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Hercules and Jesus

I've also read that Jesus was based on Horus.

1. Horus born of a virgin. Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of Bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixion. Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixion. Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the title KRST which means “anointed one” Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”
Ref. Pagan Christ, Tom Harpur

Yep, it looks like everyone took the same story and tweaked it for their own purposes.
 
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GT/CS said:
I've also read that Jesus was based on Horus.

1. Horus born of a virgin. Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of Bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixion. Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixion. Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the title KRST which means “anointed one” Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”
Ref. Pagan Christ, Tom Harpur

Yep, it looks like everyone took the same story and tweaked it for their own purposes.
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This looks like nonsense. What makes you think that this Harpur is reliable? Have you checked his sources?
 
16.5 said:
Jesus Christ said that the meek shall inherit the earth and died on the cross to redeem the sins of all humanity.

I missed that about Hercules?
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But Hercules performed 12 labors! All well beyond the abilities of any ordinary man! And there is similar evidence/documentation as to what Jesus did and said versus what Hercules did and said; if anything, the narrative of Hercules is significantly older, and thus has stood the test of time longer, than that of Jesus.

I am not trolling or trying to offend you. My point is only that an assertion based entirely on a story in one book versus another story in another book can't possibly serve as a convincing indicator as to the factual truth.

Are you really so immersed in the NT that you really can't see that citing the NT is no different conceptually from citing a book of Greek religious stories? They are really precisely the same level of evidence. In fact both stories were sincerely believed as accurate by their respective followers and, I dare say, both have their advocates today. I've even approximately the same number of movies about Hercules and about Jesus.
 
16.5 said:
Horus was killed by crucifixion?

:rolleyes:
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How would that matter as to the truth of the Jesus story versus that of Horus versus Hercules?

Was Jesus killed by fire? Would that make the Jesus story less or more believable than the Hercules one?

By the way- both Jesus and Hercules volunteered for death and lived ever after among the gods.
 
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Giordano said:
But Hercules performed 12 labors! All well beyond the abilities of any ordinary man! And there is similar evidence/documentation as to what Jesus did and said versus what Hercules did and said; if anything, the narrative of Hercules is significantly older, and thus has stood the test of time longer, than that of Jesus.

I am not trolling or trying to offend you. My point is only that an assertion based entirely on a story in one book versus another story in another book can't possibly serve as a convincing indicator as to the factual truth.

Are you really so immersed in the NT that you really can't see that citing the NT is no different conceptually from citing a book of Greek religious stories? They are really precisely the same level of evidence. In fact both stories were sincerely believed as accurate by their respective followers and, I dare say, both have their advocates today. I've even approximately the same number of movies about Hercules and about Jesus.
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I'm not trying to offend you either, but you have completely and utterly missed the point again, and further, again not trying to offend you, but asserting that I cannot point out the differences in the two stories when the claim is that the Jesus story was plagerized might be about the most ridiculous god damn thing I have ever read.
 
16.5 do you believe in the gospel? Are you a Christian? Most of my friends are Christians and believe in the gospel. Just for the sake of argument. I guess what I am saying is that I want to know your bias, which I think is fair.
 
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Joey McGee said:
16.5 do you believe in the gospel? Are you a Christian? Most of my friends are Christians and believe in the gospel. Just for the sake of argument. I guess what I am saying is that I want to know your bias, which I think is fair.
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The only bias I have is against ad hominem fallacies.
 
Out of a large field you picked the poorest candidate. If there is one fallacy that is logically wrong but actually true most of the time, it is that.

Thanks for the laugh.
 
When people talk about "The Jesus Story", what are they actually referring to? The Gospel of Mark? Luke? Matthew? John? Some Apocrypha? Or a combination of some or all of those stories?

AFAIK gMark (the earliest gospel) doesn't contain anything about a virgin birth and the older shorter version contains nothing about post resurrection appearances.

These Mythicist "theories" always seem to cherry pick their similarities from different gospels and ignore the context and genre of the works they are using as comparisons.

I wonder how many pages we can drag this one out...
 
