CCW holder killed reaching for ID.

truethat said:
How can anyone watch that video and not see the basket case nervous wreck cop? He's freaking out. That's not a properly trained cop. That's why the man was killed.
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How did you act the first time you shot someone?
 
Pterodactyl said:
How did you act the first time you shot someone?
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Exactly .. Ive had an unusually large volume of firearms shotgun pistol and rifle .. I've hunted animals since I was a young boy, served in the military (reserves) but never in battle, had lots of pretend missions and blank fire battles.

I've defended expensive livestock and poultry against animals that might want to eat them.

I have NO IDEA what it might be like to shoot someone :( ... and I have no idea how I might act/react in that kind of situation, and hope I never find out!

I live in an area where I feel no need to have a firearm at the ready for personal protection and have never felt the need to do so.
 
This is much more typical of the kind of events that occur around here -- at least, in "that" area. I mean, like, weekly.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/08/north-mpls-shooting/

Upchurch said:
Because there is such a low expectation for what trained professional law enforcement agents can and cannot understand, the solution to this problem is to train everyone else the right and wrong ways to deal with the police?

I really don't understand this view point.
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Because if I am in a situation where I can be shot and killed, I want to do everything I can to prevent that and not count on the other guy not having had six cups of coffee that morning.
 
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Yeggster said:
Exactly .. Ive had an unusually large volume of firearms shotgun pistol and rifle .. I've hunted animals since I was a young boy, served in the military (reserves) but never in battle, had lots of pretend missions and blank fire battles.

I've defended expensive livestock and poultry against animals that might want to eat them.

I have NO IDEA what it might be like to shoot someone :( ... and I have no idea how I might act/react in that kind of situation, and hope I never find out!

I live in an area where I feel no need to have a firearm at the ready for personal protection and have never felt the need to do so.
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Decent police forces train their cops properly. In use of firearms and how to behave if they use firearms. This training doesn't include "screeching like a child and arguing with the partner of someone shot".
 
lionking said:
Decent police forces train their cops properly. In use of firearms and how to behave if they use firearms. This training doesn't include "screeching like a child and arguing with the partner of someone shot".
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That's interesting. Tell me more about this "just shot a guy, and how to control your emotions" training.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Since data on unarmed men killed by cops is not kept, where do you recommend we look?
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Don't know, don't care where you look. A claim was made; much like the idiotic ones we see from truthers who say the WTC was a CD based on reports that firefighters "heard explosions". It was implied that the Raleigh police will kill blacks for certain activities but allow whites to live. Tell us what your research reveals instead of settling for a mere anecdote.

Ranb
 
A'isha said:
You'd think the NRA would be all over this, but they've been strangely silent.
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Are you certain they're not merely waiting for more info prior to making a statement? Is this the first CCW holder that was killed by the police that they have failed to comment on right away?

Ranb
 
Planigale said:
I am from England. i have been stopped once in a hire car in Arizona. I probably did all the things I was not supposed to do. So I guess i am lucky not to be shot.
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Not lucky at all. I've been pulled over in Minnesota, Virginia, Florida, Idaho, Texas and Oklahoma. Never did I freeze with my hands on the wheel. I never told them I had a concealed carry permit and I never saw their hand on their sidearm when getting my registration or license out. I've never had a reason to fear the police.

Ranb
 
lionking said:
Decent police forces train their cops properly. In use of firearms and how to behave if they use firearms. This training doesn't include "screeching like a child and arguing with the partner of someone shot".
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There's no training for that ... watch the blood drain out of a kid and the life dim in his eyes is not covered.

Firearms training is only a small part of police training ... most forces it's a half day once a year ... at a paper target, indoors, that's not moving.
 
Pterodactyl said:
How did you act the first time you shot someone?
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I'm a person, not a COP. What part of this is so hard for people to understand? You don't throw inexperienced, reckless, untrained, nervous cops out into the world and give them a gun and permission to shoot people.

There was NO REASON for him to shoot the guy. I said this before and I'll say it again. We live in a country where it is LEGAL to carry a gun. So enough of this ******** that the cop saw a gun and felt he was in danger. Why would you feel you are in danger when a person is doing something perfectly legal? You can't have it both ways. Why would you panic when someone is doing something perfectly LEGAL?


People have guns all over the place. He informed the cop that he had a gun and then the cop shot him for reaching towards the gun. He didn't dispute the woman saying her story. He panicked.

Here's a nice example. Again, it's LEGAL. Both men did something completely legal. Look at the difference and tell me that racism has nothing to do with it.

How far down the rabbit hole of denial have people packed themselves that they cannot see what is plainly obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXv2Pjtc3Zk
 
truethat said:
.... We live in a country where it is LEGAL to carry a gun. ..... Why would you panic when someone is doing something perfectly LEGAL?
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Well? .. you have good point there ... In Canada there's not many places where people can carry a gun around ... but it's happened to me a few times

.. I've seen police officers, whom were at the gun range, and perfectly comfortable with all of us having pistols in our holsters

I've been stopped by armed hunting conservation officers (routine checking licenses) and they had no problem I was holding a shotgun or rifle

That's police "interacting with the pubic" .. not that different really from reminding someone they have a "busted out taillight"

Good point.
 
