Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Antony]

...

If such conspiratorial thinking is anywhere near the mark, it still makes Massei an immoral toady, to convict people he thought were innocent.

Actually I think belief in factual guilt, from police and judiciary, is beside the point - in that they exist in a different universe where judicial "truth" becomes a substitute for objective truth. So the whole dysfunctional behemoth trundles ahead in its parallel reality.

Whether or not Massei believed that A & R were guilty, he still failed to do his job as a judge. Of course, the ideal now that this travesty is over is for all of the official figures who betrayed justice to be held to account. But of course that is unlikely to happen, just as it doesn't happen in the UK or the US, where miscarriages of justice don't become the kind of circus that happened in this case.

 

[acbytesla]

Actually I think belief in factual guilt, from police and judiciary, is beside the point - in that they exist in a different universe where judicial "truth" becomes a substitute for objective truth. So the whole dysfunctional behemoth trundles ahead in its parallel reality.

Whether or not Massei believed that A & R were guilty, he still failed to do his job as a judge. Of course, the ideal now that this travesty is over is for all of the official figures who betrayed justice to be held to account. But of course that is unlikely to happen, just as it doesn't happen in the UK or the US, where miscarriages of justice don't become the kind of circus that happened in this case.

It does happen in the US, but that is definitely the exception and not the rule.

 

[Bill Williams]

Actually I think belief in factual guilt, from police and judiciary, is beside the point - in that they exist in a different universe where judicial "truth" becomes a substitute for objective truth. So the whole dysfunctional behemoth trundles ahead in its parallel reality.

Whether or not Massei believed that A & R were guilty, he still failed to do his job as a judge. Of course, the ideal now that this travesty is over is for all of the official figures who betrayed justice to be held to account. But of course that is unlikely to happen, just as it doesn't happen in the UK or the US, where miscarriages of justice don't become the kind of circus that happened in this case.

A point similar to this was made in a 2007 Canadian study on wrongful convictions. At any one point in the processes which they examined in known cases of wrongful conviction, at any one step people simply assumed that those below them acted in good faith, so why would I at this step upset the applecart? They must have had good reason to advance things so as to get to my desk?

Besides, if I am wrong and simply doing have enough global view to see a wrongful conviction, certainly someone up the chain will spot it, so I'll simply endorse it and push it ahead.

And..... it does happen in the UK and the US. There was a recent Dateline program on America's ABC network on wrongful convictions. They cited a UK detective who was instrumental in overhauling interrogations in the UK, to stop false confessions.

Incredibly he said that the easiest way to spot a false confession was that they did not fit into the evidentiary footprint of the case. The program was based on a Virginia man who'd falsely confessed to a murder - and when they played back the mandatory video, it was clear that the interrogating officer brought all the material into the setting, fed it to the man then got him to agree to what, "the police already knew".

 

[Vixen]

Vixen do you really believe that reading Manga changes people in to psychopaths? Or do you believe that only psychopaths read Manga? I have never listened to Marilyn Manson knowingly but I thought it was only significant if you listened to the music played backwards?

Both Managa and Marilyn Manson sell millions. They are mainstream just go into HMV. Manga is no more violent than Buffy or Batman. Definitely less so than GTA.

Manga simply refers to a Japanese art form, known as anime. Adherents insist they are not "comics" but graphical books.

Just like with Western media, anime includes hardcore porn and violence.

If you are not aware of Marilyn Manson's connection with Columbine or of the effect of popular culture on gullible people, check out copy-cat Scream murders, copy-cat Dark Knight and Cho of Virginia Tech.

Also, do look up Anders Brevik, who had an obsession with the Crusaders.

 

[acbytesla]

A point similar to this was made in a 2007 Canadian study on wrongful convictions. At any one point in the processes which they examined in known cases of wrongful conviction, at any one step people simply assumed that those below them acted in good faith, so why would I at this step upset the applecart? They must have had good reason to advance things so as to get to my desk?

Besides, if I am wrong and simply doing have enough global view to see a wrongful conviction, certainly someone up the chain will spot it, so I'll simply endorse it and push it ahead.

And..... it does happen in the UK and the US. There was a recent Dateline program on America's ABC network on wrongful convictions. They cited a UK detective who was instrumental in overhauling interrogations in the UK, to stop false confessions.

