God's purpose

[The Big Dog]

He also murdered his own son for no good reason except he said to. Sounds like a great dad!

We'll forgive the murder part and redirect your attention to the so we can live in everlasting glory with God, jesus, the ever Virgin Mary, anf the communion of saints as well as those who have left this life throughout the ages.

A man, a plan, a purpose. Pretty nifty!

 

[JayUtah]

We'll forgive the murder part and redirect your attention to the so we can live in everlasting glory with God, jesus, the ever Virgin Mary, anf the communion of saints as well as those who have left this life throughout the ages.

Why should we simply overlook the part that's embarrassing to your attribution of purpose? Why should we accept the proffered quid pro quo without an explanation for why one allegedly causes the other?

A man, a plan, a purpose. Pretty nifty!

Asked and answered: an incompetent or evil god, an unnecessarily convoluted plan, and an inscrutable purpose. Pretty illogical.

 

[Magrat]

For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. - 2 Corinthians 4:17

Throughout the bible, the focus is on after death. You suffer in this life, to achieve "glory" in "heaven". All that matters is that future reward.

The Buddha taught the exact opposite.

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

In Hinduism they teach suffering is punishment for something you did in a prior life.

Here an attempt is made to explain suffering: the outcaste of traditional Hinduism is held to deserve his fetched fate; it is a punishment for the wrongs he did in a previous life. (Walter Kauffman)

I know you asked about the Abrahamic god but here's my point: if there's one god, who spoke directly to his creation, why are there so many religions teaching the exact opposite messages?

It is not pointless to point this out. The point is, while you may take the teachings of different religions, including Christianity, under advisement, understand there is no absolute truth and no magic diety waiting to punish or reward you.

 

[Magrat]

We'll forgive the murder part and redirect your attention to the so we can live in everlasting glory with God, jesus, the ever Virgin Mary, anf the communion of saints as well as those who have left this life throughout the ages.

A man, a plan, a purpose. Pretty nifty!

How could the senseless murder of a schizophrenic 2000 years ago possibly impact my life today? Explain the mechanism by which murdering his own son does anything to my "sins".

 

[Cosmic Yak]

We'll forgive the murder part and redirect your attention to the so we can live in everlasting glory with God, jesus, the ever Virgin Mary, anf the communion of saints as well as those who have left this life throughout the ages.
A man, a plan, a purpose. Pretty nifty!

Not so. It's only 144,000, if you believe the Jehovah's Witnesses, or more because mutter....mumble...reasons... if you don't. Plus any man who had an unfortunate accident in the nether regions is also excluded from the club. Also anyone who did not come through Jesus (a statement more than open to differing interpretations ), no matter how good, is kept out. And the unbaptised babies. Those evil scum clearly cannot be permitted to approach the ever-loving god in the story.
16.5: Are you familiar with Christian belief at all?

 

[The Big Dog]

But the problem is that you're not exploring anything. You're just throwing random Christian quotations out there and ignoring all responses. You were worried about this turning into yet another God-doesn't-exist thread. You've turned it into yet another witness-to-the-atheists thread. How shameful.

"How shameful."

'k.

 

[Marasmusine]

God's purpose is to ultimately fill a very large volume with nothing but photons and orbiting pairs of electrons and positrons.

 

[The Big Dog]

How could the senseless murder of a schizophrenic 2000 years ago possibly impact my life today? Explain the mechanism by which murdering his own son does anything to my "sins".

The Heidelberg catechism teaches us that “First, by his resurrection he has overcome death, so that he might make us share in the righteousness he won for us by his death. Second, by his power we too are already now resurrected to a new life. Third, Christ’s resurrection is a guarantee of our glorious resurrection.”

The word schizophrenia was coined by the Swiss psychiatrist and eugenicist Eugen Bleuler in 1908. Perhaps you are looking for another word?

 

[Magrat]

Not so. It's only 144,000, if you believe the Jehovah's Witnesses, or more because mutter....mumble...reasons... if you don't. Plus any man who had an unfortunate accident in the nether regions is also excluded from the club. Also anyone who did not come through Jesus (a statement more than open to differing interpretations ), no matter how good, is kept out. And the unbaptised babies. Those evil scum clearly cannot be permitted to approach the ever-loving god in the story.
16.5: Are you familiar with Christian belief at all?

Here's a helpful chart comparing the beliefs of different christian denominations.

As you can see, some of them believe people are predestined for heaven (meaning everyone else is **********), some believe you earn salvation, some believe you are saved only though faith...

The most notible thing is that these are all based on the same book.

 

[The Big Dog]

Not so. It's only 144,000, if you believe the Jehovah's Witnesses, or more because mutter....mumble...reasons... if you don't. Plus any man who had an unfortunate accident in the nether regions is also excluded from the club. Also anyone who did not come through Jesus (a statement more than open to differing interpretations ), no matter how good, is kept out. And the unbaptised babies. Those evil scum clearly cannot be permitted to approach the ever-loving god in the story.
16.5: Are you familiar with Christian belief at all?

