Official - Michael Jackson was scum

[TragicMonkey]

Just explain the pay-offs and the little kid describing his knob mark and you might convince me

Oh, no I couldn't. You are not open to reason. You are unwilling to think critically. You have made up your mind, just as stupidly stubborn as any religionist or rabid nationalist. You are, in a nutshell, not worth talking to.

 

[cullennz]

It would help if you had a rational explanation and not just ignoring those two facts

I'm perfectly open to reason

And would you let your kid stay in his bed for the night?

I look at it as a complete bystander

I never the met the geezer, but these two facts don't add up to him being Peter Pan "not the fiddling man"

 

[Mumbles]

It would help if you had a rational explanation and not just ignoring those two facts

I'm perfectly open to reason

And would you let your kid stay in his bed for the night?

I look at it as a complete bystander

I never the met the geezer, but these two facts don't add up to him being Peter Pan "not the fiddling man"

I'm not a parent, but I'm guessing most parents would say "no" and would also say it if you replaced MJ with any other adult they don't really know.

It's not a very good argument, as far as I can tell.

 

[cullennz]

I'm not a parent, but I'm guessing most parents would say "no" and would also say it if you replaced MJ with any other adult they don't really know.

It's not a very good argument, as far as I can tell.

Fair call

 

[Marcus]

Just explain the pay-offs and the little kid describing his knob mark and you might convince me

The pay-offs are easy. Just to make it stop, the trials, the attention, the pain. Or perhaps just because his lawyers told him to. Or, he didn't pay anyone off, it was the insurance company. In any case, the money meant nothing, he had an endless supply.

You have already been presented with a solid case for why the kids testimony is highly suspect. He is supposedly very familiar with MJ's junk, seeing it constantly, yet makes basic mistakes like whether he is circumcised or not.

People will do almost anything for a shot at millions of dollars. Like coach their kid on what to say.

 

[cullennz]

The pay-offs are easy. Just to make it stop, the trials, the attention, the pain. Or perhaps just because his lawyers told him to. Or, he didn't pay anyone off, it was the insurance company. In any case, the money meant nothing, he had an endless supply.

You have already been presented with a solid case for why the kids testimony is highly suspect. He is supposedly very familiar with MJ's junk, seeing it constantly, yet makes basic mistakes like whether he is circumcised or not.

People will do almost anything for a shot at millions of dollars. Like coach their kid on what to say.

So Jackson liked to let hang out for kids on multiple occasions

 

[Delvo]

I'm perfectly open to reason... I look at it as a complete bystander

No, your "explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs" mantra clearly disproves that. It's an inherently flagrantly dishonest argument, and those are not the work of someone who is being reasonable or uninvested.

 

[cullennz]

No, your "explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs explain the payoffs" mantra clearly disproves that. It's an inherently flagrantly dishonest argument, and those are not the work of someone who is being reasonable or uninvested.

Are you trying to tell me something?

 

[TheGoldcountry]

So Jackson liked to let hang out for kids on multiple occasions

I think that point went over your head by about a foot.

The prosecution made the implication that the kid saw his junk many times, yet handwaved it away when he stumbled on certain details.

 

[cullennz]

Whatever.

You don't suddenly grow a birth mark

 

[Checkmite]

For what it's worth, I don't think "would you let your child sleep in his bed with him" is a very useful measuring stick. I don't have children; but I'm fairly confident I would likely not allow them to sleep in a bed together with some strange adult no matter whether I suspected that person of being a pedophile or not.

On the other hand, I'm quite nonplussed whenever I read a person replying to that question with "yes", that they would certainly let their children spend "alone time" with a strange adult, in that adult's bedroom, in the adult's bed, apparently as long as there wasn't positive proof the adult was a pedophile who specifically planned to molest their child. I do not understand the mindset. To me it has nothing to do with "pedo fear" specifically, but more to do with a need to reinforce the concept of boundaries and a sense of what is and what is not an appropriate relationship to have with an adult in my kid.

