CCW holder killed reaching for ID.

Nessie said:
I forgot that common sense and cooperation do not apply in the USA when it comes to guns.
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Your lack of understanding of federalism isn't our problem. This is a constitutionality thing, not a gun thing, and it applies to criminal law generally, not just guns.
 
Wayward son said:
This gets confusing. 2 years ago Sean Hannity, knowing police treat white and black people the exact same, told people how to not get shot by the police and in his imaginary experiences of being pulled over the very first thing you needed to do was tell the officer you had a gun. Now it is the opposite.
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Well, there's your problem.
 
Donal said:
Can we find some other term instead of civilian? Police officers are civilians, not an occupying military force. I think part of the problem is that many people, including LEOs do not see it this way.
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I agree with you .. but the english language and dictionaries do not.

Civilian is defined as "a person not in the armed services or the police force"
 
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Yeggster said:
That is NOT the law in Minnesota you are not required to notify there.
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That's true. However, Minnesota courts have also held that they can arrest you for having a firearm without even inquiring as to your permit status. So take that into account when you decide to "hide the ball" on your gun permit.
 
Yeggster said:
I agree with you .. but the english language and dictionaries do not.
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Dictionaries tend to reflect broadest usage. The Geneva Convention and most codes of war place law enforcement officers in the category of civilians.
 
AdamSK said:
Your lack of understanding of federalism isn't our problem. This is a constitutionality thing, not a gun thing, and it applies to criminal law generally, not just guns.
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I understand federalism. The English/Welsh and Scottish legal systems are different, except when it makes sense to cooperate and have one law covering both. For example, in the UK the Firearms Act covers all of the country.

US states could do the same thing. The constitution does not make it impossible.

One simple system across the USA on how to act when stopped by police and you have a gun is common sense. It would not harm anyone. it would have a positive benefit.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Not seeing the relation here.
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When deciding whether a condition on federal funding is lawful, whether it is reasonably related to the expenditure of funds is part of the consideration. You can withhold highway funds on a condition that effects highway safety, for example, but you can't withhold funds for fighting HIV/AIDS if an organization refuses to vocally oppose prostitution.
 
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AdamSK said:
That's true. However, Minnesota courts have also held that they can arrest you for having a firearm without even inquiring as to your permit status. So take that into account when you decide to "hide the ball" on your gun permit.
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I don't understand why you are referring to me personally?

I neither live in the US, nor have a gun permit.
 
has the shooter cop been tested for steroids ?

when the famous baseball player A-Rod was caught for steroids
more cops then pro-sports guys were found to be using steroids
from that one local illegal clinic

steroid use is known to result in paranoia and roid-rage
an esp dangerous STATE in an armed cop ON THE STREETS
BUT VERY VERY FEW COPS ARE TESTED FOR STERIODS
 
I got pulled over once when I used to carry, and the method I used worked very well. I rolled down the window and put my hands on the steering wheel. Then I told the officer, "I have a weapon. I have a permit to carry it concealed. It is in the glove compartment with the weapon. I am going to slowly open the glove compartment and remove the permit." He said that would be okay, and I did what I said I would do. We talked pistols for a couple minutes and he let me off with a warning (don't even remember what he pulled me over for).

It probably helped that I'm white.

We don't know for sure what happened prior to Castile being shot, but I'm leaning heavily toward the girlfriend's account that the cop at best screwed up royally. We only see him after he's shot Castile, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that he was "hysterical" because he had just shot someone to death, and not that he had been in that state before pulling the trigger (at least that's how it sounds to me, which leads me away from "cold blooded murder" for the time being). I'm thinking jumpy cop, waaaaay too quick on the draw (assuming he didn't have his pistol aimed at Castile with finger on trigger in the first place) who saw in his mind a black man with a gun who reached for it too quickly and panicked or fired out of reflex. At the end of the day every scenario is unacceptable.
 
nota said:
has the shooter cop been tested for steroids ?

when the famous baseball player A-Rod was caught for steroids
more cops then pro-sports guys were found to be using steroids
from that one local illegal clinic

steroid use is known to result in paranoia and roid-rage
an esp dangerous STATE in an armed cop ON THE STREETS
BUT VERY VERY FEW COPS ARE TESTED FOR STERIODS
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Would not doubt steroids as part of the problem.
 
People on this forum continue to don the robes of authority and speak as if they had expertise, but I don't think even one of us has been shot and killed by a cop.
 
Polaris said:
I got pulled over once when I used to carry, and the method I used worked very well. I rolled down the window and put my hands on the steering wheel. Then I told the officer, "I have a weapon. I have a permit to carry it concealed. It is in the glove compartment with the weapon. I am going to slowly open the glove compartment and remove the permit."
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Here's where I think the litany is important. I'd do it this way:

Once the officer asks the first question (likely "Do you know why I pulled you over?") my reply would be "No" and assuming I could continue without being interrupted, "I have to tell you that I have a permit (let that sink in) to carry a concealed weapon", and follow up with whatever questions or instructions he gives.

My main point being -- the first operative word should be "permit", not "weapon".
 
Yeggster said:
“Officer, I want to let you know that I have a concealed carry permit, I currently have one on my person. How would you like me to proceed?”

If he asks for ID you say ... "I am Carrying in a waistband holster located about 5 o’clock which is the same general location as my wallet wallet ... do you want me to go ahead?"
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Then it should be on the officer to, instead of saying "get your ID", say "if your ID is near your gun then slowly step out of the car with your hands where I can see them; only if your ID is distant from your gun should you get out your ID and show it to me".
 
alfaniner said:
My main point being -- the first operative word should be "permit", not "weapon".
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Because there is such a low expectation for what trained professional law enforcement agents can and cannot understand, the solution to this problem is to train everyone else the right and wrong ways to deal with the police?

I really don't understand this view point.
 
How can anyone watch that video and not see the basket case nervous wreck cop? He's freaking out. That's not a properly trained cop. That's why the man was killed.
 
truethat said:
How can anyone watch that video and not see the basket case nervous wreck cop? He's freaking out. That's not a properly trained cop. That's why the man was killed.
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Is that video from before the shooting? I saw the post-shooting transcript and, yeah, he was nervous there.

If you're referencing the same thing I saw the transcript of, I don't think that speaks to his training. Any decent human being should be a nervous wreck after finding out they just shot a man who didn't deserve it.
 
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