Certainly " All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

It does appear that you could use a refresher

 

[JayUtah]

The Heidelberg catechism teaches us...

A pile of bare assertions. Simply repeating the claims doesn't explain why they should be considered rational statements.

The word schizophrenia was coined by the Swiss psychiatrist and eugenicist Eugen Bleuler in 1908. Perhaps you are looking for another word?

It can nevertheless be applied in 2016 to people who lived before 1908. I would have thought this was obvious.

 

[JayUtah]

"How shameful."

Indeed, I have accused you of simply using this thread as a pulpit from which to preach the Christian religion. I have given evidence in support of that accusation. Do you have an answer? Or are you just going to continue your pointless spew unabated?

 

[Magrat]

Certainly " All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

It does appear that you could use a refresher

Purgatory is not biblical. Catholics made that up.

 

[JayUtah]

"...so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

Ah, the terms and conditions. Whereas yesterday you told us it was simply up to god whether he gave you happiness or not.

 

[Magrat]

Indeed, I have accused you of simply using this thread as a pulpit from which to preach the Christian religion. I have given evidence in support of that accusation. Do you have an answer? Or are you just going to continue your pointless spew unabated?

He's preaching catholicism, BTW. There's a lot of Christians who would disagree with him.

 

[JayUtah]

He's preaching catholicism, BTW. There's a lot of Christians who would disagree with him.

Indeed, not the least of which reasons would be the untoward use of Dante's poetry as if it were somehow doctrine. I did offer the wisdom of the Malleus malificarum, another of the Catholic church's great pearls of wisdom.

What role do witches play in god's plan, 16.5?

 

[The Big Dog]

Purgatory is not biblical. Catholics made that up.

There are certainly some Fundamentalist Baptists, for example, who certainly contend that, certainly.

 

[JayUtah]

There are certainly some Fundamentalist Baptists, for example, who certainly contend that, certainly.

"For example?" Can you name a non-Catholic sect of Abrahamism that does? Do you dispute that the notion of Purgatory comes not from accepted canon but in fact from a poem? Earlier, when asked the source of these attributions of purpose to god, you said, "[From] God." Now it seems you've expanded those sources to include ... whatever.

 

[Giordano]

But the problem is that you're not exploring anything. You're just throwing random Christian quotations out there and ignoring all responses. You were worried about this turning into yet another God-doesn't-exist thread. You've turned it into yet another witness-to-the-atheists thread. How shameful.

Not shameful- just boring.

My first guess is that this is a sort-of "You want pointless atheist posts? I'll show you pointless posts!" kind of thing (but then I grew up in New York City so I might be unduly sensitive).

I am quite willing to take my own prior suggestion- we are not limited by bandwidth here and we don't need to address any posts that are boring to us.

Instead, I will ask others here a question that I do find somewhat intriguing (and keeps with the OP's desire to focus this thread on Abrahamic religions): what is God's purpose for us in Judaism? I was once a Jew and frankly I myself am not clear on this. There is no well defined heaven or hell in Judaism, and it is less than clear that the OT God wants to save you. It is more (as I see it) that God has taken a fancy to one group of people in the OT, perhaps as pets (as Lenny Bruce once indicated- looking at the history of the Jews that was not a real positive). The OT God clearly wants his pets to behave correctly and will punish them (real time) if they are bad. And sometimes, after eons, He might come down and help them (or He used to). But what does He want of Jews and/or the rest of humanity? Just company and respect?

Any ideas?

Oh- and I think I will create a separate thread for non-Abrahamic religions with the same type of question.

 

[The Big Dog]

Instead, I will ask others here a question that I do find somewhat intriguing (and keeps with the OP's desire to focus this thread on Abrahamic religions): what is God's purpose for us in Judaism? I was once a Jew and frankly I myself am not clear on this. There is no well defined heaven or hell in Judaism, and it is less than clear that the OT God wants to save you. It is more (as I see it) that God has taken a fancy to one group of people in the OT, perhaps as pets (as Lenny Bruce once indicated- looking at the history of the Jews that was not a real positive). The OT God clearly wants his pets to behave correctly and will punish them (real time) if they are bad. And sometimes, after eons, He might come down and help them (or He used to). But what does He want of Jews and/or the rest of humanity? Just company and respect?

Oh Gosh! I was hoping that someone was going to do this. I had obviously been covering The Christian theology involving God's Purpose in some detail, and was hopeful that someone well versed in Jewish theology would join the discussion.

eta: Might as well clean up a couple of more egregious misrepresentations in the meantime. The claim that Purgatory was "invented" by Dante in a poem is laughable. Even the most ardent anti-Papists claim that the concept of Purgatory was well established by the 6th Century. Malleus malificarum was CONDEMNED by the Catholic Church within three years of its publication.

The more you know!