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Split Thread Signs of the End Times

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But why is your god so interested in that? Why does he care? No one is being harmed by two consenting adults having sex.
There are a lot of people that are harmed if they commit adultery. To take another man’s wife, is not consenting. To have sex with a virgin and not remain with her is diabolical.
There are so many repercussions with adultery. The aftermath of adultery has far reaching effect on children---yes there is a lot of harm from two consenting people to commit adultery.
 
You see Meadmaker, I did not write the laws, I only proclaimed them.

I had said that no one who gave it a moment's thought could possibly believe as you do, but darned if I couldn't find plenty of people on the internet writing sermons about it.

All men. Go figure.

Although, it is odd that in cases where the abandoning spouse is an unbeliever, 1 Corinthians 7:15 is quite clear that this permanent bond isn't permanent.

Oh, well. Takes all kinds to make a world. I'm just glad that I live somewhere where people are free to believe this if they wish, and free to reject it if they wish. I pity the people of Nigeria or Saudi Arabia where this cockamamie belief still has the force of law. It seems that ISIL are the only ones that are actually willing to enforce the law of God these days with real stonings. Even places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where the law has stoning as at least a theoretical possibility almost never do it. They stick with hangings or beheadings most of the time. Those heathens.

It's no wonder that God is going to purge this world soon. Without stonings, why keep it around?
 
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And the sins of their fathers, unto the fourth generation. Beyond that if you happen to be a descendant of Ham.

It's the whole visiting the sins of the fathers on the children and the grossly disproportionate systems of divine punishments that convinces me that Yahweh is not a God of justice, but of obedience and revenge.
Yahweh is the judge of those who sin, because sin has an effect on other people—do not murder do not steal, do not lie, do not commit adultery, do not covet your neighbour’s wife, and do not bear false witness.

All of these sins have a detrimental effect on the world today, so Yahweh has shown that those who violate his covenant, which has its primary focus on loving ones neighbour will face his wrath. If the children continue in the sins of the fathers they too will face judgement.

Now you will not want anyone to murder you or a close relative, you do not want anyone to steal from you, you do not want someone to bear false testimony with regards to some crime.

So the judgement came on those nations who did those things, and the children who continued in doing what their fathers did—like cannibalism, and human sacrifice.

So you would want justice, that prevents criminals from doing as they please.
 
Yahweh is the judge of those who sin, because sin has an effect on other people—do not murder do not steal, do not lie, do not commit adultery, do not covet your neighbour’s wife, and do not bear false witness.

All of these sins have a detrimental effect on the world today, so Yahweh has shown that those who violate his covenant, which has its primary focus on loving ones neighbour will face his wrath. If the children continue in the sins of the fathers they too will face judgement.

Now you will not want anyone to murder you or a close relative, you do not want anyone to steal from you, you do not want someone to bear false testimony with regards to some crime.

So the judgement came on those nations who did those things, and the children who continued in doing what their fathers did—like cannibalism, and human sacrifice.

So you would want justice, that prevents criminals from doing as they please.

Yahweh also is alleged to have killed all of humanity, less a single family, because it offended him. He killed everyone, even down to the innocent children because he couldn't be bothered to use his magic zappy powers to strike only at the guilty.

Yahweh is alleged to have punished the children, etc. of Ham because of what Ham did, not because of their own sins.

Yahweh insisted all the inhabitants of a city be killed because they had not surrendered to the Israelite army and become the slaves of Israel.

Yahweh sent bears to kill children who laughed at a man's bald spot.

Yahweh is alleged to have killed all the first born of Egypt, even though it was the fault of Pharoh that they were slaves.

Yahweh's commandments state that he will punish sinners and their children even unto the 4th generation.

These are but a sample of injustice by Yahweh. Yahweh routinely sends not blessings to his followers, but continued trials to see that they are serious in following him and his whims. His "blessings" as part of the covenant are more of a "no punishment for you, right now" then actual benefits and people have bought into the idea that "He must love us, he's not visiting punishment on us" That's not love, that's abuse.

As to the "visiting his wrath on those nations that offended him with cannibalism and child sacrifice" bit, you might want to actually find out about the history of the ancient middle east. Cannibalism was not generally practised in the ancient middle east. And in fact such an act was so abhorrent that the symbolic consumption of Jesus as part of Communion was a major strike against the faith and a hurdle to get over in getting converts.

