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The "28 pages" thread

Oystein said:
Since the petition needed 100,000 signatures within 30 days, which means more than 3,000 signatures each day on average, it is usefull to visualize the result scaled to those targets:http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums...28pages_20150925_Scale2Target_zpsihoitpn5.gif

There was not one day when they got even 10% of the needed 3,333 average.

On most days, the Truth Movement, being a tiny, inconsequential fringe, doesn't even register blips on their own modest scales!
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While I'm not a Truther, I really would have appreciated to learn what was classified on those pages. Too bad that the Truth-Movement didn't focus on such issues to get anything more productive done. :boggled: ... That is if there still is any Movement in existence at all.
 
jimd3100 said:
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Name who was involved in the 9/11 plot that was executed by the Saudi Government. ...
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How would we know. When a Saudi shot at a USAF bus, they executed him the next day.
How do you know they have not executed anyone for supporting the 19 terrorists. Based on my experience with Saudis, like the execustion the day after the act; I would not be surprized if anyone did help, they will not be avaliable for interview by the FBI, but dead. Just a little BS based on my observation of justice in Saudi Arabia. They execute people; just some BS.
Do you think they did? Maybe that is in the 28 pages; maybe not.

jimd3100 said:
...
... perhaps Beachnut can do a book review and expose all of the "BS" in it.......
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or you could follow up and close out the insider trading you left as BS, and fuel for paranoia...
The biggest coincidence of them all is how many .... coincidences you have to believe in to believe the official story of 9/11.
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Maybe you did close out the insider trading, or is it in the 28 pages...

I found the puts were covers for long positions; I found trading stocks, if you make a mistake some fines happen the next trading day... oops (they got me) - ask Martha Stewart what happens if you lie about stock trades. There is path, records, this could be in the 28 pages; or not, since the SEC would find it easy to track the trades; and when they found the puts were a hedge for long positions, the BS ended. Darn.
It is easier to find BS about the puts, then the truth; and then leave it open, never close it out.
 
Would Saudi government sponsorship of Al-Qaeda be a real surprise, if conclusively proven true? The House of Saud - and by extension, the entire Saudi state - publicly rests its legitimacy on its ability to adhere to ultra-strict Wahhabi Sunni Islamic ideology. And the various members and factions of the royal family would obviously have their own agendas on top of that.

We already know that al-Qaeda had a government which gave aid and shelter to it - the Taliban in Afghanistan (and before that, the government of Sudan). We know that Osama bin Laden cultivated extensive ties to Saudi, Pakistani, and other governments of Sunni Islamic nations during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Even though he was officially "cut off", that doesn't mean that there wasn't lingering covert support for him from certain quarters.

Like I've said before, I wouldn't be shocked if some elements of the Saudi state (and for that matter, other Arab governments) - perhaps, for example, in their intelligence agencies - were involved in either covertly/tacitly supporting or turning a blind eye to al-Qaeda prior to (or even after) 9/11. Hell, it's basically been all but confirmed that the Pakistani ISI has long supported the Taliban in Afghanistan and other groups in the region (especially in regard to India, who have accused the ISI of sponsoring terrorism against them). And of course, Osama was living right near a large city in Pakistan, within a hop, skip, and a jump away from a prestigious military academy. Come on! :rolleyes:

Many countries' militaries and intelligence agencies have covertly - or even overtly - supported terrorists/paramilitary groups (or "guerillas") in the past. Look at the Troubles in Ireland for examples (on both sides, IIRC!). Even the United States has done so (CIA in Latin America during the Cold War, anyone??). So again...this wouldn't be a real surprise to me, IMHO.
 
As Saudi Arabia continues U.S.-backed strikes in Yemen and Washington lifts its freeze on military to aid to Egypt, new figures show President Obama has overseen a major increase in weapons sales since taking office. The majority of weapons exports under Obama have gone to the Middle East and Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia tops the list at $46 billion in new agreements. We are joined by William Hartung, who says that even after adjusting for inflation, "the volume of major deals concluded by the Obama administration in its first five years exceeds the amount approved by the Bush administration in its full eight years in office by nearly $30 billion. That also means that the Obama administration has approved more arms sales than any U.S. administration since World War II."

