Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Desert Fox]

It simply doesn't matter as the police callunia case has nothing to do with the Patrick Lumumba case. One could hardly argue that Amanda said in court several years later that she said this under duress.

What this does is allow Amanda a new trial for the Patrick Lumumba conviction without any statements Amanda made from November 5th until she was able to talk with a lawyer. Basically an impossibility since the conviction is based on those statements. At which point Amanda can apply for restitution.

It will also be both a moral victory for her and remove the last remain blot on her record.

 

[analemma]

... I'm speechless

How much better it would have been for everyone if you had always been 'speechless'....even yourself.
You have been wrong about everything for YEARS.
You are like the schoolyard bully who finally gets the beating he deserves for his claims of perfection and knowledge and then backs down by saying he never made the claims.
You are indeed a piece of work

 

[analemma]

Amanda and Raff are so addicted to publicity, good or bad, they don't know when it is better to shut up and sling their hook.

If this is not the pot calling the kettle black

 

[acbytesla]

If this is not the pot calling the kettle black

It really is a joke to say that either of them particularly Amanda is addicted to publicity. You almost couldn't keep a lower profile than Amanda. It's not like Amanda has been hitting the club scene and caught taking drugs or with her knickers down. Years now the Paparazzi has been following her around and what have they got? Going to school and a thrift store. Wow! Some publicity hound.

 

[analemma]

From their questions it also doesn't seem the ECHR knows anything of the case, except what Knox defence submitted to them.

To quote from Animal House

'this is soooo much fun'

 

[Kauffer]

This article quotes Ghirga referring to two interesting things:

1) The response to the ECHR being required by September
2) That there will, in fact, be hearings.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/256db90e7d37f39988fb852f105cc84a

 

[Desert Fox]

This article quotes Ghirga referring to two interesting things:

1) The response to the ECHR being required by September
2) That there will, in fact, be hearings.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/256db90e7d37f39988fb852f105cc84a

Paywall

 

[Vixen]

It really is a joke to say that either of them particularly Amanda is addicted to publicity. You almost couldn't keep a lower profile than Amanda. It's not like Amanda has been hitting the club scene and caught taking drugs or with her knickers down. Years now the Paparazzi has been following her around and what have they got? Going to school and a thrift store. Wow! Some publicity hound.

So what was all that Nacho Picasso stuff, 'lip synching to Amanda Knox'; l was shocked to learn 'lip synching' is rap euphemism for oral sex. Where was 'fiancé' Colin when all this was going on. Oh dear, he was making his solo debut in New York.

 

[Kauffer]

This article quotes Ghirga referring to two interesting things:

1) The response to the ECHR being required by September
2) That there will, in fact, be hearings.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/256db90e7d37f39988fb852f105cc84a

Paywall

Here's the relevant part :


"Ms Knox’s lawyers mounted an appeal to the European court over the interrogation in 2013 and have been told that the court would hear the case.

“We are really satisfied by the decision,” said Mr Ghirga. “We will ask for a token sum in damages but we are not interested in money.”

The Italian government is now required to present its case to the court by mid September, he said.

Mr Ghirga said he was not sure if Ms Knox, 28, who now works as a journalist in her home town Seattle, would attend the hearings. “We have told her it’s happening but I am not sure if she will come since she has a life to lead,” he said."

 

[Vixen]

Ground Report has censored my comment regarding the ECHR HIV breach claim so I'll issue it here:

No, they did not 'ask Knox to provide a list of sexual contacts'; that is a complete myth. See Amanda Knox' diary for yourself in which she herself states it was HER decision to list her partners. Women in prison are often highly promiscuous and randomly allocated doctors are honestly not the slightest bit interested in whom they sleep with. Most HIV in prisons come from needle sharing, and the aim is to provide HIV support to those living with HIV, not pry into their sex lives.

See page 1193 of Knox' own diary wherein she confirms the doctor explained the result was probably a false positive (they happen quite often!) and not to worry about it.

