Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread II

[Hercules56]

The race ends on Tuesday.

Hillary will win all if not most states, some with very large majorities.

She will win at least 60-65 percent of all pledged delegates, and 100% of all superdelegates.

It's over, except in Bernie's ego.

 

[Trakar]

No, Trump has what we call "**** you" money, basically so much money that he is not beholden to anyone.

Clinton and her husband have to sell themselves everyday, basically turning their lives in "public service" (and do not think I did not gag when I wrote that) into a cash cow.

I had just a little throw-up in the back of my mouth just reading it.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I had just a little throw-up in the back of my mouth just reading it.

It's nice to see finally see the "Bernie supporters" showing thier true colors and coming out for trump.

 

[Maya22]

What, exactly, do you feel is at stake, that will be adequately addressed by Hillary and made horribly worse by all of the Republican candidates?

My reply is late because I had a busy day, and I needed some time to think about how to respond.

The following are some of the stances that Sanders and Clinton have in common.

Both are pro-choice

Both are for LGBT marriage equality.

Both are against the privatization of social security.

Both would like to see Israel and Palestine be two separate countries.

Both are for an increase of the federal minimum wage.

Both are against the use of torture.

Both acknowledge that human activity is responsible for climate change.

Both are against the Keystone XL pipeline.

Cruz, Kasich and Trump vary in their stances regarding these issues. In most instances, these Republican candidates hold opposing views from their Democratic counterparts.

The new president will be in charge of nominating Supreme Court justices as the older justices retire.

I agree with the Democratic candidates regarding the issues I listed above. I prefer to have a Democratic president choose Cabinet members and nominate Supreme Court justices. A Democratic president would nominate justices that at are pro-choice and pro-LGBT marriage equality. A Republican president would be unlikely to do that.

 

[Maya22]

It's nice to see finally see the "Bernie supporters" showing thier true colors and coming out for trump.

I haven't met any of those you mentioned in person. All of the Sanders supporters I know in person plan on voting either blue or green in November. Some will vote for the Democratic nominee whoever he or she is. Some will vote for the Green Party candidate. All of the Clinton supporters I know in person plan on voting blue, no matter who. The folks I mentioned are friends, family and acquaintances.

My Republican friends and family members either like Cruz or some of the Republican candidates who have already dropped out.

 

[Trakar]

It's nice to see finally see the "Bernie supporters" showing thier true colors and coming out for trump.

Yep, I refer to Hillary and you perceive Trump, same problem I keep having more and more often myself...perhaps if either one started telling the truth instead of what is convenient at the moment, they'd be easier to distinguish.

 

[Trakar]

My reply is late because I had a busy day, and I needed some time to think about how to respond.

The following are some of the stances that Sanders and Clinton have in common.

Both are pro-choice

Both are for LGBT marriage equality.

Both are against the privatization of social security.

Both would like to see Israel and Palestine be two separate countries.

Both are for an increase of the federal minimum wage.

Both are against the use of torture.

Both acknowledge that human activity is responsible for climate change.

Both are against the Keystone XL pipeline.

They both currently maintain those positions, and one I trust and the other I don't. One I feel speaks much closer to the scale that is appropriate to actually address the issues he is concerned about, the other has a collection of half steps that wouldn't keep up with the pace of the problems yet alone seriously impact the primary issues.

Particularly with respect to foreign policy, corporate and financial industry reform and re-regulation, income inequality and all-around social safety-net expansion and enhancement. We need to eliminate permanent, overseas military basing and reduce our overall military budget to around a quarter of what it currently is over the next decade and then have it keep pace with the economy..

I'm personally and professionally very concerned about the direction of health care in our nation particularly the health care insurance industry.

Cruz, Kasich and Trump vary in their stances regarding these issues. In most instances, these Republican candidates hold opposing views from their Democratic counterparts.

