Brexit: the referendum

[welshdean]

The 'Poll of Polls' (6/6/16)

From here

The following paragraph is describing the 'man on the street', not the nonsense in Westminster.
What worries me is that while the 'leavers' are spewing utter bollocks, the 'remainers' are looking upwards and rolling their eyes. There is, it seems, no real engagement. How does one counter the argument that 'if you don't vote to leave, they'll allow the Turks in and before you know it Mehmet will be touching your neighbour's 'front-bum'.' The British thing to do is tut, roll ones eyes and say your good-byes.

 

[3point14]

Well it depends really doesn't it?

No doubt a smaller workforce would have upwards pressure on wages in some areas but also no doubt that some jobs would disappear.

Unlikely that farmers are going to pay £20/hr for someone to pick strawberries if Lidl can just import Spanish strawberries on the cheap.

And it's unlikely that councils will pay lollipopmen, street sweepers and janitors £20/hr if their budgets are cut because the UK economy overall is in decline.

So you'd have to balance out the reduction in workforce with the reduction in required jobs.

Of course the good news is that we will always need fastfood workers, gym cleaners and shelfstackers so we could look forward to everything becoming a bit more expensive in the shops if wages rise.

Which will be great along with the higher taxes needed to maintain pensions and healthcare for an aging indigenous population from a declining pool of working age people.

It would probably drive people to drink if they could still afford to import wine.

Ah, the desperate can knock up an alcoholic tipple out of just about anything with sugar in it

 

[welshdean]

Plus all that time and effort that goes into developing those trade rules with the other country.

I'm not sure what business the EU is preventing us doing with the rest of the world in any case unless we're talking about:

• Building products so unsafe they cannot be sold in the EU
• Making workplaces less safe
• Paying people less (in which case is that less than the low-cost workers already allegedly flooding the job market"
• Not bothering with all that expensive environmental legislation, let's just poison the land, water and air
• Engaging in business practices outlawed by the EU and going beck to greasing the wheels with a bit of baksheesh

Back in the mid '90s, the BLMA were screaming that the BS2037 standard that was being replaced/superseded by EN131 would see a decline in the quality and reliability of ladders and steps (both platform and swingback). This was proved to be correct when a glut of foreign imports, reputedly adhering to said 'improved' standards, caused (by anecdote) many accidents and at least 2 deaths. The construction industry in the UK, without legislation, shunned these products and returned to the 'old' style BS2037 products from the traditional UK manufacturers (Lyte, Titan, Youngman, Ramsey). The standard eventually evolved into BSEN131 and now you'll see the crappy steps with ribbon side arms in Poundland and the good stuff on site.
No need for UK legislation, no need for EU Directives, just good old fashioned common sense.

 

[Information Analyst]

I'm surprised nobody has gone with the end of the booze cruise to France as a reason to remain yet.

I'm sure a hell of a lot of people who are convinced that the EU is costing them money make it back in cheap booze and fags brought back from holiday.

I would think that the best thing to do in a post-Brexit world would be to get a job with HMRC, as they're going to need a lot more customs officers...

 

[Roofgardener]

I'd be interested to know how much 'UK' industry would remain had we not had free access to the EU over the past few decades.

I doubt many of those car plants would be here for example.
........

Well, that IS possible. However, lets not forget that being in Europe doesn't necessarily protect car plants either.

Slovakia joined the EU in 2004. Two years later, Peugeot closed its production facility in Coventry, and opened a replacement.

In Slovakia.

If I was being mischievous, I could point out that car production halved between joining the EU in 1972, and the low of 2009. Therefore, the EU is bad for UK car production. Obviously, that is utter nonsense; there is no causal link between the two.

... ummm.... unless you live in Coventry, that is. But then... people knew the risks when they chose to be born there.

 

[Lothian]

I would think that the best thing to do in a post-Brexit world would be to get a job with HMRCUK Visas and Immigration or Immigration Enforcement or Border force as they're going to need a lot more customs officers...

Fixed.

I originally typed the Border Agency but wiki tells me that is outdated and Border controls have been split between UKVI or IE or BF.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories looked to reorganise it again and possibly outsource it all to a Chinese call centre.

 

[Lothian]

If I was being mischievous, I could point out that car production halved between joining the EU in 1972, and the low of 2009. Therefore, the EU is bad for UK car production. Obviously, that is utter nonsense; there is no causal link between the two.

I agree it is utter nonsense. Here is the sales data for UK car manufacturers.

53.1% (in 2014) of those exports went to the EU.

So a little shy of 4 in 10 cars made in Britain go to the EU.
Were we out of the EU there would be 10% tariff added to those cars. That I guess would hit sales.

Would the likes of Nissan have built a plant in the Uk given only 20% of the cars are sold here when well over double that are exported to Europe?

 

[Information Analyst]

Fixed.

I originally typed the Border Agency but wiki tells me that is outdated and Border controls have been split between UKVI or IE or BF.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories looked to reorganise it again and possibly outsource it all to a Chinese call centre.

It didn't need fixing. I was referring to the Customs officers who work at airports. They're the ones who check your bags for too much fags or booze (which is what we were talking about), not the ones who check your passport.

 

[Lothian]

It didn't need fixing. I was referring to the Customs officers who work at airports. They're the ones who check your bags for too much fags or booze (which is what we were talking about), not the ones who check your passport.

