I found the missing Jolt.

[Spanx]

If the east side interior collapse was actually started by column 79 buckling, the east side exterior would have been extremely deformed when the east side interior went down. It is not deformed in video. The exterior collapse would have somewhat followed the alleged interior collapse with an east to west exterior progressive collapse.

It is not even remotely plausible that the east side interior came down with the east side exterior withstanding it without serious deformation only to fail later with the west side exterior after the west side interior came down.

And what am I seeing in GlennB's photo above in post 154?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

And what am I seeing in GlennB's photo above in post 154?

That photo is showing the roll to the south at the end of the collapse, which has nothing to do with and is not indicative of what I am talking about.

There is no deformation of the exterior at the beginning of the exterior collapse when the NIST report claims the entire east side interior had come down several seconds before to cause the east penthouse collapse. How can that be?

 

[Spanx]

That photo is showing the roll to the south at the end of the collapse, which has nothing to do with and is not indicative of what I am talking about.

There is no deformation of the exterior at the beginning of the exterior collapse when the NIST report claims the entire east side interior had come down several seconds before to cause the east penthouse collapse. How can that be?

And what did the north side look like, was there any deformation?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

And what did the north side look like, was there any deformation?

Of course, there is a horizontal kink in the north face but that is not indicative of a full east side interior collapse. Where is the east side exterior deformation? Why didn't the east side exterior columns start to buckle when they lost all lateral support?

 

[Spanx]

Of course, there is a horizontal kink in the north face but that is not indicative of a full east side interior collapse. Where is the east side exterior deformation? Why didn't the east side exterior columns start to buckle when they lost lateral support?

Would that be a symmetrical horizontal kink in the north face which is a signature of CD ?

Can you find some footage of lower area of wt7 collapse.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Would that be a symmetrical horizontal kink in the north face which is a signature of CD ?

Can you find some footage of lower area of wt7 collapse.

I do not know of any footage of the lower area of the wtc 7 collapse. This is where the entire core would have been pulled to cause the demolition and footage would show extreme exterior deformation there on each face of the building if it exists. Do you know of any?

 

[Spanx]

I do not know of any footage of the lower area of the wtc 7 collapse. This is where the entire core would have been pulled to cause the demolition and footage would show extreme exterior deformation there on each face of the building if it exists. Do you know of any?

No I don't have any footage of the lower section of wt7 during collapse.

This is where you would find evidence of CD. This is also why it makes you look like you are trying to perform a magic trick by focusing the furthest point from where you should be looking.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

No I don't have any footage of the lower section of wt7 during collapse.

This is where you would find evidence of CD. This is also why it makes you look like you are trying to perform a magic trick by focusing the furthest point from where you should be looking.

If the footage isn't available how can one look there?

It isn't magic when you look at what is available and are able to deduce scientifically what had to happen where you have no footage.

It would be kind of like footage being available of you falling rapidly only showing your upper torso. It wouldn't be magic to surmise that your legs fell out from under you somehow and that it could not be done one leg at a time.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

If the footage isn't available how can one look there?

It isn't magic when you look at what is available and are able to deduce scientifically what had to happen where you have no footage.

It would be kind of like footage being available of you falling rapidly only showing your upper torso. It wouldn't be magic to surmise that your legs fell out from under you somehow and that it could not be done one leg at a time.

Tony the burden of proof is on you, to prove your theories you have to prove that curtain
wall connections were too strong to allow separation of the curtain wall facade, from the rest
of the steel.
I know that's not possible for you to do, so all you have left is conjecture about looks like.

That has gotten you no where in how many years?

 

[Spanx]

If the footage isn't available how can one look there?

It isn't magic when you look at what is available and are able to deduce scientifically what had to happen where you have no footage.

It would be kind of like footage being available of you falling rapidly only showing your upper torso. It wouldn't be magic to surmise that your legs fell out from under you somehow and that it could not be done one leg at a time.