Yeggster said:
Well? .. you have good point there ... In Canada there's not many places where people can carry a gun around ... but it's happened to me a few times

.. I've seen police officers, whom were at the gun range, and perfectly comfortable with all of us having pistols in our holsters

I've been stopped by armed hunting conservation officers (routine checking licenses) and they had no problem I was holding a shotgun or rifle

That's police "interacting with the pubic" .. not that different really from reminding someone they have a "busted out taillight"

Good point.
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If a white guy was in a car and told the cop he had a gun, the impression would be that he was a card carrying member of the NRA and a red blooded American.

The only time a cop might panic would be if the white guy looked like a Meth head in the car. Then he might "look like trouble" and the cop would react differently.

That's the essential problem. It's both class and race. Black men "look like trouble" because they are black. Until we acknowledge this discrepancy and admit the bias, then nothing will change.


We've gotten used to them dragging out previous records, or trying to use the guys previous history to justify the cops initial perception. But this guy was a "good guy" who "looked like trouble" just because he was black.

The cop couldn't compute beyond that. Not consider the 4 year old in the back seat and the obviously calm demeanor of his girlfriend. It didn't register. All that registered is "black guy with a gun - thug"
 
Early local news reports that the audio of the incident (the first part, that was not filmed), does not correlate with the narrated description of what happened.

Although this never should have happened, I believe it's more of a horrendous mistake than an execution. Of course the guy was shaken after he realized that mistake.
 
alfaniner said:
Early local news reports that the audio of the incident (the first part, that was not filmed), does not correlate with the narrated description of what happened.

Although this never should have happened, I believe it's more of a horrendous mistake than an execution. Of course the guy was shaken after he realized that mistake.
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Someone today, a black friend of mine, begged white people to stop being silent and to "say something." I couldn't think of what to say.

Then I wrote this. This is how I feel about what you just said.

Ok I'll say something. I think a lot of white people aren't saying anything because we're ashamed of what we have seen over the last two days. And we feel like it's intrusive to step into the dialogue because coming from a position of privilege it's once again making it about "our opinion" on something we really cannot understand.

We think about the shame and then can't quite put our finger on what we are ashamed about because we've been on the side of justice and equality for so long. So we might feel like we're adding fuel to the fire. Or speaking up when we ought to just shut up and listen.

I've said as much on another friends wall. I'm speechless. And so after thinking about this for two days, and wondering where the shame is located in my heart, I realize what I'm ashamed about and what I'd like to say to the black community.

I'm sorry I didn't believe you before I had to see death after death on camera. I'm sorry that when incidents like this happened in the past I was so easily manipulated by the media spin that pointed out that the person involved "had a juvenile record" or "was reaching for a gun" or ...or...or...

I'm sorry I cut the bad cops slack and thought "It was a misunderstanding that cost someone their life, but it wasn't racism."

I'm sorry I participated in creating a paradigm where I was hoping that there would be a rational reason and I let my own cognitive dissonance accept the "ridiculous excuse" as valid instead of understanding the truth.

I'm sorry for every second I didn't pay enough attention, I didn't take the claims seriously, I judged that people who have interactions with the police might have been complicit in the consequence. I'm sorry for every single time I didn't believe you. I have not only blood on my hands, I have the wounds of a community, the deep sadness, the injustice and ruins of a country on my hands. All because. for over 15 years I didn't believe you. And for this I am deeply ashamed. I will do better, I promise you.
 
truethat said:
I'm a person, not a COP. What part of this is so hard for people to understand?
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So basically what you were saying, before the long rant, was that you've never shot someone and have no idea how you or anyone would likely react after doing so. K thx.
 
truethat said:
He informed the cop that he had a gun and then the cop shot him for reaching towards the gun.
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Perhaps you missed the multiple times it been pointed out that the girlfriend disagrees with your statement. She says he was reaching in his pocket when, not after, he informed the cop he had a gun.

To make it very clear the girlfriend's story is:
  1. Cop asks for ID
  2. Boyfriend starts reaching in pocket for ID
  3. Boyfriend tells cop he has gun
If you want the direct quotes from the transcript of her video and paraphrases from the Guardian look back up thread.

This incident is a horrible tragedy with little documentation, we should stick to the most accurate information we can in this discussion.
 
I love how something that looks like the belt part of the seatbelt on his lap is now being construed as a "gun." It could very well be his cell phone. But nooooooo anything to find an "excuse." If you read the link it's "Doesn't it make MORE sense to believe that the cop shot him because he fit the description of a criminal"
 
Ranb said:
Are you certain they're not merely waiting for more info prior to making a statement? Is this the first CCW holder that was killed by the police that they have failed to comment on right away?

Ranb
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No, they're not saying anything because the victims were black. Just *********** say it.
 
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