Proof of Immortality III

[jt512]

I wouldn't even give him that much. Infinity is not a number. It cannot be used in a mathematical equation and whatever you produce cannot be a number, either. If you've got infinity in an equation, you're no longer doing math.

The infinity symbol is not a number, but addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division by the infinity symbol are defined. In particular, division of a real number by infinity equals 0.

 

[Loss Leader]

The infinity symbol is not a number, but addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division by the infinity symbol are defined. In particular, division of a real number by infinity equals 0.

Oh, there are mathematics of infinite sets. I understand that. But Jabba is putting in a term for "very, very big" that gets him a zero instead of, you know, an actual number. And he's doing it because he wants to get zero instead of "very, very small."

And that's conceding that "very, very big" is even the right denominator, which I do not.

 

[godless dave]

Dave,
- Seven billion is my estimate of the current human population.

What does the size of the current human population have to do with the likelihood of your existence?

- If you enter the numbers I've estimated into the formula, you get a posterior probability for OOFLam of some real number over infinity (or, over an unimaginably large number).

But those numbers are based on immaterial souls existing, not immaterial souls possibly existing.

 

[Loss Leader]

What does the size of the current human population have to do with the likelihood of your existence?.

Nothing whatsoever. But Jabba will grant you as high a numerator as you want. Why? Because anything divided by infinity is zero. The numerator doesn't matter.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Seems Jabba's proof of immortality is: (Irrelevant number)/(hypothetical number)
- In an entirely arbitrary formula.

Well.....

Hans

 

[Jabba]

What does the size of the current human population have to do with the likelihood of your existence?

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

those numbers are based on immaterial souls existing, not immaterial souls possibly existing.

- Here, it's based upon the possibility that OOFLam is wrong, which essentially concedes the possible existence of immaterial souls.

 

[caveman1917]

The infinity symbol is not a number, but addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division by the infinity symbol are defined. In particular, division of a real number by infinity equals 0.

There are the real numbers, which don't include infinity and neither has operations defined with it, and there are various extensions of the real numbers which do include infinity and define those operations with it.

 

[Mojo]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

Jabba,
- If there are 7 billion human bodies available today, you have 7 billion chances for your particular self to occupy one today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

 

[JoeMorgue]

So what is it about humans that make us immortal? There is just as much mathematical complexity in countless other animals and plants and inanimate materials.

 

[jsfisher]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

Whether there is a soul or not would not change that numerator and that denominator.

- Here, it's based upon the possibility that OOFLam is wrong, which essentially concedes the possible existence of immaterial souls.

Given that the probability of your physical existence is independent of any soul, you cannot show what you want using the method you've chosen.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today.

No. Does not follow. Not at all.

But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

Only if you use a denominator that actually makes sense.

Hans

 

[ferd burfle]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today.

You are are alive today, Joabba, there is no "if". Possibly the most illogical statement you've ever made...

But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

...so this statement is (still) meaningless

- Here, it's based upon the possibility that OOFLam is wrong, which essentially concedes the possible existence of immaterial souls.

Aaaaand the cherry on top; another false dilemma. How about working in a new fallacy once in a while? Thanks to Jay your equivocations no longer challenge me and the rest are easy-peasy.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This thread needs to be immortalized, no pun intended. It's like a greatest hits of logical and argumentative fallacy. You could teach a class on how not to argue with this thread.

 

[Mojo]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

Jabba,
- If there are 7 billion human bodies available today, you have 7 billion chances for your particular self to occupy one today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

And, of course, for your particular existence your particular self has to occupy your particular body. And there's only one of those. This means that, by your own reasoning, your existence is seven billion times less likely if you have an immaterial self than it is under "OOFLam".

If you stick these figures into your formula, and apply it to the hypothesis that you have an immaterial self, you will find that you have Essentially Proved^TM "OOFLam".

 

[godless dave]

Dave,
- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today. But then, the numerator hardly matters when the denominator is infinity (or, unimaginably large).

Were there 7 billion humans alive when you were born?

- Here, it's based upon the possibility that OOFLam is wrong, which essentially concedes the possible existence of immaterial souls.

The *possible* existence. If there are no immaterial souls then infinity in your denominator makes even less sense.

 

[I Am The Scum]

So what if I get hit by a bus and die? Is my chance of being alive now 7 billion minus one?

 

[carlitos]

Dave,

- If there are 7 billion humans alive today, you have 7 billion chances to be alive today.

The stupidity in this statement is unimaginably large.

 

[jt512]

There are the real numbers, which don't include infinity and neither has operations defined with it, and there are various extensions of the real numbers which do include infinity and define those operations with it.

I know.

 

[jt512]

@caveman1917:

I had started to write a reply to this post, but hadn't had a chance to finish it because of travel. As written, I still think your claim is wrong (or incoherent). If you're still interested in the subject, let me know and I'll try to finish up my reply and post it.

 

[caveman1917]

@caveman1917:

I had started to write a reply to this post, but hadn't had a chance to finish it because of travel. As written, I still think your claim is wrong (or incoherent). If you're still interested in the subject, let me know and I'll try to finish up my reply and post it.

To me it's the same, if you want to discuss it further that's fine, if you don't that's fine too.