Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread II

Fudbucker said:
I credited Bernie, and credit also has to be given to Clinton for not really going negative. She never unleashed her bull dogs on Sanders, and she could have, when Sanders had that surge and was winning 7 contests in a row. She chose to portray herself as the rational candidate (which is certainly not the worst attack you can make on an opponent), and that was kind of risky. I credit her for staying calm and not unloading on Bernie when he was surging and out-fundraising her and had that brief moment of possibility.
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That history is more than a bit revisionist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-2016-proxies-attack-bernie-sanders-213359

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ign-attacks-intensify-halt-sanders-win-streak

http://www.ibtimes.com/hispanic-hil...rnie-sanders-record-immigration-ahead-2313532

http://suggestive.com/clintons-surrogates-attacks-on-sanders-civil-rights-history-will-backfire/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-surrogate-sanders-not-a-true-friend-to-black

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vid...p-attacks-against-bernie-sanders-605357123586

just a sampling,...many, many more.

I'm not saying that such should not be expected, but, it would be completely delusional to believe that there was not a strong and rabid multi-level establishment Democratic party (and especially, Clinton campaign led) attack on Sanders after he became more than an opposition name without any national campaign record.
 
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Segnosaur said:
...I have no fault with that, but that in itself doesn't mean that single payer is the best system, even if it does have the potential to alleviate some of the problems...
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Where do you get the idea that a single-payer primary healthcare system means that there is no room or place for private healthcare?

There won't be many places where it is profitable, but neither expanded Medicare for all (which is essentially federal health insurance), nor most all of the most popular variants of Universal healthcare (more akin to the VA medical system, if we are looking at comparable US variants) exclude or outlaw parallel private coverage, they just tend to make it more expensive and less profitable.

Medicare for all and even universal healthcare, are more safety-net services meant to generate a higher standard of health maintenance and chronic ailment prevention/treatment as well as emergency care and repair in the case of emergent disease and injury.
 
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Trakar said:
That history is more than a bit revisionist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-2016-proxies-attack-bernie-sanders-213359

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ign-attacks-intensify-halt-sanders-win-streak

http://www.ibtimes.com/hispanic-hil...rnie-sanders-record-immigration-ahead-2313532

http://suggestive.com/clintons-surrogates-attacks-on-sanders-civil-rights-history-will-backfire/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-surrogate-sanders-not-a-true-friend-to-black

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vid...p-attacks-against-bernie-sanders-605357123586

just a sampling,...many, many more.

I'm not saying that such should not be expected, but, it would be completely delusional to believe that there was not a strong and rabid multi-level establishment Democratic party (and especially, Clinton campaign led) attack on Sanders after he became more than an opposition name without any national campaign record.
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Jeebus! "Strong and rabid?" Hyperbole much?

Bernie was trying to stake a moral claim to sections of the demographic that Hillary's team felt they had better credentials on. This kind of pitty-pat is far from a strong campaign.

Many have tried to tell you over the course of the past half-year.... that is NOTHING compared to what Fox and the Right Wing Crazies would bring down on him. These were minor and typical attacks. And gentle, whether you like it or not. Where are the real attacks? I'm a left winger, and I know they were coming if he got the nomination.

In any order, he'd have had Judicial Watch launching a FOIA suit to get every smidgen of communications on him, including State Department records on his applications for his trips to commie-ville. Any trouble getting that info? Hey, let's launch a congressional committee to examine whether or not he broke the Alien and Sedition laws or the Espionage Act of 1918. "Sanders under investigation for treason" makes a nice headline. "Castro's friend, Bernie Sanders", nice pics available, too.

Really. Get serious. This is low-grade attack stuff. They didn't even get Carville out of the fenced in junkyard dog compound they keep him in.
 
#BernieOrBust movement now camping around Philly with plans to #OccupyDNC

Just a few weeks before the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, an unusual trend is happening at local campsites around the city of brotherly love. Members of the #BernieOrBust movement have locked up campground reservations in place of hotels and other housing. But what is the city doing in response? RT America’s Manila Chan reports.

Watch the 2 minute video:
RT America's coverage of the #BernieOrBust movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmakZUxZnVI (July 5, 2016)
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RT America is a TV channel that is based in Washington, D.C.

Reference:
#BernieOrBust
#OccupyDNC
 
Trakar said:
That history is more than a bit revisionist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-2016-proxies-attack-bernie-sanders-213359

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ign-attacks-intensify-halt-sanders-win-streak

http://www.ibtimes.com/hispanic-hil...rnie-sanders-record-immigration-ahead-2313532

http://suggestive.com/clintons-surrogates-attacks-on-sanders-civil-rights-history-will-backfire/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-surrogate-sanders-not-a-true-friend-to-black

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vid...p-attacks-against-bernie-sanders-605357123586

just a sampling,...many, many more.