Let's change the analogy a bit, lets say you are sitting on a chair which we know is on fire and we can't see it, you then collapse, do we conclude it was explosives that made you collapse.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Let's change the analogy a bit, lets say you are sitting on a chair which we know is on fire and we can't see it, you then collapse, do we conclude it was explosives that made you collapse.

How about I am sitting on the 20 foot long bed of a flat bed truck which has a fire in its engine compartment and the entire truck collapses evenly with me on the bed. That is probably a better analogy, and in that case I certainly would not insist the fire was the cause of the even collapse and would have to have a lot better case than NIST made to even consider the fire as the proximate cause.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

How about I am sitting on a truck bed which has a fire in its engine compartment and the entire truck collapses evenly with me on the bed. That is probably a better analogy, and in that case I certainly would not insist the fire was the cause of the even collapse and would have to have a lot better case than NIST made to even consider the fire as the proximate cause.

That has occurred on a mack semi that rolled into a brush pile accidentally, the spring got hot and broke.
The fire has to be below what is being heated, the logger left the air brake lock on forgot to chock the truck and the air leaked of, the manual brake lock, was non functional.

I pulled the truck out of the fire myself.

Can you give us another good real life example?

 

[GlennB]

We're still left with at least one very substantial explosive device per column per storey. I make that 192, and timed to explode almost simultaneously. That's one **** of a blast. A blast that nobody noticed.

(I reached my monthly NWO paid shill quota about May 18th. This is pro bono work )

 

[jaydeehess]

Nice observation, JD.
Exactly to the point.
(Pun intended.)
__

Thanks tfk. Yours is a slightly different point than I was making but also quite apropos. I notice that TSz completely ignored both of us.

First my point. Steel columns are not as stiff as masonry. PERIOD. Thus a masonry on masonry impact will result is a greater observed 'jolt' than steel column on steel column since the steel can react elastically more than the masonry.

Tony, in concrete/masonry building construction, when the Verinage technique is used, and a mid-level set of columns are mechanically buckled ...

... when the floor above the hydraulic rams crashes down onto the floor below the rams, what percentage of the two floors comes in (approximately) simultaneous contact? 95%? 98%? 99%?

In the towers, what percent of the floor area of the impacting floors was taken up by the columns? 1%? 2%? 3%?

Let's put this into human terms, Tony.

In a fall, a judo expert brings himself to a rapid stop without injury by landing flat (lots of surface area) and slapping the mat. He/she achieves a sudden reduction in velocity.

A person thrown onto an array of very sharp punji sticks. Can that poor soul do the same thing, Tony?
Will this person's deceleration be as large as the judo expert's?

"Why does it matter, Tony?"
__

And your jolt STILL depends on the ends of the upper columns landing squarely on the top of lower columns ... that are no longer there.

Fantasies, Tony. You've got nothing but fantasies.

When is Gage going to take this fiasco to a Structural Engineering conference, rather than preying on defenseless architects, Tony?

Your point, being salient, was ignored by TSz as well. In Verinage demolitions in masonry buildings, the supporting structural members provide much greater contact surface. One simply cannot build a concrete column with the slenderness of a steel column.

However, Tony also , as was pointed out, still assumes column on column axial contact. Even if columns do make contact but are offset by 50% of their width, the steel will be deflected and in subsequent floors 'never the twain shall meet' again (to badly invoke the Bard)

I also asked Tony if there are any videos of Verinage being used on a steel column structure since he stated that in all structures, steel or concrete, that Verinage results in a massive jolt. Still seeing no reply to that request.

 

[jaydeehess]

.

However, Tony also , as was pointed out, still assumes column on column axial contact. Even if columns do make contact but are offset by 50% of their width, the steel will be deflected and in subsequent floors 'never the twain shall meet' again (to badly invoke the Bard)

Since I have been called on editing posts a bit much I'll add to this in a separate post.
One notes, as illustration, that hitting a nail square on the head results in the nail driving into the wood straight in. Hit slightly off axial, and the nail drives in at an angle. Hit far enough off center and the nail buckles and exits the work surface laterally at high speed.