Trump and Clinton both actually agree on quite a few points

Both seem to share a disdain for free speech and net neutrality
Trump – YES -“We’re losing a lot of people because of the Internet. We have to see Bill Gates and a lot of different people who really understand what’s happening and maybe, in some ways, closing that Internet up in some ways. Somebody will say, ‘Oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people, we have a lot of foolish people. We’ve got to maybe do something with the Internet because they’re recruiting by the thousands, they’re leaving our country, and then when they come back, we take them back.”
Hillary – YES - “We’re going to have to have more support from our friends in the technology world to deny online space. Just as we have to destroy [ISIS’s] would-be caliphate, we have to deny them online space. And this is complicated. You’re going to hear all of the usual complaints, you know, freedom of speech, et cetera. But if we truly are in a war against terrorism and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, then we’ve got to shut off their means of communicating. It’s more complicated with some of what they do on encrypted apps, and I’m well aware of that, and that requires even more thinking about how to do it.” - https://vimeo.com/148092658

Both think physically and mentally capable adults on welfare should be required to work? Both say “Yes”
Trump – YES – http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
Hillary – YES - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/us/politics/11welfare.html?pagewanted=all

Educated, trained, assisted to find their own value, sure, but I'm not certain either of them would refuse to sign a law that simply forced people to do assigned roles if they wished to live in a house/apartment and have basic utilities, food and clothing. Personally, I think that such should be the minimal benefit of living in a nation such as this.

Should the military fly drones over foreign countries to gain intelligence and kill suspected terrorists?
Trump – YES – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/donald-trump-rand-paul_n_2852557.html
Hillary – YES - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-says-2009-us-drones-had-killed-doz/

I disagree

Should the U.S. formally declare war on ISIS?
Trump – YES – http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...bomb-s-isis-ridicules-weakness-obama-clinton/
Hillary – YES - http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/transcript-msnbc-democratic-candidates-debate-n511036

I disagree

Do they support the Patriot Act?
Trump – YES – http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-presidential-wannabes-stand-patriot-act-334968
Hillary – YES - http://factcheck.bootnetworks.com/article416.html

I disagree

Do they support the death penalty?
Trump – YES - http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/01/n...-trump-urges-return-of-the-death-penalty.html
Hillary – YES - http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/transcript-msnbc-democratic-candidates-debate-n511036

I disagree

Do they support the use of hydraulic fracking to extract oil and natural gas resources?
Trump – YES - https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/198131842593984515
Hillary – YES - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/us/politics/transcript-democratic-presidential-debate.html?_r=0

I disagree

The new president will be in charge of nominating Supreme Court justices as the older justices retire.

If the current president is incapable of replacing a supreme court justice who died in office, what makes you think that Hillary would be given that opportunity? While the Republicans might be able to pass one of Trump's nominees, which would put us right back where we were at in December 2015 for another four years or so. The next mid-terms would probably see the Democratic Senate switch and significant gains in the House, possibly enough to even switch the House back to Democratic control in 2020. A Hillary presidency will probably strengthen Republican majorities in both the Senate and the House over the mid-term and 2020 elections

I agree with the Democratic candidates regarding the issues I listed above. I prefer to have a Democratic president choose Cabinet members and nominate Supreme Court justices. A Democratic president would nominate justices that at are pro-choice and pro-LGBT marriage equality. A Republican president would be unlikely to do that.

I disagree with one of the Democratic candidates about the above issues, and I disagree with Sanders (and Dr. Stein) regarding nuclear power, GMO bans/labeling, among a few other issues of high personal priority to myself.

I'm not sure how I will fully resolve this issue in November, but I don't feel any inclination to show any loyalty or support for the Democratic party after the way they've acted over the course of the last year.

 

[Maya22]

Thank you for your response. I think I understand your views better than before.

 

[catsmate]

A stark example of anti-Clinton irrationality, bordering on the surreal.

Indeed.

By the way, Trump's fave SCOTUS member is Clarence Thomas.

Because he doesn't talk much?

 

[Stacko]

I Think Michael A. Cohen has the right idea in his, "Open Letter to Bernie Sanders."

...

Rather than raising money to run more ads that likely aren’t going to move the polling needle, start raising money for liberal Democrats in swing districts, Democrats who, with that little extra boost from your supporters, might be able to win in November. After all, if you want a political revolution, don’t you need to elect a few more like-minded Democrats to Congress? And with Trump as the likely GOP nominee, the chances of a Democratic wave in the House and the Senate are that much greater. Maybe focus on local races in places like Florida or Ohio or North Carolina, where Republican-dominated state legislatures are putting up restrictions on abortion rights, voting rights, and LGBT rights. You have the megaphone and the money to get your supporters involved in the nitty-gritty of local politics that Democrats have ignored for far too long. You want to beat the Democratic establishment? Become the Democratic establishment.

