analemma should post a photo of yourselves before calling Liz Houle 'an ugly troll'.

If anyone is interested, the new book, which deals with chapter 1 - 6 of Waiting to be Heard is available for download on amazon, now:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manipulative-Memoir-Amanda-Knox-Critical-ebook/dp/B01J2T0R20/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1469576251&sr=8-3&keywords=liz+houle

It is an excellent critical analysis of Amanda's claims in her book, which barely match reality.

........ and the guilters PR campaign continues.