Incredibly he said that the easiest way to spot a false confession was that they did not fit into the evidentiary footprint of the case. The program was based on a Virginia man who'd falsely confessed to a murder - and when they played back the mandatory video, it was clear that the interrogating officer brought all the material into the setting, fed it to the man then got him to agree to what, "the police already knew".

Now where have we seen this before?

I am constantly flabbergasted by the police and prosecution who go miles out of their way to come up with this bizarre 3 way sex murder when it's obvious it's a burglary gone wrong.

Mundane just won't do.

 

[Vixen]

She in all likelihood doesn't believe Manga turns people into psychopaths. That would be ridiculous, as not everyone in Japan is a psychopath.

What she does believe, and is the overarching worldview that is the basis for her entire life, is that Amanda and Raffaele killed Meredith. Therefore, she has to reason backwards and construct a scenario by finding patterns that are consistent with Amanda and Raffaele being violent people. Since there is no actual evidence of this, and she needs to find a motive that makes sense, she creates a fantasy in her mind that Raffaele's Manga and knife collection implies he is into vampire slaying occult fantasies. Boom we have a motive.

Unfortunately none of this is actually consistent with any physical evidence of the crime. But no top-in-their-field world renowned forensic geneticists like Gill, Hampikian, Moore (etc. etc. etc. etc etc.) is going to convince our Vixen. She has evidence that they were all paid off by the Amanda Knox PR supertanker. But she can't reveal her source, of course.

Not my theory. The police and prosecutor's theory. They described Raff as "icy cold". You might have noticed something appears to be missing in both Raff and Amanda: empathy.

 

[acbytesla]

Manga simply refers to a Japanese art form, known as anime. Adherents insist they are not "comics" but graphical books.

Just like with Western media, anime includes hardcore porn and violence.

If you are not aware of Marilyn Manson's connection with Columbine or of the effect of popular culture on gullible people, check out copy-cat Scream murders, copy-cat Dark Knight and Cho of Virginia Tech.

Also, do look up Anders Brevik, who had an obsession with the Crusaders.

Yet lots of people who are perfectly normal like Marilyn Manson, horror books and movies.

It's a stretch Vixen and the evidence doesn't support it.

 

[acbytesla]

Not my theory. The police and prosecutor's theory. They described Raff as "icy cold". You might have noticed something appears to be missing in both Raff and Amanda: empathy.

How convenient,. Never mind that no one else who knows either of them describe them that way. In fact people who know Amanda describe her as kind, caring, goofy. "One of the nicest persons I know" said Judge Heavey's daughter. "Willing to help anyone in need" said Madison Paxton. Became very close with the priest at the prison and contihues to exchange letters with him.

Hmm mm makes you wonder.

 

[Vixen]

Yet lots of people who are perfectly normal like Marilyn Manson, horror books and movies.

It's a stretch Vixen and the evidence doesn't support it.

You are either being obtuse (most likely) or simply unable to grasp that there are psychologically damaged people who will act out fantasies of sex and violence. Both Raff and Amanda had strong anti-social fantasies before the murder. That's not to say everyone who fantasises acts them out. However, get two - or three - unstable sociopaths together (cf Venables and Thompson; Leopold & Leob, Bonnie and Clyde, Klebold and Harris, the Manson Family) and one acts as as the catalyst to the other.

 

[Vixen]

How convenient,. Never mind that no one else who knows either of them describe them that way. In fact people who know Amanda describe her as kind, caring, goofy. "One of the nicest persons I know" said Judge Heavey's daughter. "Willing to help anyone in need" said Madison Paxton. Became very close with the priest at the prison and contihues to exchange letters with him.

Hmm mm makes you wonder.

Wasn't Judge Heavey sacked for improperly using judiciary-headed note paper in an attempt to use his persuasiveness (= lawyerspeak for "liar") on influential people, claiming Amanda's innocence was based on his daughter going to the same school?

Heck, I heard of some guy living nearby me going to the same school as the infamous English poisoner, Graham Young. As this guy is decent and upright, does it mean Young must be innocent?

That prison chaplain priest gets to meet many of Italy's worst criminals. Hey, that's his job.

 

[Bill Williams]

Wasn't Judge Heavey sacked for improperly using judiciary-headed note paper in an attempt to use his persuasiveness (= lawyerspeak for "liar") on influential people, claiming Amanda's innocence was based on his daughter going to the same school?