Ok so if the 28 pages point the fingers at Saudi Arabia government as the major financiers of terrorists, why are we in Afghanistan and Iraq and not Saudi Arabia if we're so concerned about terrorism? Moreover why is the US continuing with the arms sale agreements with Saudi Arabia when the US knows theyre the worlds biggest financiers of terrorism?
 
Perhaps, geggy, this has something to do with the fact that even Saudi Arabia is not a homogenous entity but comprised of millions of individuals, thousands of influenbtial players and dozens of groups competing for influence.

Perhaps it has something to do with the realization that regime change, while maybe ideologically desirable from our point of view, is unrealistic, and the realistic alternatives to the House of Saud even more unwielding.

You may remember that OBL had identified the King and his ruling clique as enemies, and the Kingdom in turn had recognized AQ as their enemy, back around the 2000/2001 timeframe.
"The enenmy of my enemy is my friend".

Having said this, I want to believe that there are smarter and more sustainable policy options available that do not involve propping up the Saudi dictatorship to the tune of tens of billions in advanced weapons. I fear more blowback as much as any good truther.

It's just I can't pretend to have solutions.
Do you?
 
I'm not opposed to selling U.S. weapons to Saudi Arabia. It helps American companies and workers and most of the weapons go straight into storage anyway since the Saudi's lack the necessary technically skilled manpower to operate the stuff properly anyway.

For example, in the 80's the Saudi's bought a bunch of American tanks because they were very similar to tanks the Pakistani's use. The idea being that in time of crisis they would import Pakistani soldiers to operate them :eek:
 
geggy said:
...
Ok so if the 28 pages point the fingers at Saudi Arabia government as the major financiers of terrorists, why are we in Afghanistan and Iraq and not Saudi Arabia if we're so concerned about terrorism? Moreover why is the US continuing with the arms sale agreements with Saudi Arabia when the US knows theyre the worlds biggest financiers of terrorism?
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easy... We went to Afghanistan to stop/get UBL, Too bad UBL went to hide in Pakistan, where we went to kill him.

Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, even if Bush or anyone tried to make a connection, it failed.

Why would we invade Saudi Arabia? Explain why?

Wonder who financed Tim McVeigh... back to 9/11... Who bought the knives, for 19 terrorists? A funding spike... how much is a knife? 5 bucks?
9/11 was done on the cheap. 19 terrorists took multi-million dollar planes, which kind of ruins follow the money before the event, since the planes were stolen. Flight training is also a non-event before 9/11, many student pilots come from all over the world to train in the USA, an uncle, or rich Saudi might fund training for Saudis, it would not be an indicator of funding terrorists... thus why would funding 9/11 trun out to be some indicator before hand... the 9/11 terrorists did not buy bombs, or fertilizer, or planes, or anything which would be a red flag... worse, the pretended to be students...

If I was a Saudi, and I knowingly funded 9/11, I would not want to be caught by Saudis, I might be dead the next day... they would have you confess, and the next day, dead...

maybe the 28 pages are how the Saudis killed people in Saudi Arabia the next day for being associated with the 19 terrorists, or the 15 Saudis of the 19.

What would we do to Saudi Arabia? If UBL was in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis might of executed him the next day... or might of sent him right over...

Sad that ULB, a spoiled Saudi, could trick 19 idiots to kill themselves and murder people on 911. I can't imagine 19 who are that stupid, but then 9/11 Truth movement proves there are people more gullible and dumber than the 19 idiots who did 911, inspired by an failed human, UBL.

When you provide evidence of who is funding terrorists, go on 60 minutes and expose them; be famous? When will you provide evidence?

Love the easy questions. Did you forget UBL was in Afghanistan some? Did you know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?
 
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Why do I have a feeling that the CTers will say stuff like "they have edited/re-writen some of the pages" or "of course the Saudi-Zionists want it unleased. It's all part of the big cover-up to get rid of the harmful evidence towards Saudi-Arabia. THINK about it! Why release the report after 13 years? Why not after 5 or immediately??11".