 

[Richard the G]

That photo is showing the roll to the south at the end of the collapse, which has nothing to do with and is not indicative of what I am talking about.

There is no deformation of the exterior at the beginning of the exterior collapse when the NIST report claims the entire east side interior had come down several seconds before to cause the east penthouse collapse. How can that be?

Tony

I am not sure if this is a deliberate lie or just an accidental mistake.

The photo cannot be at the end of the collapse. If you added 10-15 storeys to the height it would be back at its original height. Ref Nist 5.23 is shot from a similar angle

 

[jaydeehess]

If the east side interior collapse was actually started by column 79 buckling, the east side exterior would have been extremely deformed when the east side interior went down. It is not deformed in video. The exterior collapse would have somewhat followed the alleged interior collapse with an east to west exterior progressive collapse.
It is not even remotely plausible that the east side interior came down with the east side exterior withstanding it without serious deformation only to fail later with the west side exterior after the west side interior came down.

'scuse me?
BEFORE the global vertical movement begins, there is a failure of the exterior column(s) in line with col 79. This causes a vertical running kink in the north face (aka "DEFORMATION") that has every single floor visible in the video, to be moving downwards along the line of that kink. Again, this occurs BEFORE the rest of the exterior begins coming down. How do we know it happens before the rest of the exterior begins moving down? BECAUSE the roofline is no longer horizontal when the east and west exteriors begin moving.

Quite obviously the interior was coming apart starting at the area of col 79 (otherwise we would not have seen EVERY floor tilting towards the kink). The east and west exteriors held during this portion of the collapse sequence. That's just fact, it happened, its in the video evidence.

One notes also that in order for all floors to be tilting into the kink, the exterior columns are also failing on the north face, in sequence outwards from the line of the kink, AGAIN, this is happening BEFORE the east and west exteriors begin moving downwards.

 

[Oystein]

So where is that math that analyzes the alleged "symmetry"?
Where indeed is the definition that separates "symmetrical" collapses from "asymmetrical" ones?
You have neither, right? <- Straight and honest answer, please!

I added a little something in blue and italics.

Surely, when you design for rotational balance, you define and quantify precisely the limits of acceptable imbalance.
A similar chore has not been undertaken by you nor by any other Truther wrt the alleged "symmetry" of any of the WTC collapses. You know this is true. Do not lie in your next reply (a feeble wish, I admit - I have little doubt that you will either evade the question I asked above, or lie to me, or both, in your very next post)!

As expected, Tony ignored a post which asked him to give a "Straight and honest answer".

We all know, and he knows, and he knows we all know that he knows, that he has no "math" to "prove" symmetry in any significant and useful sense of the word, just bare assertion.

 

[jaydeehess]

How about I am sitting on the 20 foot long bed of a flat bed truck which has a fire in its engine compartment and the entire truck collapses evenly with me on the bed. That is probably a better analogy, and in that case I certainly would not insist the fire was the cause of the even collapse and would have to have a lot better case than NIST made to even consider the fire as the proximate cause.

Except that simply did not happen in WTC7.
The exterior column collapse starts at the line of the kink. The roofline, and every single floor, all tilt down towards that kink. THEN the rest of the building fails.

Your flat bed analogy should have the truck bed tilting before it falls.


If you then try to say, "but but but, the rear suspension holds" then you are deliberately extending a structural difference in your analogy waaaay too much.

 

[jaydeehess]

This whole line that all the exterior columns had to be blown at once is ridiculous in light of the factual video.

The kink forms first, that is to say before global vertical movement. ALL north side floors tilt. For THAT to happen the exterior columns of the north face must all be failing sequentially from the kink outwards, which MUST be occurring BEFORE the east and west walls fail and the entire building is moving vertically downwards. At that point a significant number of exterior columns of the north face have already buckled or begun to buckle. In addition, the SW corner is long gone.

Just how is it necessary then for exterior columns to be explosively removed, and which ones of those not already compromised?