Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[lobosrul]

Nope. I'm saying that wanting socialized medicine by itself isn't particularly left wing. It's actually pretty centrist. I think anybody in their right mind should realize that if the government is paying MORE for health care as things are than countries that have socialized medicine -- umm -- it's pretty much a no-brainer and shouldn't depend upon your overall political philosophy.

Yup. I remember hearing horror stories about how terrible socialized healthcare was, rationalized care etc, and that was the argument against it. Now that we live in such a globalized world with easy communication across the Atlantic, its obviously not true. Now the argument has become: sure it works in Europe but not over here... cause 'umm 'merica!?

 

[lobosrul]

Ok, please explain how Obama could have got left wing things accomplished in the United States. Or how Bernie Sanders could if by some miracle he wins.

He't not saying that. He's saying just wanting socialized healthcare shouldn't make one left-wing anymore.

 

[Manopolus]

Ok, please explain how Obama could have got left wing things accomplished in the United States. Or how Bernie Sanders could if by some miracle he wins.

Well, first off he could actually suggest some left-wing things or at least use them as a campaign platform -- he hasn't. He's mostly been a centrist.

 

[Tony Stark]

Well, first of he could actually suggest some left-wing things -- he hasn't.

Like what? And how exactly would he get those things past Congress? Which Republicans are going to vote in favor of the True Progressive agenda with Obama as President? Or Bernie Sanders? Or Hillary Clinton?

 

[Manopolus]

Like what? And how exactly would he get those things past Congress? Which Republicans are going to vote in favor of the True Progressive agenda with Obama as President? Or Bernie Sanders? Or Hillary Clinton?

Whichever ones whose constituency demands it. The bully pulpit sets the dialogue. Roosevelt wasn't able to do the things he did because congress automatically agreed with everything he suggested by a long shot. He got it done by appealing to the people first.

 

[Tony Stark]

Whichever ones whose constituency demands it.

So none of them? Their moron voters think they let Obama walk all over them as it is.

 

[Manopolus]

So none of them? Their moron voters think they let Obama walk all over them as it is.

Well, perhaps we need a better message then. That means starting with fixing those things that the overall population thinks are severely wrong and getting them excited about it.

 

[Tony Stark]

Well, perhaps we need a better message then.

Maybe. Propaganda is one thing that Republicans are good at. Though it has got entirely out of their control. See: Donald Trump.

 

[Manopolus]

Maybe. Propaganda is one thing that Republicans are good at. Though it has got entirely out of their control. See: Donald Trump.

Obviously. Yes, it's unfortunate that huge lies are more believable than small ones (there's a Hitler quote in there somewhere). The truth is still the most believable of them all though.

 

[luchog]

Ok, please explain how Obama could have got left wing things accomplished in the United States. Or how Bernie Sanders could if by some miracle he wins.

Obama was saddled with a GOP-dominated congress.

What a lot of the "Bernie Can't Do Anything" crowd fails to realize is that a third of the Senate, and all of the House, is also up for replacement in the next election. Given enough motivation from the voters on the left, that's enough to shift the balance of power back over to the Democrat side. The trick is getting them out and voting. Typically, as has been noted, the right votes more actively and consistently than the left, and roughly 40% of registered voters actually vote in congressional elections.

It would not take much of the "lost tribe" on the left actually getting off their butts and voting to make a huge difference in the political spectrum of the federal government. A large part of Bernie's message has been for supporters to go out and vote in the smaller elections as well, to ensure that liberals are elected to the congressional offices.

 

[Tony Stark]

Obama was saddled with a GOP-dominated congress.

What a lot of the "Bernie Can't Do Anything" crowd fails to realize is that a third of the Senate, and all of the House, is also up for replacement in the next election. Given enough motivation from the voters on the left, that's enough to shift the balance of power back over to the Democrat side. The trick is getting them out and voting. Typically, as has been noted, the right votes more actively and consistently than the left, and roughly 40% of registered voters actually vote in congressional elections.