That last one is how the CTer I know sometimes acts on his posts, so...
 
tinribmancer said:
Why do I have a feeling that the CTers will say stuff like "they have edited/re-writen some of the pages" or "of course the Saudi-Zionists want it unleased. It's all part of the big cover-up to get rid of the harmful evidence towards Saudi-Arabia. THINK about it! Why release the report after 13 years? Why not after 5 or immediately??11".

That last one is how the CTer I know sometimes acts on his posts, so...
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I never quite understood why CT's started making such a big deal about a mere 28 pages that support the official story that 19 hijacker-terrorists did 9/11.

They were all over this issue about a year ago but it seems to have died down quite a bit. I suspect when they finally realized it would not reveal the big smoking gun they are always hoping for in the next classified document or un-released video.
 
pgimeno said:
I'm sure they will find something to spin.
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No need. It's much simpler than spin. The 28 pages that are eventually published, whatever they say, will not be the original 28 pages, but a set of fabricated replacements designed to bolster the Official Conspiracy Theory. This surmise will permit truthers to continue to demand the publication of the "real" 28 pages even after they've been published, to make up whatever they want as the supposed original contents, and to reject any information contained in what's actually published.

Dave
 
Axxman300 said:
This ran on Sunday night on CBS' 60 Minutes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-911-classified-report-steve-kroft/

Excellent.
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This 60 minutes news report AFAIK is the first time Fahad Thumairy has been mentioned on a television news story. He's one name in the 28 pages.

jimd3100 said:
Fahad Al-Thumairy: Until recently al-Thumairy was an accredited Saudi diplomat and imam at the King Fahad Mosque in Culver City, California.
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ProBonoShill said:
Hope they release the info very soon and I hope the victims family win their lawsuit.
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The Judge ruling on whether Saudi Arabia is guilty of 9-11, had already ruled that Iran was guilty of 9-11. It would be odd if he also decided that Saudi Arabia did 9-11 as well.

So he didn't.

December 23, 2011
U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels ruled yesterday that Iran and Hezbollah materially and directly supported al Qaeda in the September 11, 2001 attacks and are legally responsible for damages to hundreds of family members of 9/11 victims who are plaintiffs in the case.
http://iran911case.com/

Sept. 29, 2015
Saudi Arabia Is Dismissed as Defendant in 9/11 Lawsuits

The decision by U.S. District Judge George Daniels

In 2011, Judge Daniels entered a default judgment against Iran in one of the cases in the suit, which has since been expanded to other plaintiffs.

Plaintiffs’ attorneys have said a nuclear deal with Iran could open that country’s bank accounts to damage claims from the lawsuit and other terrorism cases.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-is-dismissed-as-defendant-in-9-11-lawsuits-1443581766

Trying to get Iran to pay Saudi Arabia's 10.5 billion dollar judgement is called "American Exceptionalism"

Iran ordered to pay $10.5 billion for 9/11 by US judge
Published time: 10 Mar 2016

A US judge ordered Iran to pay over $10 billion in damages to families of victims who died on September 11, 2001 – even though there is no evidence of Tehran’s direct connection to the attack. The same judge earlier cleared Saudi Arabia from culpability.
The default judgement was issued by US District Judge George Daniels in New York on Wednesday
https://www.rt.com/usa/335174-iran-damages-september-911-victims/

We (The public)could be getting more answers from those in Gitmo but Americas legal system has already determined that the evidence was against Iran, not Saudi Arabia.....

KSM.....
jimd3100 said:
I want him to answer questions in a court of law like why was Fahad Al Thumairy helping his idiot hijacker murderer buddies Mihdar and Hazmi when they got off the plane in L.A. Maybe his buddy Bin Attash might like to take that question as well...frankly there are some other Saudi "friends" of yours I'd like to see take the stand in that court.
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Zacarias Moussaoui was tried in civilian court.

