God's purpose

[JayUtah]

Say, lets take a look at some other views...

Will you be paying attention to any views by people alive now, posting here? Or is this thread just now your own personal pulpit?

St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church.

I'm familiar with Tom. Did he talk to god? Is his speculation regarding the Abrahamic god's intent and purposes any more authoritative or valid than mine?

Thomas identified the goal of human existence as union and eternal fellowship with God.

What were his sources for that identification? What tests or experiments did he perform to test that identification? I've lived quite a number of decades and I haven't seemed to need any sort of relationship with god to be happy, prosperous and healthy. My dog has done more to affect my well-being than god.

This goal is achieved through the beatific vision, in which a person experiences perfect, unending happiness by seeing the essence of God.

That would interest me for about 30 seconds. What about the rest of eternity?

The vision occurs after death as a gift from God...

I don't want that. Can I substitute something that I really want?

...to those who in life experienced salvation and redemption through Christ.

That sounds ominous. Are there those who don't get that?

Do you see why the real world has such a problem with the sticky-sweet platitudes of unthinking theists who merely regurgitate their canon without expending a single conscious thought about what it means? I'm asking questions that you obviously can't answer. I marvel that you haven't asked them yourself.

 

[JayUtah]

Rule 12, obviously

No, it's not obvious.

She made some cogent arguments that call into question your rosy view of god and his purpose. In any case I've made arguments that ask you to reconcile your quotations with her plight. If your model of god's purpose can't explain real-world situations like hers, then what assurance can you give that you know god's purpose? How are they not then platitudes?

Let's be honest. I think you don't care about her. Her account doesn't fit your happy little model, so for you it simply doesn't exist. And as you've done incessantly over the past few days, you'll turn to any peripheral excuse to avoid having to answer for her data. You lack the courage of your convictions. And according to your tradition, your god will -- in the end -- say he never knew you.

Consider RogueKitten an objective data point. Now reconcile that data with your claims. That's a purely argumentational request, having nothing to do with ad hominem factors.

 

[The Big Dog]

Let us further explore God's purpose by a more recent statement:

We were made to be God’s children, it is in our DNA. But this filial relationship was ruined and required the sacrifice of God’s only-begotten Son in order to be restored. From the immense gift of love Which is Jesus’ death on the cross, the Holy Spirit Has Been poured out upon humanity like a vast torrent of grace. Those who by faith are immersed into this mystery of regeneration are reborn to the fullness of filial life.

Pope Francis

 

[JayUtah]

We were made to be God’s children, it is in our DNA.

God has DNA? Can we have a sample?

But this filial relationship was ruined...

And somehow an omnipotent god couldn't fix it. God required (your words) outside help. I'm still waiting for a rationale behind all this. God created humankind to be eternally happy, but then somehow lost control. And somehow this is all fixed by having the Romans nail a guy to a cross who claimed to be his son. Not only does that make no sense, it doesn't inspire a lot of faith in this screw-up god.

Those who by faith are immersed into this mystery of regeneration...

Mystery? So you don't know how this whole thing works?

 

[The Big Dog]

Now, lets take a gander at what the Orthodox Churches say about God's purpose:

We are brought into God’s intimate inner circle to know the mystery of His will, being given wisdom and enlightenment. We have grace lavished upon us and are His body, His fullness. The whole purpose of God’s mystery is that all things will be united in Christ and that He will be all in all. Does this not describe partaking of the divine nature, becoming by grace what God is by nature?

It seems pretty clear that the answer is YES!

 

[The Big Dog]

Baptists:

God the Father

God as Father reigns with providential care over His universe, His creatures, and the flow of the stream of human history according to the purposes of His grace. …God is Father in truth to those who become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[The Big Dog]

Well, God works in mysterious ways indeed as my wi-fi is acting up.

I've given you a lot to reflect on, as such, I wish you a blessed night!

 

[JayUtah]

Now, lets take a gander at what the Orthodox Churches say about God's purpose:

You have absolutely no interest whatsoever in what anyone but you has to say, do you? Thankfully I know other Christians who do not approach their life and faith with such arrogance.

You describe god's will as a mystery, yet earlier today you were all about requiring objective knowledge of the facts before forming a subjective belief about it. A few days ago you assured us it was a straightforward exercise to discover god's purpose by examining various religious texts. It's either plain or it's a mystery; it can't be both.

United in Christ, all in all? What does that mean? What is the day-to-day of that sort of regime? You tell us we're going to be eternally happy, and you suggest -- according to Aquinas -- that this involves staring at god for all time.

Let's try a little less fervor and a bit more neurons, please.

 

[JayUtah]

I've given you a lot to reflect on...

No, you've simply recited a bunch of empty platitudes and ignored any and all attempts to elicit from you anything beyond a mindless regurgitation. You display no knowledge, no wisdom, no charity, and no conscience. Why have you thought you were qualified in any way to referee this thread?

 

[PartSkeptic]

This thread has moved ahead quickly. I was trying to catch up when this response to me caught my eye.

The argument of "free will" is very amusing to me (and I realize that you are shading this away from a strict Fire and
Brimstone fundamentalist discussion).