It would not take much of the "lost tribe" on the left actually getting off their butts and voting to make a huge difference in the political spectrum of the federal government. A large part of Bernie's message has been for supporters to go out and vote in the smaller elections as well, to ensure that liberals are elected to the congressional offices.

I agree. For there to be change that the left wants, we have to fire lots and lots of Republicans. I always vote and never vote for Republicans. Though many complete fools "think" that not voting or voting third party is somehow a good strategy.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

But his Veep was.

touché

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Obama was saddled with a GOP-dominated congress.

What a lot of the "Bernie Can't Do Anything" crowd fails to realize is that a third of the Senate, and all of the House, is also up for replacement in the next election. Given enough motivation from the voters on the left, that's enough to shift the balance of power back over to the Democrat side. The trick is getting them out and voting. ....

A trick which has failed to effect said motivation to materialize.

Being in the Bernie won't be able to get his goals accomplished crowd, I can say it's not that we aren't aware of the potential to change the Congress. I do hope we at least do better in the Senate. But the House won't change until you clear out the gerrymandering.

 

[Garrison]

Obama was saddled with a GOP-dominated congress.

What a lot of the "Bernie Can't Do Anything" crowd fails to realize is that a third of the Senate, and all of the House, is also up for replacement in the next election. Given enough motivation from the voters on the left, that's enough to shift the balance of power back over to the Democrat side. The trick is getting them out and voting.

But what if those potential Democratic representatives don't meet the ideological standards Sanders supporters demand? Should they then compromise to give Sanders the majority he needs?

 

[wareyin]

He just won the Democrats abroad vote by a margin of 69% to 31%. Let's not make assumptions until we see the results, particularly with a major campaign event including the 5 remaining candidates happening tonight. We'll finally see opposing parties' candidates in one forum, although it won't be in a debate format per se.

And with that stunning victory, Sanders is now behind by only 321 delegates! Too bad he can only win big in places with small numbers of delegates, as this gives him still virtually no chance to win the nomination.

It's pretty obvious that every major poll excluding people that didn't vote in 2012 skews them towards Clinton, so don't bother giving me polling nonsense. The most meaningful measure of who will win is how many people show up. If it's a significant number more than usual, it will tend to be a Sanders win.

It's pretty obvious that aside from Michigan, the polls you've claimed are skewed have been pretty good at predicting the winners. Just because they aren't predicting a Sanders win, however, does not make them skewed.

 

[Tony Stark]

This skewed polls nonsense reminds me of 2012 when the Republicans convinced themselves that the polls predicting Obama's reelection were skewed, and then "unskewed" them so they could convince themselves that Romney would win. That was some funny ****. I don't find it funny that lots of people on the left think like this too though.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This skewed polls nonsense reminds me of 2012 when the Republicans convinced themselves that the polls predicting Obama's reelection were skewed, and then "unskewed" them so they could convince themselves that Romney would win. That was some funny ****. I don't find it funny that lots of people on the left think like this too though.

For extra giggles, consider that the polls showing Hillary beating Bernie are skewed, while the polls showing Bernie beating Trump aren't.

 

[The Big Dog]

For extra giggles, consider that the polls showing Hillary beating Bernie are skewed, while the polls showing Bernie beating Trump aren't.

wait.... do those polls also show Hillary beating Trump? And if so, do you accept that aspect of the poll? and if so, isn't your snarky little smart-ass comment completely misplaced?

protip: answer to all three is Yes.

cool post otherwise, tho.

 

[Tony Stark]

wait.... do those polls also show Hillary beating Trump? And if so, do you accept that aspect of the poll? and if so, isn't your snarky little smart-ass comment completely misplaced?

protip: answer to all three is Yes.

cool post otherwise, tho.

He's not the one saying that the polls are skewed but only so when it is what he wants to believe.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

He's not the one saying that the polls are skewed but only so when it is what he wants to believe.

Yeah. I didn't think it would be that hard for someone to figure out, especially on a skeptics forum.