Rather than talking about a revolution that isn’t going to come this year, get your supporters focused on a more achievable set of goals. You’ve accomplished so much in the past year — don’t let your pursuit of the presidency get in the way of the kind of real change that could ensure your campaign is not a footnote but a first step toward a more progressive America.

 

[luchog]

I Think Michael A. Cohen has the right idea in his, "Open Letter to Bernie Sanders."

I think Michael A. Cohen hasn't been paying attention, because Sanders has been raising money for progressive candidates. I'm on his campaign mailing list, and along with his own fundraising emails, I'm also getting fundraising requests by the Sanders campaign for progressive candidates in various state and local races. He has also publicly supported several.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think Michael A. Cohen hasn't been paying attention, because Sanders has been raising money for progressive candidates. I'm on his campaign mailing list, and along with his own fundraising emails, I'm also getting fundraising requests by the Sanders campaign for progressive candidates in various state and local races. He has also publicly supported several.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-progressives-fundraising-221887

Bernie begins raising cash for down-ballot progressives
By GABRIEL DEBENEDETTI 04/13/16
3 whole candidates. WOW!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...


Because he doesn't talk much?

I'd think it was because Thomas was rabidly pro-business.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

They both currently maintain those positions, and one I trust and the other I don't. One I feel speaks much closer to the scale that is appropriate to actually address the issues he is concerned about, the other has a collection of half steps that wouldn't keep up with the pace of the problems yet alone seriously impact the primary issues.

More like, one makes idealistic promises and the other is closer to reality.

Trump and Clinton both actually agree on quite a few points ... [snip]

You went to an awful lot of trouble there to confirm your bias.

I'm pretty sure though that one thing which makes Trump attractive to people is they can find he supports any and every position like a chameleon.

I disagree with one of the Democratic candidates about the above issues, and I disagree with Sanders (and Dr. Stein) regarding nuclear power, GMO bans/labeling, among a few other issues of high personal priority to myself.

I'm not sure how I will fully resolve this issue in November, but I don't feel any inclination to show any loyalty or support for the Democratic party after the way they've acted over the course of the last year.

If you think SCOTUS appointments don't matter, I suggest you read a few of Scalia's more controversial rulings.

 

[Stacko]

I think Michael A. Cohen hasn't been paying attention, because Sanders has been raising money for progressive candidates. I'm on his campaign mailing list, and along with his own fundraising emails, I'm also getting fundraising requests by the Sanders campaign for progressive candidates in various state and local races. He has also publicly supported several.

He didn't claim Bernie wasn't raising money for progressive candidates. He made no mention of fundraising efforts beyond the money raised for his Presidential bid that he claims could be better spent on progressive candidates rather than to throw it down that money pit.

 

[BobTheCoward]

.

I'm not sure how I will fully resolve this issue in November, but I don't feel any inclination to show any loyalty or support for the Democratic party after the way they've acted over the course of the last year.

You also do t sound very much like a Democrat....not now and probably never like the Democratic party in history. What do you see yourself as?

 

[Trakar]

You also do t sound very much like a Democrat....not now and probably never like the Democratic party in history. What do you see yourself as?

I am a Progressive Republican along the lines of Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Eisenhower. I have voted Democratic in every major U.S. election since the early 90's (except 2008 when I was a Hillary supporter and ended up voting for Cynthia McKinney when Hillary threw her support behind Obama at the convention). The last Republican for President I voted for was Poppy Bush, and that was a nose holding lessor evil choice. The Republican party ran to the right in the 90s and left me behind, now the Democratic party is following them over the rightwing cliff, and I don't plan on following them over that edge either.

Ultimately I am much more Progressive than the modern understanding of Republican which confuses it with Conservatism. The only sense I remain Republican is in the original sense of the word: one who supports a representative republic form of governance, as an authority to regulate and control the excesses of wealth and power which tend to distort and corrupt democratic processes.

 

[Trakar]

I'm pretty sure though that one thing which makes Trump attractive to people is they can find he supports any and every position like a chameleon

Yet another common trait with Hillary

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yet another common trait with Hillary

That's pure bull crap. You can cherry pick a few things, oh gee, she change her position on this or that.

If you look at Clinton's career, she's been consistent since she was in her 20s. People that don't know that are going by the headlines and talking points and not by the facts.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Why Bernie Sanders is Actually Winning