The "child sacrifice" alleged to have been practiced by the Philistines has been seen to be ancient propaganda to vilify political enemies. Human sacrifice did happen, but not on the scale that the Israelites allege that it was. The effectiveness of these allegations have been repeated for centuries by various nations - the Europeans alleged that the First Nations were all cannibals, the Romans held that the Celts practised mass human sacrifice, etc. What you are reading in the Bible is propaganda, not fact.

The parts of the Ten Commandments that are actually useful laws are lifted wholesale from earlier legal codes and are in no way unique to Yahwehism. Justice is punishing people for what they do themselves that harms others and in encouraging people through positive example to behave decently towards each other. Killing children because their parents did something against your deity's wishes instead of teaching them better ways only tells people that your deity is vicious and that he is more concerned with punishment and vengeance.
 
Yahweh also is alleged to have killed all of humanity, less a single family, because it offended him. He killed everyone, even down to the innocent children because he couldn't be bothered to use his magic zappy powers to strike only at the guilty.

Yahweh is alleged to have punished the children, etc. of Ham because of what Ham did, not because of their own sins.

Yahweh insisted all the inhabitants of a city be killed because they had not surrendered to the Israelite army and become the slaves of Israel.

Yahweh sent bears to kill children who laughed at a man's bald spot.

Yahweh is alleged to have killed all the first born of Egypt, even though it was the fault of Pharoh that they were slaves.

Yahweh's commandments state that he will punish sinners and their children even unto the 4th generation.

These are but a sample of injustice by Yahweh. Yahweh routinely sends not blessings to his followers, but continued trials to see that they are serious in following him and his whims. His "blessings" as part of the covenant are more of a "no punishment for you, right now" then actual benefits and people have bought into the idea that "He must love us, he's not visiting punishment on us" That's not love, that's abuse.

As to the "visiting his wrath on those nations that offended him with cannibalism and child sacrifice" bit, you might want to actually find out about the history of the ancient middle east. Cannibalism was not generally practised in the ancient middle east. And in fact such an act was so abhorrent that the symbolic consumption of Jesus as part of Communion was a major strike against the faith and a hurdle to get over in getting converts.

The "child sacrifice" alleged to have been practiced by the Philistines has been seen to be ancient propaganda to vilify political enemies. Human sacrifice did happen, but not on the scale that the Israelites allege that it was. The effectiveness of these allegations have been repeated for centuries by various nations - the Europeans alleged that the First Nations were all cannibals, the Romans held that the Celts practised mass human sacrifice, etc. What you are reading in the Bible is propaganda, not fact.

The parts of the Ten Commandments that are actually useful laws are lifted wholesale from earlier legal codes and are in no way unique to Yahwehism. Justice is punishing people for what they do themselves that harms others and in encouraging people through positive example to behave decently towards each other. Killing children because their parents did something against your deity's wishes instead of teaching them better ways only tells people that your deity is vicious and that he is more concerned with punishment and vengeance.

You are correct in stating that Yahweh is a God who takes vengeance on sinners---Deut_32:41 when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me.

Most people who find God’s dealings with people abhorrent, fail to see the wickedness of the people God passed judgement on.

Today there is so much sympathy for sin, that people have taken away the death penalty, saying that it does not stop crime.
They have introduced another form of marriage that is contrary to nature.

Children down the ages have suffered for the sins of their fathers—the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, resulted in the children suffering for the decisions made by the parents.

Children always suffer for what the parents do—divorce for instance causes suffering to the children for the selfish decisions of the parents.

Foetal alcoholic syndrome is as a result of the mother drinking alcohol during pregnancy
Single parents are the norm for the day.

So the children suffered as a result of Pharaoh not letting the Hebrews leave—but take note Pharaoh had the Hebrew infants drowned .

The bears were sent to teach those children to respect the prophet –children without respect are of no value to society that is why corporal punishment trains a child to respect.

The people were given an opportunity to surrender, and become slaves or face destruction, nothing wrong with that, that has been the procedure throughout time—surrender or die.

Hams children followed in the sins of their father and became corrupt. It is like cannibalism that I use as an example—the children follow in the customs of the fathers.

