Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Diocletus]

I think you are likely right - such hearings that do take place, as you pointed out elsewhere, are not hearings as most people understand them.

I will try to get some definitive clarification of these procedural matters.

I think it just means that the case will be heard on the merits as opposed to procedurally dismissed.

 

[Diocletus]

Ground Report has censored my comment regarding the ECHR HIV breach claim so I'll issue it here:

No, they did not 'ask Knox to provide a list of sexual contacts'; that is a complete myth. See Amanda Knox' diary for yourself in which she herself states it was HER decision to list her partners. Women in prison are often highly promiscuous and randomly allocated doctors are honestly not the slightest bit interested in whom they sleep with. Most HIV in prisons come from needle sharing, and the aim is to provide HIV support to those living with HIV, not pry into their sex lives.

See page 1193 of Knox' own diary wherein she confirms the doctor explained the result was probably a false positive (they happen quite often!) and not to worry about it.

It is a complete lie "a prison officer told her she had AIDS and demanded she list all her sex partners and then leaked the results". I hope ECHR pick up on this self-serving false claim.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...etter-drafts-original-Italian-translation.pdf

The crux of the claim is that the authorities disclosed her personal medical and sexual information. Not much doubt that that's true, is there?

 

[LondonJohn]

The crux of the claim is that the authorities disclosed her personal medical and sexual information. Not much doubt that that's true, is there?

Doesn't stop at least one terrifically sad pro-guilt nutter carpet-bombing the comments below that Ground Report article with misrepresentations and character smears (such as "Knox was quite happy to brag about all the guys she laid"). Seriously, such individuals really do need to step back and question their own motives and personal issues.

 

[Numbers]

I think you are likely right - such hearings that do take place, as you pointed out elsewhere, are not hearings as most people understand them.

I will try to get some definitive clarification of these procedural matters.

"Proceedings are conducted in writing. You will be informed in
writing of any decision taken by the Court. Public hearings are
exceptional."

From: ECHR Questions and Answers, PDF; link (Information Documents):
http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=court&c=#newComponent_1346149514608_pointer

ETA: Considering the many tens of thousands of cases that come before the ECHR*, why would that organization seek public hearings on any but a few cases each year? Almost all ECHR cases consist only of a review of court records and other documents, such as reports from Council of Europe agencies or UN agencies. Investigations, if required, are generally the responsibility of the Respondent State or other State member of the Council of Europe, as requested by the ECHR. Refusal to conduct such a requested investigation or misconduct in an investigation is itself a violation of the Convention and may lead to inferences.

*Total number of pending applications as of 30 April 2016: 69,850. Source: link to pending cases PDF, http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=

 

[Bill Williams]

The crux of the claim is that the authorities disclosed her personal medical and sexual information. Not much doubt that that's true, is there?

Doesn't stop at least one terrifically sad pro-guilt nutter carpet-bombing the comments below that Ground Report article with misrepresentations and character smears (such as "Knox was quite happy to brag about all the guys she laid"). Seriously, such individuals really do need to step back and question their own motives and personal issues.

Three side issues:

1) someone has outed themselves as per the various pseudos they use. Is it then fair ball to make reference to those self-connected pseudos here on ISF? One of those pseudos is credited by Nick van der Leek as being of invaluable service is assembling his cut and paste book.

2) the basis of that groundreport commentator's view is slut-shaming, pure and simple. Lessee - who else does that here on ISF?

3) a constant harangue about Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, Knox, as if there was only one actor in this sad saga; not one word of the obvious misconduct of police and prison officials, some of which is now in front of the ECHR for consideration.​

 

[Bill Williams]

In addition to what may or may not be fair ball in this forum.....

If someone goes to a Florence courtroom claiming a case of massive and widespread corruption within the Italian judiciary in relation to the March 2015 acquittals of RS and AK....

Is it permissible to ask, in this forum, how that complaint was received and what its disposition was?

In the past Machiavelli has corrected me in having wrong knowledge of, for instance, what the nature and timing of various hearings were in relation to Mignini's abuse of office process......

Why can't we talk about this other process involving massive abuse of judiciary?

 

[Vixen]

The crux of the claim is that the authorities disclosed her personal medical and sexual information. Not much doubt that that's true, is there?

No. Amanda of her own volition decided to write it down in her diary. It was her diary that was leaked. There is no evidence at all the false positive result was fake or that she was ordered to list her sexual partners.