Michael Jackson was able to make these things happen because of his fame and money. I try to imagine my neighbor who I don't talk with very often - or my lawyer, or my boss, or a close friend at work, or even an adult my son would already have a close relationship with like a baseball coach or a scout leader or something - coming up to me one day like "Hey, is it okay if your 10-year-old son comes over to my house and sleeps in my bedroom with me tonight? We'll have lots of good clean fun." No matter what face I put behind those words, it never stops being a completely preposterous notion.

 

[Mister Earl]

Whatever.

You don't suddenly grow a birth mark

I'll be the one to first directly ask *you* to provide evidence. Please provide documentation that supports that the mark found was a "birthmark" and not a temporary thing as a result of skin disease.

You make this assertion as if it was fact. So, back it up.

 

[cullennz]

I'll be the one to first directly ask *you* to provide evidence. Please provide documentation that supports that the mark found was a "birthmark" and not a temporary thing as a result of skin disease.

You make this assertion as if it was fact. So, back it up.

How can it be temporary if it was still there on examination?

 

[Mister Earl]

How can it be temporary if it was still there on examination?

So I take it this means that you're incapable or unwilling to back up your assertion with evidence? I am not going to indulge your "Just asking questions!" methodology, because that goes nowhere. For evidence of that, look at the entire 9/11 "Truther" movement and how far that's gotten.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Let's take some of your tabloid nonsense,... one at a time.

> Where did you get the information of Jackson paying out twenty million in hush money?

Please cite your sources. "It just seems to me..." and "I heard from a guy who read it on the internet" are NOT "sources" of repute.

 

[DragonLady]

How can it be temporary if it was still there on examination?

You still haven't read the link I posted, have you?

The drawing the kid provided was an educated guess. Of the numerous splotches, blotches and marks he claimed covered MJ's nethers, the defense only attempted to enter ONE as being at "about" the right place.

They were banking on being able to use the skin disorder to "prove" the child's description.

But while he was able to draw all kinds of splotches, blotches, and marks because he'd supposedly seen it soooo many times and at soooo many angles and under soooo many circumstances......

Yet he never noticed the man was uncircumcised. Sorry, but in a single encounter with a freaked out kid, that might be understandable. But this kid supposedly experienced multiple intimate encounters, and yet missed the largest, most distinctive feature of all.

There's other evidence Jordan was coached. There's a crude drawing with handwritten notes that appears to be a draft made by an adult with suggestions for what MJ's body might look like.

So far as parents allowing kids to sleep with strange adults: I don't believe nearly anyone here would. But there are those who would, and do. Jordan's parents apparently knew very well Jordan was sleeping in MJ's room, but they did nothing to stop it happening. They only started crying "wolf, wolf, wolf" when MJ refused to build a new wing on to their house.

MJ was acquitted of all the charges against him. If he did anything wrong, no one was able to prove it.

 

[DragonLady]

So far as parents allowing kids to sleep with strange adults: I don't believe nearly anyone here would. But there are those who would, and do.

I'm going to try to expand on this a bit, because I really feel like it's a major point that seems to go right over the heads of many.

I think *most* of the people that find their way to this message board grew up in fairly stereotypical families: Mom, Dad, kids. Maybe grandparents and extended visited, maybe the spare room had a permanent resident aunt or other relative. But for the most part, folks here grew up in single family homes or single family apartments, that actually housed the members of a single family.

But for many people in the USA, that is a pipe dream. Two miles up the road from me there's an apartment complex that's mostly filled with temporary farm workers. They often live with three or even four families all crammed into a single two bedroom apartment. Multiple adults, multiple children, even multiple pets, all eating, living and sleeping in fairly haphazard arrangements. It's not unusual. It's not weird. It's LIFE for them. And yet, any kind of weird sexual relations between the peoples in these circumstances is just that: weird.

Many of us are descended from pioneer families who lived in tiny cabins, and all slept together in one giant bed. It wasn't strange or a disaster waiting to happen. It was just LIFE.