The flood destroyed all humanity except as you say one man and his family who followed Yahweh’s commandments to have one wife—the rest of the people became so corrupt that even the children had no chance in changing what the people were doing---in that day no one knew who their father was and the men did not know who their children were, woman were constantly changing partners, the men were so violent that God decreed disaster as the only way to eradicate the way of life that had developed.

Gen 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence.
Gen 6:12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.

Today as Jesus said is the same as it was in the days of Noah---corruption and violence, so surely for God not to show favouritism he must judge this present world on the same basis as he judged the people in the days of Noah!!
 
.The bears were sent to teach those children to respect the prophet –children without respect are of no value to society that is why corporal punishment trains a child to respect.
Does being devoured by a bear train a child to respect?
The people were given an opportunity to surrender, and become slaves or face destruction, nothing wrong with that, that has been the procedure throughout time—surrender or die.
I thought "the Truth will set you free". But you say the message is: "become a slave or die". You are a true child of Apartheid.
 
I am not suggesting anything--you have failed that is why you are trying to discredit me for my success.

You have yet to mention a single success. Everything you've discussed, from your predictions to your "ministry" have been abject failures.

The lengths you going to are tantamount of a person who is trying to hide his own failures.

Projecting much?

Do you explain to your sons the folly of committing adultery?

That you straight up made up. I never said anything that even implied that my sons committed adultery. The oldest one is eight. You deny being a liar and then accuse an eight yer old boy of committing adultery.

Could be that your marriage is a failure!

Again, your projection is quite desperate. I find it fascinating, and very sad, that you choose to respond to detailed criticism of your lies and failed cult-building efforts by denigrating your critics. It tells me you HAVE no defenses for what I'm saying other than to retreat into a corner and lob insults.

That's, for lack of a better word, pathetic.

Yes I did predict that I would be instrumental in the withering grass saga—now that did not happen

Which makes you a false prophet according to the Bible. You can wring your hands with as many excuses as you want, but the fact remains that you are a false prophet. You can't lie your way out of that my child.

Now, back to the question you keep dodging:

"Paul Bethke," Have you ever kidnapped anyone?
 
You have yet to mention a single success. Everything you've discussed, from your predictions to your "ministry" have been abject failures.



Projecting much?



That you straight up made up. I never said anything that even implied that my sons committed adultery. The oldest one is eight. You deny being a liar and then accuse an eight yer old boy of committing adultery.



Again, your projection is quite desperate. I find it fascinating, and very sad, that you choose to respond to detailed criticism of your lies and failed cult-building efforts by denigrating your critics. It tells me you HAVE no defenses for what I'm saying other than to retreat into a corner and lob insults.

That's, for lack of a better word, pathetic.



Which makes you a false prophet according to the Bible. You can wring your hands with as many excuses as you want, but the fact remains that you are a false prophet. You can't lie your way out of that my child.

Now, back to the question you keep dodging:

"Paul Bethke," Have you ever kidnapped anyone?

I cannot be false if I tell the truth---you are the one full of insults.

You can teach eight year old boys the value of a holy marriage that is if your marriage is holy — most people will not teach their children to avoid their sins.

Why should I respond to you when you act out of malice?

I am quite satisfied with my achievements, despite your insinuations, that proceed from a corrupt perspective.

What has kidnapping got to do with me, why are you shouting?
 
Does being devoured by a bear train a child to respect? I thought "the Truth will set you free". But you say the message is: "become a slave or die". You are a true child of Apartheid.

The truth will certainly when put into practice set one free. Those children and those who heard about the event will have tread with respect.

Sometimes it is better to be a slave of a kind person that be under the rule of tyranny.

Apartheid had the remedy to set people free from the tyranny that they were subject to by their constant tribal factions.

Jesus stated that anyone who sinned would become the slave of sin---(John_8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Now this is true freedom---the blacks under the rule of the ANC government are in no way free, they are in more dire straits than in the Apartheid era.

Jesus stated that the little people have will be lost if they disregard the truth.
Mat 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

So what the blacks could have had is now lost—because they did not appreciate what they had.
 
I cannot be false if I tell the truth---you are the one full of insults.

But you DON'T tell the truth. You're a false prophet.

You can teach eight year old boys the value of a holy marriage that is if your marriage is holy — most people will not teach their children to avoid their sins.

Me: Gives remedial lesson on how to teach someone something.

Paul Bethke: ADULTERY!!!!!!

Me: WTF????

Why should I respond to you when you act out of malice?

