Hillary Clinton is Done: part 2

[uke2se]

Dead serious. I can't believe you're not aware of this. And, ironically, you seem to be ignoring male-specific insults and only focusing on female-specific ones. That is, in my book, actual sexism.

It would be, if it was true. Fortunately for me, it isn't, and you won't be able to show me ignoring any male-specific insults. Prove me wrong and I'll apologize and bow out.

As you should have learned by now on this forum, just because you believe something doesn't make it true or obvious for everyone else.

I know that, but I chose to believe that nobody is dumb enough to not realize that 'harpy' is a gendered insult.

You are wrong.

So you say.

Only if one twists the definition of the word "sexist" to mean something entirely different. Using a gender-specfiic insult towards a person of that gender isn't what sexism is.

Not entirely, not. It is sexist, though.

 

[uke2se]

It's good to know two full pages can be devoted to whether or not Hillary Clinton can be accurately described as a "Screeching Harpy", or not.
Personally, I'm on the pro side, but I may be in a minority on that subject.

The argument is actually about whether or not many of Clinton's detractors are in fact sexist, or at least use sexist rhetoric.
Personally, I'm on the pro side, but I may be in a minority on that subject.

 

[Belz...]

It would be, if it was true. Fortunately for me, it isn't, and you won't be able to show me ignoring any male-specific insults. Prove me wrong and I'll apologize and bow out.

I care nothing for apologies. I think they're mostly a waste of time.

I know that, but I chose to believe that nobody is dumb enough to not realize that 'harpy' is a gendered insult.

I didn't say it wasn't gendered. I said that it didn't make it sexist.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

So you say.

Seems like nothing I will say will change your preconceived notion about me. There's a word for that.

This is getting off-topic. I suggest a new thread for this, if you want to continue.

 

[uke2se]

This is getting off-topic. I suggest a new thread for this, if you want to continue.

I don't really see a point. If you are serious, I see nothing productive coming out of that discussion beyond what has already been established.

 

[Belz...]

The argument is actually about whether or not many of Clinton's detractors are in fact sexist

That's a more interesting question, but I think that for every critic of Clinton who is an actual sexist, you have a Clinton supporter who sees sexism in every criticism.

 

[uke2se]

That's a more interesting question, but I think that for every critic of Clinton who is an actual sexist, you have a Clinton supporter who sees sexism in every criticism.

I don't know. You might be right, but I haven't seen any evidence for that. I have seen evidence that people use sexist insults against Clinton.

 

[Belz...]

I don't really see a point. If you are serious, I see nothing productive coming out of that discussion beyond what has already been established.

And if I'm not serious, there is also nothing productive coming out of that discussion, either.

That's very convenient for you, as all possibilities are covered and lead to the same thing! Just like religion!

 

[Belz...]

I don't know. You might be right, but I haven't seen any evidence for that. I have seen evidence that people use sexist insults against Clinton.

Well, using very broad definitions of words will do that for you.

 

[Mike!]

Well, using very broad definitions of words will do that for you.

Sexist.

 

[uke2se]

Well, using very broad definitions of words will do that for you.

You may be of the opinion that using gendered insults isn't sexist, but I would say it is you who are using a too narrow definition if that is the case.

 

[Belz...]

Sexist.

Clearly.

 

[Belz...]

You may be of the opinion that using gendered insults isn't sexist, but I would say it is you who are using a too narrow definition if that is the case.

In French, every insult is gendered because of the way adjectives work. I guess insulting anyone in French is sexist, then.

No dictionary definition of "sexism" that I know of is that broad. SJW definitions, however, are a different matter. Hopefully you're not using one of those.

 

[wareyin]

In French, every insult is gendered because of the way adjectives work. I guess insulting anyone in French is sexist, then.

No dictionary definition of "sexism" that I know of is that broad. SJW definitions, however, are a different matter. Hopefully you're not using one of those.

I think you are not American, so this analogy may not be as clear to you as I would like. If you were to call a black man a n word, and a white man a cracker, you would still be using racist terminology. You would also be using a far more racist term towards the black man because of the history of that word. The same applies with calling a woman a "screeching harpy" vs calling a man a pig. Screeching harpy is a far more sexist term than fat pig, especially as it isn't hard to find examples of women being called fat pigs (Roseanne Barr for example).

