Brexit: the referendum

uke2se said:
A nation is a distinct cultural entity? That's not in any definition of 'nation' that I've heard.
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And it sure as hell doesn't apply to the UK even if it was some sort of definition of "nation".
 
The Don said:
I'm very biased. The vast majority of my company's business comes from the E.U. and within the E.U. Germany. I have been told in no uncertain terms that post-Brexit I will be on the outside competing with the Indians on price rather than being on the inside competing with the Germans on quality.

Post-Brexit I fully expect to have to lay off more than 50% of staff and there's a real danger that we'll be out of business. We could try to do business in the U.S. but the rates are nothing like as good and the cost of setting up to do business over there has proved to be prohibitive in the past. India would be closed to us, China is indifferent, the major market for us is the E.U.

I suspect that there are a lot of small to medium sized businesses like mine.
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I have to say that it's arguments like this that have confirmed my intention to vote to remain in the EU.
 
Ambrosia said:
They'd only be important to companies exporting to those trading partners.

If the rules on widgets were less strict in the UK it could help small businesses start up here making widgets and selling to only the UK, before growing large enough to then make widgets that met stricter standards that they could also export.
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So a crap product for the domestic market, a better one for export?* I would think the reality would be that unless the manufacturer is utterly stupid, they would be working to EU standards from the get-go, even if they thought exporting was a long way off.

* ETA: I see that Lothian managed to say the same thing in far wittier form.
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I think this point just hugely exaggerates the difference between the UK system and EU system. You elect your MP. You elect your MEP. Stuff happens that is outside your control. You get laws you agree with or don't and are stuck with them.

We in Scotland are repeatedly told that its fair that we get a government we didn't vote for.
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What's good enough for Scotland isn't good enough for the UK.
 
Information Analyst said:
So a crap product for the domestic market, a better one for export?
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One example of poor regulations affected British (and European) cars exported to the USA: they were required to have bigger bumpers (fenders) than the ones sold at home.

When these cars are restored, Americans nearly always replace their bigger/better/safer bumpers with our crappy ones.
 
ceptimus said:
One example of poor regulations affected British (and European) cars exported to the USA: they were required to have bigger bumpers (fenders) than the ones sold at home.

When these cars are restored, Americans nearly always replace their bigger/better/safer bumpers with our crappy ones.
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Our 'crappy' ones aren't though. In the case of the MGB for example to comply with US regulations on headlamp height all they did was raise the suspension with spacers and longer springs ruining the ride, handling and looks rather than spending any money on proper engineering. Rubber wrap round bumpers were substituted for the chrome but to my eye they look better than the chrome ones anyway. Chrome bumpers aren't any more 'crappy' than the rubber.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Our 'crappy' ones aren't though. In the case of the MGB for example to comply with US regulations on headlamp height all they did was raise the suspension with spacers and longer springs ruining the ride, handling and looks rather than spending any money on proper engineering. Rubber wrap round bumpers were substituted for the chrome but to my eye they look better than the chrome ones anyway. Chrome bumpers aren't any more 'crappy' than the rubber.
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I don't have a problem with rubber bumpered MGs but I would say that. I rectified the poor engineering by having "proper" suspension installed...
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Unless you consider the concept of the "Nation" - as a distinct cultural entity - to be defunct or undesirable, then the UK - whilst democratic - is still anethama to British society, in that it attempts to impose UK-wide "one size fits all" legislation.

Do you agree with that too?
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To an extent, yes !
I'm sure that the Scots - who didn't vote for any Conservative MP's (or hardly any), and yet are ruled by a Conservative Government at Westminster - might agree as well.

This is a flaw with representative democracy. The larger the constituency, the greater is the number of "disenfrachised" people.

There is no easy benchmark of how big it should be. In my opinion, a 28-member-state EU is too big. Others may disagree.
 
There was a legal case recently of a man that caused permanent paralysis below the waste for two little girls by dangerous driving in a road rage incident where he tail-gated another woman.

The point is it turns out that judges can no longer give a sentence of more than five years for causing death or injury by dangerous driving. I was wondering to myself if this was just another daft ruling by the European Court of Justice.

At least with Brexit it would bring back English Justice, even if the theory of the perfection of English Justice is humbug.
 
Henri McPhee said:
There was a legal case recently of a man that caused permanent paralysis below the waste for two little girls by dangerous driving in a road rage incident where he tail-gated another woman.

The point is it turns out that judges can no longer give a sentence of more than five years for causing death or injury by dangerous driving. I was wondering to myself if this was just another daft ruling by the European Court of Justice.

At least with Brexit it would bring back English Justice, even if the theory of the perfection of English Justice is humbug.
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No absolutely nothing to do with the ECJ, but nice try. I for one am still optimistic that you can break your accuracy duck soon.
 
Indeed, Lothian, and causing death by dangerous driving carries a maximum fourteen year sentence.

I see no reason why the offence shouldn't be causing death or injury through dangerous driving, with the fourteen year maximum sentence, but at the moment they are separate.
 
CapelDodger said:
Well, 88% in agreement, but pretty shocking in itself.

Sensible people saying "Let's be sensible".

And from the Leave side, Turks. I rather think they jumped the shark with that one.
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It's now quite apparent that the referendum is really a party political matter for the conservatives.
 
Interesting hypothesis, Darat.

But here's a thought... the Conservatives... as the party of government.. are in the media spotlight.

I wonder what the divisions within the Labour party are regarding the EU ? I suspect that they are being swept under the carpet in order to present a unified front against the Conservatives ?
 
I think we should stay, or go, depending on what Jacqui Smith's husband says. After all we've already paid for his extensive euro-research.
I'm thinking Sweden.
And blonde!
 
Darat said:
It's now quite apparent that the referendum is really a party political matter for the conservatives.
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And increasingly savage, with open calls for Cameron to quit and talk of a no-confidence vote.

The Guardian

My wager on the next general election being in 2016 doesn't look so far-fetched after all.
 
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