Fascinating. You consider criticism and requests for direct answers to questions to be "malice."

Are you familiar with the life and career of Donald Trump?

I am quite satisfied with my achievements, despite your insinuations, that proceed from a corrupt perspective.

Pray tell, what ARE you actual achievements? If you've had any you've yet to list them here.

What has kidnapping got to do with me... ?

I already discussed this. It's one of the Biblical laws you claim to follow. Paul Bethke, why are you so afraid of telling us if you've ever kidnapped anyone?

why are you shouting?

All Caps is shouting. Bold or larger font is for emphasis or section headings.

THIS IS SHOUTING

This is emphasis.

Since you keep ignoring the question of if you OBEY the verse in Exodus and have never kidnapped anyone, I had to use emphasis to draw your attention to it.

"Paul Bethke," Have you ever kidnapped anyone?
 
<snip Apartheid propaganda>
So to the oppressed you say, be a slave or die. And to the poor you say.
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.​
I don't think that approach will win many converts!
 
Paul, given your peculiar evasiveness it seems to me highly likely that you are divorced, if not legally so, then due to separation.
 
But you DON'T tell the truth. You're a false prophet.



Me: Gives remedial lesson on how to teach someone something.

Paul Bethke: ADULTERY!!!!!!

Me: WTF????



Fascinating. You consider criticism and requests for direct answers to questions to be "malice."

Are you familiar with the life and career of Donald Trump?



Pray tell, what ARE you actual achievements? If you've had any you've yet to list them here.



I already discussed this. It's one of the Biblical laws you claim to follow. Paul Bethke, why are you so afraid of telling us if you've ever kidnapped anyone?



All Caps is shouting. Bold or larger font is for emphasis or section headings.

THIS IS SHOUTING

This is emphasis.

Since you keep ignoring the question of if you OBEY the verse in Exodus and have never kidnapped anyone, I had to use emphasis to draw your attention to it.

"Paul Bethke," Have you ever kidnapped anyone?

Now what do you think it means to kidnap some one--what devious plan do you intend using? I do not have to answer every question you put to me.
 
I don't think that approach will win many converts!

As we've repeatedly seen, winning converts is not one of his strong suits. He is however quite practiced (not skilled, just practiced) at blaming his evangelism failures on "corrupt" pastors.

If only all hate peddling racist control freaks were as bad at communicating and persuading people as PB.
 
You are correct in stating that Yahweh is a God who takes vengeance on sinners---Deut_32:41 when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me.

Most people who find God’s dealings with people abhorrent, fail to see the wickedness of the people God passed judgement on.

An infalliable, omnipotent and omniscient being can't exercise discretion in meeting out his vengeance?

Today there is so much sympathy for sin, that people have taken away the death penalty, saying that it does not stop crime.

that would be because studies have shown that the presence of the death penalty does not deter crime. Probability of getting caught and certain punishments of a sort deemed fair by society at large have been demonstrated in a wide variety of societies to be more effective in lowering crime rates, along with greater real opportunities for social advancement lower the crime rates. Studies done in Great Britain during the time of the Bloody Code indicated that juries were less likely to convict if they felt the punishment was out of proportion to the crime (this was an era where you could be hanged for stealing 5 shillings of linen)

They have introduced another form of marriage that is contrary to nature.

Except those stable homosexual pair bonds that do exist in nature.

Children down the ages have suffered for the sins of their fathers—the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, resulted in the children suffering for the decisions made by the parents.

Should your children be denied Yahweh's heaven because you or your wife wore clothing without blue fringe or was made of mixed fibres?

Children always suffer for what the parents do—divorce for instance causes suffering to the children for the selfish decisions of the parents.

Is it better for children to witness a loveless and failed relationship, or for them to live in a home where the parents resent each other?

Foetal alcoholic syndrome is as a result of the mother drinking alcohol during pregnancy.
Single parents are the norm for the day.

So the children suffered as a result of Pharaoh not letting the Hebrews leave—but take note Pharaoh had the Hebrew infants drowned .

You'll note that Pharaoh lived and that only the children suffered death for Pharaoh's hard heart here. Punishment was inflicted on innocents rather than the guilty

The bears were sent to teach those children to respect the prophet –children without respect are of no value to society that is why corporal punishment trains a child to respect.