I don't know much about MJ's early life, or the lives of his parents. But I wouldn't be surprised if his parents lived in very small houses, with extended family. I wouldn't be surprised if they told stories of "those good ol' days" to their children, and MJ built some fantasy in his head that those kinds of sleeping arrangements were happier, healthier, and a vital part of his dream childhood.

The people he was associating with were mostly wealthier, to be sure. Jordan Chandler's father was a famous dentist. But as most or all were black, I'd guess most of them had the same communal living as part of their heritage.

When we're considering the actions of any person, we need to step back, take a longer look, and see just what kind of tail is on the damn kite before we jump to the conclusion they're too weird for words. Because what might seem alien and weird to you and I, might just be perfectly normal for THEM.

 

[HenryLee]

Initial media reports after the 1993 strip search (for example, Reuters, USA Today in January 1994), citing law enforcement sources, stated that the boy’s description did not match the photographs taken of Jackson’s genitalia. The claim that the photos matched the description spread through the media only later – particularly after an interview Sneddon gave to Vanity Fair’s Maureen Orth in September 1995 where he claimed the photographs matched Jordan’s description.

Interestingly, Dr. Richard Strick, the doctor who was present at the strip search from the authorities’ side, indicated in an interview with Fox News in October 2009 that he did not come to a conclusion on his own, but rather someone else told him later that it was a match.


“The genitalia were very oddly colored with dark skin and light skin and I was told later that the deposition and the photos that were taken absolutely matched what the child had described”.

Based on his statement it seems Dr. Strick did not actually see Jordan’s description and drawing; he was only told that there was a match. This is odd; as a medical professional, hired by the authorities to be present at the strip search, one would expect that he would have been asked to make the determination. It is unknown who told Dr. Strick that there was a match but all claims of this nature seem to point to Sneddon as a source.

http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/did-jordan-chandlers-description-of-michael-jacksons-penis-match-the-photographs-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/

Now that just seems kind of fishy.

 

[cullennz]

I'm going to try to expand on this a bit, because I really feel like it's a major point that seems to go right over the heads of many.

I think *most* of the people that find their way to this message board grew up in fairly stereotypical families: Mom, Dad, kids. Maybe grandparents and extended visited, maybe the spare room had a permanent resident aunt or other relative. But for the most part, folks here grew up in single family homes or single family apartments, that actually housed the members of a single family.

But for many people in the USA, that is a pipe dream. Two miles up the road from me there's an apartment complex that's mostly filled with temporary farm workers. They often live with three or even four families all crammed into a single two bedroom apartment. Multiple adults, multiple children, even multiple pets, all eating, living and sleeping in fairly haphazard arrangements. It's not unusual. It's not weird. It's LIFE for them. And yet, any kind of weird sexual relations between the peoples in these circumstances is just that: weird.

Many of us are descended from pioneer families who lived in tiny cabins, and all slept together in one giant bed. It wasn't strange or a disaster waiting to happen. It was just LIFE.

I don't know much about MJ's early life, or the lives of his parents. But I wouldn't be surprised if his parents lived in very small houses, with extended family. I wouldn't be surprised if they told stories of "those good ol' days" to their children, and MJ built some fantasy in his head that those kinds of sleeping arrangements were happier, healthier, and a vital part of his dream childhood.

The people he was associating with were mostly wealthier, to be sure. Jordan Chandler's father was a famous dentist. But as most or all were black, I'd guess most of them had the same communal living as part of their heritage.

When we're considering the actions of any person, we need to step back, take a longer look, and see just what kind of tail is on the damn kite before we jump to the conclusion they're too weird for words. Because what might seem alien and weird to you and I, might just be perfectly normal for THEM.

Think you will find it is the same in most other countries

 

[cullennz]

http://michaeljacksonallegations.co...s-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/

Now that just seems kind of fishy.

A link to a fansite doesn't really cut it