Let's be fair and civil. Two questions were asked. How do you know he is reliable? and have you checked his sources? My comment was directed at the first. Talking about sources, man we are talking about religion, those texts say whatever you want them to so the first part was all that mattered. To me.
 
16.5 said:
I'm not trying to offend you either, but you have completely and utterly missed the point again, and further, again not trying to offend you, but asserting that I cannot point out the differences in the two stories when the claim is that the Jesus story was plagerized might be about the most ridiculous god damn thing I have ever read.
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That is the point: almost all plagiarism mimics many important aspects of the prior work but doesn't duplicate it exactly (an exact duplicate would be a Xerox, not a plagiarism). If I wrote about a magical boy who dueled with an evil wizard, had his parents killed by the evil wizard, went to a school of magic, etc. would you ignore the obvious resemblance and plagiarism if his scar was on his cheek rather than his forehead?

No one is saying that a person sat down with the story of Hercules and just did a global search and replace with the name Jesus. The point is that the NT story of Jesus incorporated many of the classical aspects of pre-existing heroic myths. You may believe that it "is based on a true story." But there are clearly many key elements in it indistinguishable from stories we all accept as fiction.
 
Giordano said:
That is the point: almost all plagiarism mimics many important aspects of the prior work but doesn't duplicate it exactly (an exact duplicate would be a Xerox, not a plagiarism). If I wrote about a magical boy who dueled with an evil wizard, had his parents killed by the evil wizard, went to a school of magic, etc. would you ignore the obvious resemblance and plagiarism if his scar was on his cheek rather than his forehead?

No one is saying that a person sat down with the story of Hercules and just did a global search and replace with the name Jesus. The point is that the NT story of Jesus incorporated many of the classical aspects of pre-existing heroic myths. You may believe that it "is based on a true story." But there are clearly many key elements in it indistinguishable from stories we all accept as fiction.
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Again I ask: Which "NT story of Jesus"? They're all different. gLuke and gMatt both contain parts of gMark, some parts are only in Luke and Matt., some are only in Matt and some are only in Luke.

Then gJohn is different again from the other three...

So what are we calling "The Jesus Story"?

It's like mashing together 19th century folk stories of "Wild Bill" Hickok with the 1950s Hollywood musical "Calamity Jane" and the HBO Series "Deadwood" and calling the most outrageous version you can cobble together "The Wild Bill Story"...

Whether or not Jesus actually existed, I think the various NT sources should be considered separately, not lumped together into a pastiche called "The Jesus Story".

ETA: You can find video synopses and analysis of all the books of the bible on this site:
http://www.bibledex.com/

Fairly painless and quite useful for debates like this...
 
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On the similarities between Horus and Jesus, see the classic "The Naked Truth" video (1993). You will be amazed at the number of similarities, and how close they are! In fact, Acharya S took some of her information from that video. On Horus/Jesus, see from about 34 mins 45 secs in:
https://youtu.be/goLpfrjxDa8?t=34m45s

My favorite similarity: "Horus as the black child = Jesus as the little black bambino". Beautiful!

The video delves into a lot of other similarities with other gods as well, like Krishna and Buddha.
 
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GDon said:
On the similarities between Horus and Jesus, see the classic "The Naked Truth" video (1993). You will be amazed at the number of similarities, and how close they are! In fact, Acharya S took some of her information from that video. On Horus/Jesus, see from about 34 mins 45 secs in:
https://youtu.be/goLpfrjxDa8?t=34m45s

My favorite similarity: "Horus as the black child = Jesus as the little black bambino". Beautiful!

The video delves into a lot of other similarities with other gods as well, like Krishna and Buddha.
Click to expand...
I've said before that I think it's better for people with an opinion to post justifications for that opinion, rather than link to videos by gurus who inspired Wooster cranks, and even expect us to sit through more than half an hour of the material. No. Please set down your arguments and we can consider them.

But if one of these arguments is that Horus was a black child and Jesus was a little black bambino, I don't think I'm going to be persuaded by your case.
 
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