Navigator-We don't have to all agree on things, but when you say we know the difference between good and evil and that this is inherent, it is in the sense that it is taught to us as children. We aren't born with this knowledge. Feral children are a good example of how good and evil must be taught. Review child development, nothing is less considerate of their own actions than a 2 year old toddler. I think you are too concrete in your concept of good and evil.
Jodie - did you read what I said about it being possible that we are indeed born with this inherent understanding of good and evil ?
What I was meaning there is that it is part of human nature...like being sexual.
Does that mean babies are sexual?
No - it means they are born with sexuality being part of what it means to be human.
I agreed that there are exceptions to the rules and hope I made it clear enough that I was speaking in general terms.
The main point I was making was how the inherent knowing is manipulated by the external...I wonder why you skipped that bit altogether? It is quite likely why it appears concepts of good and evil are educated from external source but does not mean that we don't know. I even gave examples.
If forgiveness worked for you on resolving your issues then that's fine. It does nothing for me but piss me off further which adds to the anger. Why should I forgive anything?
Because it is helpful to your process.
The way I handle things is to try to see beyond the behavior of the offender, even those that harm me in some way. I do not forgive, but it if I understand the motivation behind an action, I'm much more likely to move past it.
It seems to me that in order to do this you have to forgive. Part of forgiveness involves understanding motivation but the forgiveness isn't just about understanding the motivation ["oh poor thing it happened to him/her too when they were a kid and they are just lashing out - I forgive him/her] it is about being able to not become a victimiser by understanding that even if that were the case, it is still no excuse for doing it yourself.
But - if what you say is true and works for you - that you do not forgive but try to understand the motivation behind the harm done to you (whatever that might be) then I am not one to quibble -if it works and you are a better person for it then how you got there isn't the important thing - that you got there is the important thing.
Likewise. if someone says forgiveness was part of their process for 'getting there' and they got there, then that should be acceptable to you as well, right?
This is my learned coping mechanism. I certainly don't act with the situation. People as a general rule don't like confrontation, even civil confrontation, because it generates shame. If you feel you are being victimized then stand up for yourself in an appropriate way.
That is one way of acting with the situation.
offender will deny it most of the time, sometimes even vehemently, but remain calm and hold your ground. Deep down inside they know you are right. After that, they tend to leave you alone. I find very little "evil", as you call it, gets thrown my way.
What I have learned from experiencing those who have been victims of evil and have then tried to make me their victim is that they don't want to be better. They have this understanding that they have every right to feel the way they do and even that you are not the perpetrator and are simply someone who has come along years after the events and wears the crap from the victim all because the victim feels they have the right to hold onto their pain and this gives them a sense of justification and too bad that you are damaged by that. They do not care.
I have been victimized by victims and forgiveness is something which helped me, not them. I understand their reasons, but don't agree with them. I worked many years with one such person and tried all I could to support her and it took all those years to learn the lesson therein. She never wanted to heal from the pain. She wanted to inflict the pain onto others who loved her.
(Since then I have learned a bit about what is called BPD and read many online comments from those who are diagnosed with the disorder. It is a behavioral thing and something which the individual chooses but the general consensus among sufferers is that they know they are doing wrong but just can't help it. I think it is because they cling to the sense that they have every right to feel bitter etc for what they went through and this helps the disorder take hold and develop.)
Now is that evil or just something which cannot be judged good or evil? Does it fall into the grey area?
Yeah it is evil because it purposefully causes pain and I got to understand that she wanted me to feel her pain and be like her - to be the victim - her victim. I didn't know it then but she was a non diagnosed BPD at least according to first hand information I read from those diagnosed with BPD. What they do to others is evil - that they say they can't stop doing it is pitiful.
And yes, I could see it like a virus...it had gotten hold of her through the actions of those who took her in childhood and did evil to her...and I eventually could see that the problem was one that had been going from generation to generation for many generations and the 'virus' went back down the line to whoever it was (long forgotten) who first perpetrated evil into the original family and that it was this individual who was being represented in all who suffered as a result, right through those generations and who - rather than break the chain, for whatever reasons (survival etc) chose to represent the original perpetrator - the one who first brought the virus into this family.
That is how both good and evil work. We inherently know good from evil but sometimes choose evil because it feels justified and to hell with the consequences...
Forgiveness is never part of the deal to those who still have issue and do not want to break the chain of such process but rather inevitably carry the baton instead...not saying they know that this is what they do...some do and some don't and all to different degrees of knowing.
Now from the process what did I learn from the pain? I learned to be more careful about people. I learned to look for those without such issues and leave the ones with such issues to their own games etc. I learned that I was no ones victim ever.
there is an old saying 'forgive and forget.' I don't agree. That is not wisdom. What I think is 'forgive but never forget.' Because if you forgive and forget, you will eventually sooner or later find yourself in a similar position...some spiritual people call this the 'law of attraction' - because you have chosen to forget how you got yourself into that position in the the first place you are more likely to repeat the mistake. Forgive and move on - sure - i am open to someone being able to change but I would definitely require a lot of evidence before I accepted they genuinely have.
I seek out good people - surround myself with like minded caring individuals. I don't have any time for those who prove to be of evil intent. Sometime yes, it is hard to tell...as such I 'reserve the right' to withhold opinion until such a time as it is clear.