If Vixen told the truth her face would fall off. Judge Heavey informed his superiors he had used official letterhead, a technical breach. They reprimanded him, and the sanction amounted to nothing.

It is amazing that you would tell lies like this, while praising the police/prosecutors in Perugia. One cop cited for using police material against her ex-husband, Mignini cited for abuse of office, and cleared. Copswho brought a defamation charge against Knox have that charge deemed unproven at trial.

Your posts give a free pass to the Perugians while you tell lies about people like Judge Heavey.

 

[acbytesla]

You are either being obtuse (most likely) or simply unable to grasp that there are psychologically damaged people who will act out fantasies of sex and violence. Both Raff and Amanda had strong anti-social fantasies before the murder. That's not to say everyone who fantasises acts them out. However, get two - or three - unstable sociopaths together (cf Venables and Thompson; Leopold & Leob, Bonnie and Clyde, Klebold and Harris, the Manson Family) and one acts as as the catalyst to the other.

No, you are being obtuse. There is no evidence of any violent behavior in either Amanda"s or Raffaele's background. So your conclusion is absurd. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Interesting thatAmanda met Raffaele not at a Marilyn Manson concert, but a classical concert.
Neither Amanda or Raffaele were disaffected loners. They were perfectly adjusted 20 year olds. Amanda was having the time of her life.

 

[Vixen]

If Vixen told the truth her face would fall off. Judge Heavey informed his superiors he had used official letterhead, a technical breach. They reprimanded him, and the sanction amounted to nothing.

It is amazing that you would tell lies like this, while praising the police/prosecutors in Perugia. One cop cited for using police material against her ex-husband, Mignini cited for abuse of office, and cleared. Copswho brought a defamation charge against Knox have that charge deemed unproven at trial.

Your posts give a free pass to the Perugians while you tell lies about people like Judge Heavey.

OK, fair enough. Thanks for the correction. Judge Heavey was reprimanded for improperly using judicial headed paper.

When Mignini was censured recently, you were crowing.

 

[Vixen]

No, you are being obtuse. There is no evidence of any violent behavior in either Amanda"s or Raffaele's background. So your conclusion is absurd. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Interesting thatAmanda met Raffaele not at a Marilyn Manson concert, but a classical concert.
Neither Amanda or Raffaele were disaffected loners. They were perfectly adjusted 20 year olds. Amanda was having the time of her life.

LOL. You certainly have a GSOH.

 

[acbytesla]

LOL. You certainly have a GSOH.

I'm not sure what's humorous about it. Raffaele likes Manga.?so what? So interesting that they watched Amelie that night. They watch a very sweet romantic comedy. Yea, I can see the link to violent crime.

 

[Samzilla]

I guess the answer, Vixen, is to get rid of music, comics, and movie (let's throw video games in there too). As we all know, violence crime did not exist before any of these.

 

[Vixen]

I'm not sure what's humorous about it. Raffaele likes Manga.?so what? So interesting that they watched Amelie that night. They watch a very sweet romantic comedy. Yea, I can see the link to violent crime.

ROFL.

 

[acbytesla]

LOL. You certainly have a GSOH.

There's a big difference between us Vixen. I follow the trail of evidence. I don't blaze my own way. I don't assume that someone who likes Marilyn Manson and owns a couple of knives is Jack the Rjpper. That one thing sometimes follows another does not mean there is a link between the two. Your case is built entirely on fabrications and wild speculations.

Whereas blind morons could follow the trail to Rudy. I gjved you the Perugian police.

 

[acbytesla]

I guess the answer, Vixen, is to get rid of music, comics, and movie (let's throw video games in there too). As we all know, violence crime did not exist before any of these.

I've read Thomas Harris, Stephen King George and Anne Rule. Guess I'm doomed to be a serial killer.

 

[Vixen]

I've read Thomas Harris, Stephen King George and Anne Rule. Guess I'm doomed to be a serial killer.

Perhaps the phenomenon of people hero-worshipping notorious criminals (Manson, Ronnie Biggs, Al Capone, Columbine killers) can be thus explained.

It could be murderer groupies latch onto their heroes for doing something they fantasise about, i.e., act out the groupies' own aggressive anti-authority impulses.

Stephen King is more supernatural horror.