 

[Diocletus]

No. Amanda of her own volition decided to write it down in her diary. It was her diary that was leaked. There is no evidence at all the false positive result was fake or that she was ordered to list her sexual partners.

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

[Vixen]

"Proceedings are conducted in writing. You will be informed in
writing of any decision taken by the Court. Public hearings are
exceptional."

From: ECHR Questions and Answers, PDF; link (Information Documents):
http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=court&c=#newComponent_1346149514608_pointer

ETA: Considering the many tens of thousands of cases that come before the ECHR*, why would that organization seek public hearings on any but a few cases each year? Almost all ECHR cases consist only of a review of court records and other documents, such as reports from Council of Europe agencies or UN agencies. Investigations, if required, are generally the responsibility of the Respondent State or other State member of the Council of Europe, as requested by the ECHR. Refusal to conduct such a requested investigation or misconduct in an investigation is itself a violation of the Convention and may lead to inferences.

*Total number of pending applications as of 30 April 2016: 69,850. Source: link to pending cases PDF, http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=

Last year there were 24 judgments involving Italy (some will have been upheld, some dismissed). Of the entire European Human Rights Act, only one was concerning Article 6: Unfair Trial.

This suggests Italy does not have an inordinately unfair courts procedure.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah, that's what I said.

What has that got to do with the doctor? One of the PIP tried to flog nude pictures of Knox taken in prison to the national press.

The prison diary is part of the public court documents, so please explain what proof there is the HIV result was fake and that she was forced to list her partners.

No-one asked her to list them.

As a very serious allegation against a member of the medical profession, why didn't she complain to the medical regulatory body and bring this doctor to their attention?

I see. ECHR just has to take your word for it.

Riiight.

 

[Numbers]

Last year there were 24 judgments involving Italy (some will have been upheld, some dismissed). Of the entire European Human Rights Act, only one was concerning Article 6: Unfair Trial.

This suggests Italy does not have an inordinately unfair courts procedure.

I suggest that those interested in this question look at the record over a longer period of time. One year is a short period of time for the ECHR because of the many cases it must consider. Italy has 274 judgments of violations since 1959 for unfair trial. The only States with worse records are (in ascending order of number of violations): Romania, Ukraine, Russia, and Turkey.

Source: Statistics by State, link on http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=

ETA: It should also be clear that an unfair trial, especially the wrongful conviction of innocent persons, is wrongful whether it happens in a State with no history of unfair trials or one with a history of hundreds of such unfair trials.

 

[Numbers]

What has that got to do with the doctor? One of the PIP tried to flog nude pictures of Knox taken in prison to the national press.

The prison diary is part of the public court documents, so please explain what proof there is the HIV result was fake and that she was forced to list her partners.

No-one asked her to list them.

As a very serious allegation against a member of the medical profession, why didn't she complain to the medical regulatory body and bring this doctor to their attention?

I see. ECHR just has to take your word for it.

Riiight.

Your misunderstandings of this case are hilarious.

The diary was taken by Italian government (prison) officials, not by a medical doctor (or anyone claiming to be in a medical profession).

The diary was leaked to the media. A book and newspaper articles were written based in part on its contents. Amanda Knox has already won a civil suit in Italy against the person who wrote the book and the publisher. What the ECHR case concerns is holding the State of Italy responsible for the misconduct of its agents, a violation of the right to privacy (Article 8) which could not be pursued otherwise.

 

[Vixen]

Your misunderstandings of this case are hilarious.

The diary was taken by Italian government (prison) officials, not by a medical doctor (or anyone claiming to be in a medical profession).

The diary was leaked to the media. A book and newspaper articles were written based in part on its contents. Amanda Knox has already won a civil suit in Italy against the person who wrote the book and the publisher. What the ECHR case concerns is holding the State of Italy responsible for the misconduct of its agents, a violation of the right to privacy (Article 8) which could not be pursued otherwise.

The claim is 'a prison officer maliciously told Knox she had AIDS and forced her to list all her partners so that he could then leak it. The HIV test was faked as 'positive' to harass her.'

Do you have any proof the diary was leaked by the Italian government and not the defence team, or even the same person who stole the nude photos?

ETA You are referring to Fiorenza Sarzanini's book and this was suppressed on the grounds it could prejudice the trial, not because Sarzanini 'leaked' anything.

How do you know it was the authorities who leaked it and not one of Knox' supporters with an eye to cashing in on the case?