Free will. God allows the laws of physics are allowed to act nearly all the of the time. When we lived in a Newtonian Universe, mankind was seen as machines, and everything could be plotted/predicted. That changed with quantum physics.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-physics-free-will/

1. The argument reeks of pitiful desperation to try to explain why an all powerful and good God would create evil in this word.
(snip)

I gave a reason why this is not so in my first post. The Ultimate Creator is neither good nor evil. It is morally indifferent. It created God and Satan. You reject my "theory" as having no basis in fact. I have experiences which support nearly all of my "story". They are rejected as "anecdotes". Your "free will" gives you that choice.

The more sophisticated (True Christian?) theologians will argue that Hell is not a place of suffering, it is just a place removed from God- in essence if you reject Him, (snip)

They got it part right. The good souls benefit from their having goodness create "feelings" such as bliss, freedom from pain fear and death, no worries about money or taxes. The evil souls have their nastiness turned inward and it gets amplified. There is a continuum or such states. It is not binary. There is judgment of a sort.

Finally the argument that God doesn't need us to bow down and worship Him. That is not how the Ten Commandments, let alone the remainder of the Bible, read to me.

Where in the Ten Commandments do you see bowing and worshiping? I see "I am your God", "no other gods", "not take my name in vain."

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Something to ponder. What was God's purpose for creating the world, universe, and man?

Over 2000 years ago, God sent Jesus Christ his only begotten son to die for us so that we all may enjoy everlasting life.

Now that is a God with a purpose and a plan!

And that was indeed the revelation of God's plan as mentioned in 2 Timothy chapter 1 verse 9 for it was Jesus who illuminated the path and abolished death for all.

Chapter 1, Verse 10.

Any person can drop a stone around the globe and ponder gravity, and experiments will all give the same results everywhere. A universal phenomenon we call a law because we never see it broken. It needs no priests to enforce its workings. The laws written in stone in the Abrahamic tradition are not the same as those in other places. One cannot trust the laws to hold on their own, let alone be the same around the globe. Religions are parochial local opinions that are not based on anything but myth, which is precisely why there are no universals. Claims to them, yes, but none. However, these laws do need priests to enforce their workings, because they actually are not laws at all.

If your God is universal, why is He unable to pull His own weight, just like gravity? And what of the horrible hubris of those who act in His name as if he could? Religion was humankind's first approach to making sense of the world and finding guidance to action. There are now far better approaches, including how to act ethically without making wild claims.

 

[MikeG]

......I've given you a lot to reflect on......

I am sure we are all so grateful that you deemed us worthy of your insight and wisdom.

Have you ever reflected on anything that any of us have said to you? No, I thought not.

 

[Thor 2]

Let us further explore God's purpose by a more recent statement:

We were made to be God’s children, it is in our DNA. But this filial relationship was ruined and required the sacrifice of God’s only-begotten Son in order to be restored. From the immense gift of love Which is Jesus’ death on the cross, the Holy Spirit Has Been poured out upon humanity like a vast torrent of grace. Those who by faith are immersed into this mystery of regeneration are reborn to the fullness of filial life.

Pope Francis

This is getting beyond frustrating 16.5.

What is there in this papal quote that gives any indication of purpose?

My question is why did god make the universe and us. You can't just talk about what happened after we came on the scene, as if your god just came along then and decided to help us.

 

[jimbob]

I thought your story was great RogueKitten and barely distinguishable from what I read in my King James Bible.

Oh, I hope nobody took my comments as *criticism*. I was just saying that for me,they were improved by imagining them in that voice. I think that it was the justified snark that I "heard"

 

[Thor 2]

Oh, I hope nobody took my comments as *criticism*. I was just saying that for me,they were improved by imagining them in that voice. I think that it was the justified snark that I "heard"

OK jimbob I hope RogueKitten took it that way.

 

[The Big Dog]

This is getting beyond frustrating 16.5.

What is there in this papal quote that gives any indication of purpose?

My question is why did god make the universe and us. You can't just talk about what happened after we came on the scene, as if your god just came along then and decided to help us.

We were made to be God’s children, it is in our DNA.....Those who by faith are immersed into this mystery of regeneration are reborn to the fullness of filial life.

You specifically asked what is God's purpose for us. As for the Universe? Well we can certainly explore that in further detail today.

In the meantime, lets all take some time to refamiliarize ourselves with Aquinas' Summa Theologia. Say, maybe we can tackle that gravity question too if there is time.

 

[JayUtah]

You specifically asked what is God's purpose for us. As for the Universe? Well we can certainly explore that in further detail today.

But the problem is that you're not exploring anything. You're just throwing random Christian quotations out there and ignoring all responses. You were worried about this turning into yet another God-doesn't-exist thread. You've turned it into yet another witness-to-the-atheists thread. How shameful.

 

[Magrat]

Over 2000 years ago, God sent Jesus Christ his only begotten son to die for us so that we all may enjoy everlasting life.

Now that is a God with a purpose and a plan!

And that was indeed the revelation of God's plan as mentioned in 2 Timothy chapter 1 verse 9 for it was Jesus who illuminated the path and abolished death for all.

Chapter 1, Verse 10.

He also murdered his own son for no good reason except he said to. Sounds like a great dad!

 

[Magrat]

Oh, I hope nobody took my comments as *criticism*. I was just saying that for me,they were improved by imagining them in that voice. I think that it was the justified snark that I "heard"

No way hon, you're funny! No worries!

 

[JayUtah]

He also murdered his own son for no good reason except he said to. Sounds like a great dad!

Indeed. Would anyone mind if I used Malleus malifcarum as a source for Christian wisdom and thought? I don't see why Aquinas should get all the attention.