It is a complete lie "a prison officer told her she had AIDS and demanded she list all her sex partners and then leaked the results". I hope ECHR pick up on this self-serving false claim.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...etter-drafts-original-Italian-translation.pdf

 

[acbytesla]

So what was all that Nacho Picasso stuff, 'lip synching to Amanda Knox'; l was shocked to learn 'lip synching' is rap euphemism for oral sex. Where was 'fiancé' Colin when all this was going on. Oh dear, he was making his solo debut in New York.

Wow! Only you can turn a single time Amanda chose to do Karaoke into her being a publicity hound. Amanda has been free for 5 years Vixen and that one moment is what you think shows that she is addicted to publicity? This young women if she wanted could make the tabloids every week. You really have to get out of your bubble.

 

[LondonJohn]

Wow! Only you can turn a single time Amanda chose to do Karaoke into her being a publicity hound. Amanda has been free for 5 years Vixen and that one moment is what you think shows that she is addicted to publicity? This young women if she wanted could make the tabloids every week. You really have to get out of your bubble.

It's very sad and not a little pathetic, isn't it. The nutters who micro-follow the ongoing lives of Knox and/or Sollecito, looking for things to inflate and criticise, really and truly ought to take a good, hard look at their own lives.

 

[LondonJohn]

Here's the relevant part :


"Ms Knox’s lawyers mounted an appeal to the European court over the interrogation in 2013 and have been told that the court would hear the case.

“We are really satisfied by the decision,” said Mr Ghirga. “We will ask for a token sum in damages but we are not interested in money.”

The Italian government is now required to present its case to the court by mid September, he said.

Mr Ghirga said he was not sure if Ms Knox, 28, who now works as a journalist in her home town Seattle, would attend the hearings. “We have told her it’s happening but I am not sure if she will come since she has a life to lead,” he said."

But God Ergon said clearly that the ECHR communication was nothing more than a request for information to Knox's lawyer. I'm terribly confused

 

[LondonJohn]

It really is a joke to say that either of them particularly Amanda is addicted to publicity. You almost couldn't keep a lower profile than Amanda. It's not like Amanda has been hitting the club scene and caught taking drugs or with her knickers down. Years now the Paparazzi has been following her around and what have they got? Going to school and a thrift store. Wow! Some publicity hound.

Exactly. And both Knox and Sollecito are entitled to do EXACTLY WHAT THEY LIKE these days. And more than that, it's strongly arguable that two people who had several years taken from them by the Italian state - years that should have been some of the most fun and character-forming of their lives - should almost be expected to "max out" a little as a reaction and a rebalancing.

I wonder if Vixen would enjoy freelance photographers following her intermittently, looking for "interesting" photos to sell to the likes of the Daily Mail for money? It's very interesting to note what (sadly) happened to that vindictive bitter online commentator, "Sweepyface", when she herself was placed in the spotlight..........

 

[acbytesla]

It's very sad and not a little pathetic, isn't it. The nutters who micro-follow the ongoing lives of Knox and/or Sollecito, looking for things to inflate and criticise, really and truly ought to take a good, hard look at their own lives.

It's mind boggling to me. Is this what they men by cognitive dissonance?

If Amanda wanted publicity she would have moved to New York or LA. I'd bet money she could have gone to lots of high profile parties and the Paparazzi would have had a field day. But no, not Amanda. She chose to live in a tiny apartment in Seattle's ID, maybe the least glamorous part of town in a place where the press will actually leave you alone.

When Vixen writes something like this I am stunned by it because I don't know if she knows how dishonest she's being or her critical thinking skills are damaged.beyond repair.

 

[Numbers]

It simply doesn't matter as the police callunia case has nothing to do with the Patrick Lumumba case. One could hardly argue that Amanda said in court several years later that she said this under duress.