 

[Numbers]

The claim is 'a prison officer maliciously told Knox she had AIDS and forced her to list all her partners so that he could then leak it. The HIV test was faked as 'positive' to harass her.'

Do you have any proof the diary was leaked by the Italian government and not the defence team, or even the same person who stole the nude photos?

ETA You are referring to Fiorenza Sarzanini's book and this was suppressed on the grounds it could prejudice the trial, not because Sarzanini 'leaked' anything.

How do you know it was the authorities who leaked it and not one of Knox' supporters with an eye to cashing in on the case?

LOL! Sarzanini was a recipient of the leak who published information from it.

We will see what Italy has in answer to the ECHR Communication and future ECHR questions. Perhaps they will adopt the defenses that you suggest.

ETA: "In her book published last week, Ms Sarzanini refers to previously unpublished extracts from Knox's diary, that she kept from August 2007 until a few weeks after the murder."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-Foxy-Knoxy-thinking-sex.html#ixzz497juVecj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

ETA2: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amandafoxy-knox-wins-damages-after-209639

"Amanda"Foxy" Knox wins damages after suing author Fiorenza Sarzanini

The book by crime journalist Fiorenza Sarzanini used excerpts of Knox's notebooks and diary in her book but her lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova argued successfully that it was an invasion of her privacy."

The above confirms that Knox won her case based on a lawsuit claiming invasion of privacy.

Are you not concerned that the misstatements in your post will damage your credibility? LOL

 

[acbytesla]

LOL! Sarzanini was a recipient of the leak who published information from it.

We will see what Italy has in answer to the ECHR Communication and future ECHR questions. Perhaps they will adopt the defenses that you suggest.

ETA: "In her book published last week, Ms Sarzanini refers to previously unpublished extracts from Knox's diary, that she kept from August 2007 until a few weeks after the murder."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-Foxy-Knoxy-thinking-sex.html#ixzz497juVecj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

ETA2: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amandafoxy-knox-wins-damages-after-209639

"Amanda"Foxy" Knox wins damages after suing author Fiorenza Sarzanini

The book by crime journalist Fiorenza Sarzanini used excerpts of Knox's notebooks and diary in her book but her lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova argued successfully that it was an invasion of her privacy."

The above confirms that Knox won her case based on a lawsuit claiming invasion of privacy.

Are you not concerned that the misstatements in your post will damage your credibility? LOL

Now that is funny. I like it when people add humor to their posts.

 

[Bill Williams]

LOL! Sarzanini was a recipient of the leak who published information from it.

.......... 《sinister deletia》...........

Are you not concerned that the misstatements in your post will damage your credibility? LOL

Misstatements comprise the sum total of her credibility. At least she was honest enough to admit the the Channel 5 climber was not 6' 7" - she said that that had been an exaggeration.

For some reason exaggerations are seen to enhance one's cred.

 

[Numbers]

The claim is 'a prison officer maliciously told Knox she had AIDS and forced her to list all her partners so that he could then leak it. The HIV test was faked as 'positive' to harass her.'

Do you have any proof the diary was leaked by the Italian government and not the defence team, or even the same person who stole the nude photos?

ETA You are referring to Fiorenza Sarzanini's book and this was suppressed on the grounds it could prejudice the trial, not because Sarzanini 'leaked' anything.

How do you know it was the authorities who leaked it and not one of Knox' supporters with an eye to cashing in on the case?

Now that is funny. I like it when people add humor to their posts.

Since Vixen mentions nude photos in the above post - did the Italian authorities ever produce photos of the cat with the bleeding ear that they allege left the blood stains in the downstairs apartment of the cottage? A close-up of that ear injury might be revealing.

The blood stain on the bed that was similar to one on the upstairs bed, that looked a bit like what a bloody knife blade would leave? The blood stain on a sheet. videoed on the floor, that according to the witness statement of an upstairs boy had been laundry hanging on a rope? And the blood stain by the light switch, that VQA Giobbi testified had been caused by the cat leaping and hitting the wall just there?

 

[Methos]

What has that got to do with the doctor? One of the PIP tried to flog nude pictures of Knox taken in prison to the national press.
[...]

Let me guess, who you are talking about... do a little research... and steal (with permission) from this post on IA the post is dated; "Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:17 pm", so a long long time ago, on a forum far away

Peg wrote: "Frank was widely known to have tried to peddle nude photos of Knox to the tabloids."