The 60 minutes report also revealed that Aluqi had been known to be part of the 9-11 plot for some time

jimd3100 said:
The Imam referred to here is Anwar Aluqi - a buddy of Bayoumi.....
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Treason at it's worst - The most despicable cover up in U.S. History

jimd3100 said:
I think it's pretty despicable to immediately intervene in the Investigation of who was involved in murdering 3000 people on 9-11, in order to protect those involved and convince a terrified public that those not involved were - in order to use 9-11 as an opportunity to have a war with a country that was not involved in the plot in any way......It looks like treason to me. The real question - was it pre planned?
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Why it's called a cover up.........

"I consider myself to be pretty well informed, and I didn't know any of this stuff before I started reporting the story," says Kroft. "I just knew there had been some questions about what was happening in San Diego, but I didn't know all of the things in the public record. It seems like it's important information that people should know about."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-overtime-how-to-report-on-a-top-secret-document/

This is what passes as being "Presidential"

While busy interferring in the Joint Inquiry probe and protecting guilty Saudis, the President did take the time to tell Americans that Iraq was discovered to have longtime "high-level contacts" with al Qaeda....

October 7, 2002
President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat

We know that Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy -- the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade.

Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/10/print/20021007-8.html

jimd3100 said:
Like the fingerprints Saudi Arabia left all over the place that was covered up?

I have no doubt that "mistakes were made". But I don't think it's unreasonable for me to conclude this goes beyond "incompetence"
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Why I hate the "crazy" conspiracy theories..

jimd3100 said:
It isn't a "game", it's a cover up of treason and mass murder.
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While the 60 minutes report named Thumairy, they didn't outright say the main reason he is in the 28 pages......because he was the American contact for the first hijackers arriving........

jimd3100 said:
But these Al Qaeda operatives flew into Los Angeles and didn't go to San Diego until 2 weeks later. If they had a contact in America, it was at Los Angeles.

The FBI Penttbomb investigators know who the contact was....
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This is how it's possible to get an idea of what is in the 28 pages, and the information is still slowly being put out, and the more information revealed the worse it looks for certain entities...

60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft explains the challenges of reporting on a 28-page, classified document about the 9/11 attacks

What Kroft and the 60 Minutes team were able report on is information in the public record, much of it buried in footnotes and appendices.

Kroft's team also searched through dozens of original documents, including FBI reports and 9/11 Commission staff memos upon which those footnotes and appendices are based. Some of these documents have been partially declassified and placed in the custody of the National Archives and Records Administration. Other original source materials are filed in legal proceedings and as the result of Freedom of Information Act disclosures. The 60 Minutes reporters culled relevant clues and cross-referenced documents to fill in some blanks.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-overtime-how-to-report-on-a-top-secret-document/

FBI Penttbom Investigators:

jimd3100 said:
FBI Los Angeles Investigative Results:

Los Angeles has determined that __________________ may be a potential contact of the hijackers and _________ in Los Angeles. _______________is an administrative officer at the Saudi Consulate in Los Angeles and may have diplomatic status. ______________is also believed to be one of the Imams at the King Fahad mosque. ____________also fits the description, as provided__________ of the individual that _____________met at the Saudi consulate prior to _________________ "chance" meeting with the hijackers at the restaurant. page 4/8
https://web.archive.org/web/2014092...plex.com/2002-09-04-FBI-Fahad-Al-Thumairy.pdf

Filling in the blanks in order:

Fahad al-Thumairy
Bin Attash
Fahad al-Thumairy
Fahad al-Thumairy
Fahad al-Thumairy
Bin Don
Omar al-Bayoumi
Bayoumi's
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If the 28 pages are ever released, The Saudi response will be the same as the CIA's on their "failures", and the Presidents for "protecting" the "good name" of our Saudi "friends". They will disregard and ignore it, because there will be no accountability demanded except from a few unwashed peasants and terror victims.

jimd3100 said:
These Saudi's are not my friend
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They're no friend of the 3000 people killed in the 9-11 attacks either. Or those against Islamic Terrorism.
 
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