 

[uke2se]

In French, every insult is gendered because of the way adjectives work. I guess insulting anyone in French is sexist, then.

That is not true at all. We are talking about language specifically used to describe people of one gender, not grammar.

No dictionary definition of "sexism" that I know of is that broad. SJW definitions, however, are a different matter. Hopefully you're not using one of those.

I've never been called a SJW, and I normally don't get worked up over minor stuff. Nor am I a spoiled millenial on twitter, so I'd say I'm not one.

That said, I would say many gendered insults are sexist, and that it falls into a standard definition of sexist language. It always depends on the Words, though. A word such as Harpy is normally used to pejoratively describe a woman's appearance or demeanor, but never a man's. It is similar in a lot of way to describe a woman as a hen. It's demeaning because it invokes traits that are typically seen as female, such as shrillness, being disorganized and assigned the role of baby making.

But I digress.

Gendered insults and sexism is an interesting topic all by itself, but in today's online climate, I'm fairly certain any discussion about it would soon devolve into accusations of being a 'SJW' and 'feminazi' on the one hand, and 'misogynistic' on the other.

 

[uke2se]

I think you are not American, so this analogy may not be as clear to you as I would like. If you were to call a black man a n word, and a white man a cracker, you would still be using racist terminology. You would also be using a far more racist term towards the black man because of the history of that word. The same applies with calling a woman a "screeching harpy" vs calling a man a pig. Screeching harpy is a far more sexist term than fat pig, especially as it isn't hard to find examples of women being called fat pigs (Roseanne Barr for example).

Maybe it's cultural. I'm looking at this from a Swedish perspective, and to me, arguing that "screeching harpy" isn't sexist looks entirely disingenious, akin to saying the sky isn't blue.

 

[Belz...]

I think you are not American, so this analogy may not be as clear to you as I would like. If you were to call a black man a n word, and a white man a cracker, you would still be using racist terminology. You would also be using a far more racist term towards the black man because of the history of that word. The same applies with calling a woman a "screeching harpy" vs calling a man a pig.

I understand that the n-word is associated with racists, but it's not specifically because it's race-specific but because of its history, especially in the US.

I'm not aware of any such history for "harpy".

Gendered insults and sexism is an interesting topic all by itself, but in today's online climate, I'm fairly certain any discussion about it would soon devolve into accusations of being a 'SJW' and 'feminazi' on the one hand, and 'misogynistic' on the other.

That is certainly true.

 

[wareyin]

I understand that the n-word is associated with racists, but it's not specifically because it's race-specific but because of its history, especially in the US.

I'm not aware of any such history for "harpy".

The highlighted is exactly it. Harpy, and screeching harpy do have such a history, which is why people from many different cultures are telling you that it is a sexist term.

eta: To be clear, harpy is sexist not specifically because it is gender-specific, but because of the history of the use of that word.

 

[Belz...]

The highlighted is exactly it. Harpy, and screeching harpy do have such a history, which is why people from many different cultures are telling you that it is a sexist term.

eta: To be clear, harpy is sexist not specifically because it is gender-specific, but because of the history of the use of that word.

I suspect that there's a difference, however, in that the n-word refered to all black people and was used as a derogatory term for all of them, whereas to the best of my knowledge harpy is directed at specific individuals, and isn't meant to describe or denigrate half of humanity.

 

[wareyin]

I suspect that there's a difference, however, in that the n-word refered to all black people and was used as a derogatory term for all of them, whereas to the best of my knowledge harpy is directed at specific individuals, and isn't meant to describe or denigrate half of humanity.

Calling a specific person by the n-word, rather than all black people, is still racist. Calling a specific woman a "screeching harpy", rather than all women, is still sexist.

 

[Belz...]

Calling a specific person by the n-word, rather than all black people, is still racist. Calling a specific woman a "screeching harpy", rather than all women, is still sexist.

Again: because the word was used to mean all black people, even if you're using it on a specific black person.