It did. They do not work for HMRC. They are now the Border force.

"The stated responsibilities of the Home Office's Border Force are the following:

To check the immigration status of people arriving in and departing the UK.
To search baggage, vehicles and cargo arriving in the UK for illicit goods or illegal immigrants."

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Well, that IS possible. However, lets not forget that being in Europe doesn't necessarily protect car plants either.

Slovakia joined the EU in 2004. Two years later, Peugeot closed its production facility in Coventry, and opened a replacement.

In Slovakia.

And if Slovakia wasn't in the EU they wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole. That's the point.

Car plants are pretty much there to serve Europe not their home countries. No easy export route, no car plant.

 

[Henri McPhee]

The kids of one of my sisters regard themselves as Europeans. Call me old-fashioned but I regard myself as a red-blooded Englishman. I suppose there could be a generational gap, as the media keeps mentioning. My father was always pro-Europe. Americans regard themselves as Americans rather than citizens of the world.

 

[Craig B]

The kids of one of my sisters regard themselves as Europeans. Call me old-fashioned but I regard myself as a red-blooded Englishman.

In that case I hope your real name is not the same as your pseudonym here. McPhee^WP

McPhee is a Scottish surname, a shorter version of McDuffie. The name is an Anglicisation of the Scottish Gaelic name Mac Dhuibhshithe (Descendant of the Dark Fairy). The name originated in Colonsay.​

See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Macfie

The forename "Henri" looks a bit suspicious for an Old Fashioned Red Blooded Englishman too. Are you perhaps a Europeanised Hebridean Gael in disguise? Unless you're a Dark Fairy, that is.

 

[Information Analyst]

It did. They do not work for HMRC. They are now the Border force.

"The stated responsibilities of the Home Office's Border Force are the following:

To check the immigration status of people arriving in and departing the UK.
To search baggage, vehicles and cargo arriving in the UK for illicit goods or illegal immigrants."

Fair enough.

 

[3point14]

Americans regard themselves as Americans rather than citizens of the world.

I think a lot of Americans regard themselves as 'Texans' or 'Californians' or some such above and before the citizens of the USA thing.

 

[SusanB-M1]

At 5:30 p.m. (PM programme on BBC Radio 4) today gave far too much time to the exiters I think. The last word was given to that Ghislaine stewart whose opinions I really do not like!

 

[jimbob]

The kids of one of my sisters regard themselves as Europeans. Call me old-fashioned but I regard myself as a red-blooded Englishman. I suppose there could be a generational gap, as the media keeps mentioning. My father was always pro-Europe. Americans regard themselves as Americans rather than citizens of the world.

You also seem to rather dislike facts, and if you aren't antisemitic, you have an unfortunate turn of phrase:

You may be right about that. I have never really understood the common agricultural policy, or the European Commission, or the culling of the Scottish fishing fleets so that Spanish factory ships could grab our cod or mackerel, or the way that our our budget policy, and decisions about our health service, are decided by the German finance minister, or the way rulings by our Supreme Court can be overturned in Europe.

The economic danger of all this is that a currency speculator like George Soros in America, who supports the fascist beasts in Ukraine, and Sultan Erdogan in Turkey, and our Jewish lordships, can cause a sudden loss of international confidence, which would result in a sale en masse of foreign held sterling.

 

[quadraginta]

In that case I hope your real name is not the same as your pseudonym here. McPhee^WP

McPhee is a Scottish surname, a shorter version of McDuffie. The name is an Anglicisation of the Scottish Gaelic name Mac Dhuibhshithe (Descendant of the Dark Fairy). The name originated in Colonsay.​

See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Macfie

The forename "Henri" looks a bit suspicious for an Old Fashioned Red Blooded Englishman too. Are you perhaps a Europeanised Hebridean Gael in disguise? Unless you're a Dark Fairy, that is.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Some of my best friends are Dark Fairies.

Well ... maybe not my best friends ...

... Okay. So maybe friend is a bit over-stated.

But there's still nothing wrong with that.

Much.

 

[CapelDodger]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Some of my best friends are Dark Fairies.

Well ... maybe not my best friends ...

... Okay. So maybe friend is a bit over-stated.

But there's still nothing wrong with that.

Much.

Some people one just don't want to get on the wrong side of, however unsavoury one finds them. It's an unavoidable fact of life.

Not that I find Dark Fairies unsavoury by any means. I for one welcome our eldritch overlords.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'm surprised nobody has gone with the end of the booze cruise to France as a reason to remain yet.

I'm sure a hell of a lot of people who are convinced that the EU is costing them money make it back in cheap booze and fags brought back from holiday.

I'm getting slightly nervous that Brexit seems to be edging it now as the few people I know who have told me they are voting have or will be voting to leave.

Funnily enough the end of the booze cruise is one of the main things that would tempt me to vote out (I sell fine wines and most of my best sellers aren't European anyway). However my belief in the motives behind 'Out' are enough for me to vote remain.

 

[welshdean]

Funnily enough the end of the booze cruise is one of the main things that would tempt me to vote out (I sell fine wines and most of my best sellers aren't European anyway). However my belief in the motives behind 'Out' are enough for me to vote remain.

European wines may not be the best sellers, but all the best cellars are filled with European wine.