What this does is allow Amanda a new trial for the Patrick Lumumba conviction without any statements Amanda made from November 5th until she was able to talk with a lawyer. Basically an impossibility since the conviction is based on those statements. At which point Amanda can apply for restitution.

The importance of the calunnia against the police case should not be underestimated. Whatever its outcome, it is important to the ECHR case of Amanda's claim of wrongful conviction in the calunnia against Lumumba case. But the significance is not that it impedes the timing of the ECHR case.

The importance is whether or not the calunnia against the police case is or is not another victimization of Amanda Knox, by the simple fact that a person stating a claim of mistreatment by the police in Italy is then prosecuted, on no evidence, for calunnia. And then the question is, whether or not such prosecution is successful in bringing about a conviction, or whether the Italian court recognizes there should be an acquittal because there is actually evidence that the mistreatment occurred.

All of the factors in the above paragraph may be evaluated by the ECHR as part of this case and even used as part of the reasoning of its judgment.

 

[Numbers]

This article quotes Ghirga referring to two interesting things:

1) The response to the ECHR being required by September
2) That there will, in fact, be hearings.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/256db90e7d37f39988fb852f105cc84a

There's a paywall. Is there another source? The response by September is credible. I am not so sure about the ECHR holding public hearings. These are, as I understand it, only held for Grand Chamber cases, and not necessarily all of those. The Grand Chamber hearings consist merely of the lawyers for the two sides presenting their cases, followed by the judges asking some questions of the lawyers. There is, in general, no testimony of witnesses in such hearings. Videos of the Grand Chamber hearings as well as a list of hearings (past and future) are available from the ECHR home-site links:

http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=hearings&c=

I watched the Ibrahim et al. v. the UK Grand Chamber hearing. Only lawyers would find it exciting. Note that that hearing was not of the original Chamber case, but the appeal to the Grand Chamber within the ECHR by two of the applicants.

 

[Numbers]

Here's the relevant part :


"Ms Knox’s lawyers mounted an appeal to the European court over the interrogation in 2013 and have been told that the court would hear the case.

“We are really satisfied by the decision,” said Mr Ghirga. “We will ask for a token sum in damages but we are not interested in money.”

The Italian government is now required to present its case to the court by mid September, he said.

Mr Ghirga said he was not sure if Ms Knox, 28, who now works as a journalist in her home town Seattle, would attend the hearings. “We have told her it’s happening but I am not sure if she will come since she has a life to lead,” he said."

Due to the very large volume of cases, ECHR simply does not do hearings of most cases. I suspect that the question to Ghirga might have been: If there are hearings, will Ms Knox attend?

 

[acbytesla]

The importance of the calunnia against the police case should not be underestimated. Whatever its outcome, it is important to the ECHR case of Amanda's claim of wrongful conviction in the calunnia against Lumumba case. But the significance is not that it impedes the timing of the ECHR case.

The importance is whether or not the calunnia against the police case is or is not another victimization of Amanda Knox, by the simple fact that a person stating a claim of mistreatment by the police in Italy is then prosecuted, on no evidence, for calunnia. And then the question is, whether or not such prosecution is successful in bringing about a conviction, or whether the Italian court recognizes there should be an acquittal because there is actually evidence that the mistreatment occurred.

All of the factors in the above paragraph may be evaluated by the ECHR as part of this case and even used as part of the reasoning of its judgment.

I agree with your analysis. My point was the that the status of the police callunia case does not cause an impediment to Amanda's pursuit of a ruling in the other case. I think the motivation from the police case can only be beneficial to Amanda. I also see that like Raffaele she will be seeking the maximum of more than $500,000 compensation for her wrongful incarceration.

 

[Kauffer]

Due to the very large volume of cases, ECHR simply does not do hearings of most cases. I suspect that the question to Ghirga might have been: If there are hearings, will Ms Knox attend?

I think you are likely right - such hearings that do take place, as you pointed out elsewhere, are not hearings as most people understand them.

I will try to get some definitive clarification of these procedural matters.