I'm not saying that such should not be expected, but, it would be completely delusional to believe that there was not a strong and rabid multi-level establishment Democratic party (and especially, Clinton campaign led) attack on Sanders after he became more than an opposition name without any national campaign record.
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This is real softball stuff and boils down to "He's a socialist, I'm a realist. I'm more credible when it comes to Civil Rights." Very minor league attacks.
 
Foolmewunz said:
You're not even trying any longer. Based in Washington, DC are they? Everyone knows who RT are.
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Honestly, I didn't know who RT were, having never heard of them before. Then again, I don't watch a lot of Russian Television.

RT AmericaWP is part of the RT network, which is a global multilingual television news network that is based in Moscow, Russia.

Why, again, are conservatives promoting Russian "news" about American topics?
 
Fudbucker said:
This is real softball stuff and boils down to "He's a socialist, I'm a realist. I'm more credible when it comes to Civil Rights." Very minor league attacks.
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You act as if Socialist programs haven't permeated and have been part of the American fabric since FDR. Hell one could say that public education is a socialist program.

Raising the minimum wage which when adjusted for inflation is close to the lowest it's been since it was introduced. Have you forgot Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance

All these programs were decried as Socialist even Communist. I support most of Bernie's proposals and don't believe for a second that the American economy will come crashing down if we implement them. I want a President and a Congress will do something about the power of the banks, big pharma and rebuild America's infrastructure.

These are not unrealistic or things to fight for. Note* Clinton embraced free tuition for students from families earning under 125 K a year as well as enrollment for Medicare to 55 and federal funds for more low income clinics. All, Sanders proposals...sort of a Sanders light.
 
acbytesla said:
You act as if Socialist programs haven't permeated and have been part of the American fabric since FDR. Hell one could say that public education is a socialist program.

Raising the minimum wage which when adjusted for inflation is close to the lowest it's been since it was introduced. Have you forgot Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance

All these programs were decried as Socialist even Communist. I support most of Bernie's proposals and don't believe for a second that the American economy will come crashing down if we implement them. I want a President and a Congress will do something about the power of the banks, big pharma and rebuild America's infrastructure.

These are not unrealistic or things to fight for. Note* Clinton embraced free tuition for students from families earning under 125 K a year as well as enrollment for Medicare to 55 and federal funds for more low income clinics. All, Sanders proposals...sort of a Sanders light.
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No one's questioning any of this. It was a discussion with Trakar about how brutal the attacks were on Bernie. Those were powder puff attacks. Nothing compared to what the GOP would have attacked him with. It's been a repeated point that many of us have been trying to get through to some of the more stubborn and, to their credit, loyal Bernie supporters. Clinton's people hyping her own selling points or downplaying his is certainly not a "rabid" attack. The Dems went very easy on him and so did the GOP. But the GOP wouldn't have continued to do so if he actually took the nomination.
 
Foolmewunz said:
No one's questioning any of this. It was a discussion with Trakar about how brutal the attacks were on Bernie. Those were powder puff attacks. Nothing compared to what the GOP would have attacked him with. It's been a repeated point that many of us have been trying to get through to some of the more stubborn and, to their credit, loyal Bernie supporters. Clinton's people hyping her own selling points or downplaying his is certainly not a "rabid" attack. The Dems went very easy on him and so did the GOP. But the GOP wouldn't have continued to do so if he actually took the nomination.
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Then I'm in total agreement.

There were virtually no attack ads. HRC barely said a negative thing about Bernie always saying there were only minor political differences. And as much as the pubbies hate Hilary, it is nothing compared to an avowed Socialist...even if that is just a word. Like Trump, Bernie would have a problem pivoting to the center for the GE. And right now the traditional business community is having extreme difficulty supporting Trump which would be much less of a problem for Trump if Bernie was the Dem's nominee.
 
acbytesla said:
Then I'm in total agreement.

There were virtually no attack ads. HRC barely said a negative thing about Bernie always saying there were only minor political differences. And as much as the pubbies hate Hilary, it is nothing compared to an avowed Socialist...even if that is just a word. Like Trump, Bernie would have a problem pivoting to the center for the GE. And right now the traditional business community is having extreme difficulty supporting Trump which would be much less of a problem for Trump if Bernie was the Dem's nominee.
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I don't think he would. He's issue-driven, not ego-driven, like Trump. Bernie ran a pretty good campaign that stayed on message and only made a couple missteps. Further, his policies really aren't that liberal. National healthcare is where we're inevitably headed (either through national insurance coverage or national health care), and everyone knows it. Free college could have been watered a down a bit for American audiences (Hillary's workfare program) There's overwhelming support to raising the minimum wage, at least to $10. We're becoming less and less a center-right country.
 