The guilters mention this often. Have they ever elaborated on this topic at all or do they just keep repeating the same BS? Where do they think Frank acquired these alleged photos?

I think this nonsense originated with Vogt or [highlight]Nadeau[/highlight] and she just keeps repeating it in order to smear someone she dislikes, knowing full well that its rubbish.

I was just curious if anyone had traced it back to see where it originated. It is 100% false of course. I wondered if any crazy reasoning was given for how Frank may have obtained nude photos of a young woman that was in prison the entire time he was reporting on the case.

B_Real has it right, the source for the "nude pictures" thing seems to be this article (the quote is on the second page):

The trial has also spawned a bizarre online subculture where bloggers bicker and anonymous posters spew vile comments and juvenile threats that often seem straight out of a South Park episode. One blogger even filed a police complaint against another in Seattle. Another blogger reportedly tried to sell nudie pictures of Knox to a British tabloid.

Two days later on PMF:

[...]
As everyone knows, I am the blogger who filed the police complaint in Seattle - not against another blogger, but rather against identified individuals who were harassing me. [highlight]But who's the blogger who reportedly tried to sell nude photos of Knox to a British tabloid?[/highlight] How many bloggers out there could gain access to such photos, if they exist? And who would seek to gain financially in such an utterly sleazy way? Just when I thought this case couldn't get any stranger or uglier - with the arrival of Famous Potatoes - it does just that.
[...]

Then, a first speculation:

This statement by Barbie Nadeau in her most recent Newsweek article has me wondering:

"One blogger even filed a police complaint against another in Seattle. Another blogger reportedly tried to sell nudie pictures of Knox to a British tabloid. While in Perugia, Knox's family and friends hurl insults at "tacky journalists" who dare question the defendant's innocence."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215133

We are all well aware that Skep is the blogger who filed a police complaint.

So, WHO is the blogger who tried to sell nudie pictures of Knox to the British tabloids? How did this "blogger" obtain these nude photos?

I'd like to know more. [highlight]I'm in SHOCK![/highlight]

... and finally (I haven't read all the posts on PMF between Sep 13, 2009 and Apr 24, 2010, so maybe someone else started it...):

I'm going to risk the wrath of SA here
I'm going to mention the matter of the Amanda Knox naked pictures. There is no tape, but there are pictures.
I fully agree with SA. Sex pictures, tapes (provided they are not illegal) have no bearing on the case or on Amanda Knox whatsoever. They have nothing to do with the question of whether Amanda murdered Meredith or not.
So, why do I mention them? I mention them because this site is not only concerned about what happens in court (and after all, that is the aspect we can and intend to influence the least...we are happy to let justice run its course).
What we are concerned with and where we do have an influence, is with all those shady figures on the periphery...those who think justice should not be allowed to run its course and it is what they say it is. They claim the high ground. Of course, we beg to differ, especially when their honesty, morality and ethics are so much in question. And I can think of no better way to example this then the matter of Amanda's naked photos. What some maybe didn't realise is that these photos exist and what even less realised, is these photos have recently been hawked around the press corps for sale. [highlight]What even fewer still might know, is the person that has been trying to sell these pictures, for profit, is a very well known apologist for Amanda, is based in Perugia[/highlight] and is known for being a bit of a farce. He's been trying to sell these for monetary gain and has been turned down, at least by some. With friends like these, what enemies does Amanda need? And what does this say about the kind of people who have been 'helping' her?
This needed pointing out, because many are clearly unaware of many of the scuzzy things going on in the background of this case. Some people are chasing ambulances even lawyers won't touch. I can only keep silent for so long.

...

 

[Methos]

The claim is 'a prison officer maliciously told Knox she had AIDS and forced her to list all her partners so that he could then leak it. The HIV test was faked as 'positive' to harass her.'

Do you have any proof the diary was leaked by the Italian government and not the defence team, or even the same person who stole the nude photos?

ETA You are referring to Fiorenza Sarzanini's book and this was suppressed on the grounds it could prejudice the trial, not because Sarzanini 'leaked' anything. How do you know it was the authorities who leaked it and not one of Knox' supporters with an eye to cashing in on the case?

Sarzanini's book was never suppressed, where did you get this one???

 

[Stacyhs]

And a swing and a miss. Steeeerrriike One!

Strike ONE? She's had more strikes than TrenItalia.