Those children weren't taught respect, they were killed. Even if used as an example this only teaches the 11th commandment - "Thou shalt not get caught."

And it is also a great example of a disproportionate sentence. Children who mock others can be corrected in a multitude of ways other than by killing.

The people were given an opportunity to surrender, and become slaves or face destruction, nothing wrong with that, that has been the procedure throughout time—surrender or die.

Oddly no, that is not how most conflicts have been waged since the dawn of recorded history. Genocide is actually fairly rare, and the mass enslavement that is referenced here has not been the practice of pretty much any European, First Nation, African, Middle Eastern or Asian people. Such black or white options tend to make wars far more costly for both sides and as such are typically avoided. You'd know that if you read books other than the Bible and understood them.

Hams children followed in the sins of their father and became corrupt. It is like cannibalism that I use as an example—the children follow in the customs of the fathers.

Evidence that Ham had children when he was cursed? The story has him married, but there is no mention of any children. The curse is laid on his future children for the sin of seeing his Dad passed out drunk and going to get help.

The flood destroyed all humanity except as you say one man and his family who followed Yahweh’s commandments to have one wife—the rest of the people became so corrupt that even the children had no chance in changing what the people were doing---in that day no one knew who their father was and the men did not know who their children were, woman were constantly changing partners, the men were so violent that God decreed disaster as the only way to eradicate the way of life that had developed.

Gen 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence.
Gen 6:12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.

Today as Jesus said is the same as it was in the days of Noah---corruption and violence, so surely for God not to show favouritism he must judge this present world on the same basis as he judged the people in the days of Noah!!

You're reading your personal belief into those verses. They say violent and corrupt - nothing about sexual immorality.
 
As we've repeatedly seen, winning converts is not one of his strong suits. He is however quite practiced (not skilled, just practiced) at blaming his evangelism failures on "corrupt" pastors.

If only all hate peddling racist control freaks were as bad at communicating and persuading people as PB.

You are wrong again as always—just nonsensical guessing, what sort of freak are you when you do not teach your children the truth about holy matrimony?
Eight year olds need to know the truth.
 
Now what do you think it means to kidnap some one

There's this thing called a "dictionary." The American Noah Webster for example was well known for writing a very popular one that's still kept up to date and in print. A dictionary definition is more than good enough for this situation. To be nice and tautological, we'll use the dictionary definition from dictionary.com:

http://www.dictionary.com/

verb (used with object), kidnapped or kidnaped, kidnapping or kidnaping.
1. to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, especially for use as a hostage or to extract ransom.

Since the law is concerned with the action and not the intention, we can ignore the "especially for use as a hostage or to extract ransom" part of the definition.

For example, grabbing a virgin, carrying her somewhere and raping her in order to "defile" her and force her to marry you would mean you HAVE kidnapped someone.

Grabbing a black man and taking him somewhere for extra-judicial "punishment" as a result of accusations by a white woman would include kidnapping.

I do not have to answer every question you put to me.

No, but God demands I ask them of you. We are commanded to "test the spirit" and as part of that I am testing your claim that you adhere to the full law as it applies to Christians. To that end I am going though the 613 primary laws as listed by Jewish scholars. Your refusal to answer the questions is in and of itself another example of you failing the test. You are a liar and a false prophet, and you prove that fact again and again on every page of this thread. Frankly, it's the only thing you're really consistent on.

If you WERE a prophet you'd welcome this challenge and respond. Since you're NOT, your reluctance and heel dragging is to be expected.
 
That is your problem, you speculate--it seems to you!!

You are wrong again as always—just nonsensical guessing, what sort of freak are you when you do not teach your children the truth about holy matrimony?
Eight year olds need to know the truth.

And now we come full circle to a fresh example of how you are a TERRIBLE educator, which is where this tangent started. Your demonstrated incompetence as a teacher is mind-boggling. You simply do not understand even the remedial concepts of teaching someone a concept and correcting errors in their understanding.

Frankly I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could reach adulthood with such a deeply flawed understanding of the education process unless their own teachers were rank morons who weren't intelligent enough to be shaping young minds.

This is one of the things that happens when you put race ahead of competence. You get exceptionally stupid, heavily inbred, marginally functional troglodytes being given teaching positions because they're white and come from the "right family" where they muck up the education of people like poor "Paul Bethke" to the point where they think "you are wrong" with no further explanation constitutes teaching.
 
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