Fudbucker said:
I don't think he would. He's issue-driven, not ego-driven, like Trump. Bernie ran a pretty good campaign that stayed on message and only made a couple missteps. Further, his policies really aren't that liberal. National healthcare is where we're inevitably headed (either through national insurance coverage or national health care), and everyone knows it. Free college could have been watered a down a bit for American audiences (Hillary's workfare program) There's overwhelming support to raising the minimum wage, at least to $10. We're becoming less and less a center-right country.
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Hey, don't get me wrong. I like Bernie and have long before many of these people supporting him today ever heard his name. I'm thrilled that he has been able to move the political discussion to the left. Something that I believe Clinton agrees with but I think was and would be playing it safe. I think HRC is a realist and knows how hard it is to bring about change. Sometimes, I think that has an effect of making her perhaps too timid. Bernie has been singing this tune for a long time and people ignored him before.

I think it's a sign of the times that Hillary is now promoting some of Bernie's positions.
 
acbytesla said:
Hey, don't get me wrong. I like Bernie and have long before many of these people supporting him today ever heard his name. I'm thrilled that he has been able to move the political discussion to the left. Something that I believe Clinton agrees with but I think was and would be playing it safe. I think HRC is a realist and knows how hard it is to bring about change. Sometimes, I think that has an effect of making her perhaps too timid. Bernie has been singing this tune for a long time and people ignored him before.

I think it's a sign of the times that Hillary is now promoting some of Bernie's positions.
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It sounds like Bernie won some major victories, and lost on TPP, which is fascinating because now the Democrats are the party of free trade and the GOP are the isolationists. I'd never thought I'd see the day.

I think what Bernie really wants is to get Warren to run as VP. Then Clinton will be under constant pressure to tack leftward economically. Warren is as issue-drive as Bernie on economic fairness, and if Clinton picks her, that will inspire a lot of Bernie supporters. But it's politically risky.
 
d4m10n said:
Mad props to Bernie for being the most anti-science candidate in the race, with respect to GMOs...

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/2016/07/09/skepticism-brief-gmos-climate-change/


How embarrassing for the skeptics who supported him.
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Good heavens! Well, let's all support Hillary instead. Sure, she was all about invading Iraq, but she apparently has the correct approved position on labelling potato chips so that's just fine.

I wonder exactly when Clinton's more irritating supporters will finally feel confident enough in their candidate to stop trying to trash Sanders?
 
TragicMonkey said:
I wonder exactly when Clinton's more irritating supporters will finally feel confident enough in their candidate to stop trying to trash Sanders?
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Said right after he tries to trash Clinton in the previous paragraph:

TragicMonkey said:
Good heavens! Well, let's all support Hillary instead. Sure, she was all about invading Iraq, but she apparently has the correct approved position on labelling potato chips so that's just fine.
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Or is this more of the "but it's ok when *I* do it" bashing from Sanders supporters?
 
wareyin said:
Said right after he tries to trash Clinton in the previous paragraph:



Or is this more of the "but it's ok when *I* do it" bashing from Sanders supporters?
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You're missing the point. If Sanders' supporters are supposed to feel "embarrassed" because of one single position Sanders holds, then surely the same applies to Clinton supporters and Clinton's positions. I selected one of Clinton's positions. Are Clinton's supporters "embarrassed" of that? Or is this more of the "but it's okay when Clinton does it" from Clinton supporters?
 
TragicMonkey said:
You're missing the point. If Sanders' supporters are supposed to feel "embarrassed" because of one single position Sanders holds, then surely the same applies to Clinton supporters and Clinton's positions. I selected one of Clinton's positions. Are Clinton's supporters "embarrassed" of that? Or is this more of the "but it's okay when Clinton does it" from Clinton supporters?
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Are you certain that Sanders supporters are supposed to feel "embarrassed" because of one single position that he holds? I thought this was just one example among many previously provided.

Still, if pointing out a flawed understanding by Sanders amounts to "trashing" him, this may explain why Sanders supporters seem to think he was "attacked" (see Trakar at the top of the page for an example).
 
TragicMonkey said:
Good heavens! Well, let's all support Hillary instead. Sure, she was all about invading Iraq, but she apparently has the correct approved position on labelling potato chips so that's just fine.

I wonder exactly when Clinton's more irritating supporters will finally feel confident enough in their candidate to stop trying to trash Sanders?
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Who's trying to trash Sanders?
 
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