Ed Should Australia change its flag?

[Norman Alexander]

Yes.
I was amazed that Australia went for a century without having her national colors on her flag.

There were no official colours until 1983. The flag as we have it currently was the result of a national competition about the time of Federation in 1901. And at that time Australia was VERY pro-England, red-white-and-blue. That's the UK Union Jack in the top-left of our flag...

 

[Norman Alexander]

Also.

What's with the big Jesus star?

Eureka flag?

 

[Norman Alexander]

Don't forget that Australia had a "mean and tricky" monarchist for a PM at the time and made sure that the model that got put to a vote would be too controversial to pass.

There are two types of models that could pass a referendum:

1. The McGarvie model - one in which the Queen is replaced by a constitutional council and the GG is called the "President" but nothing else is changed.
2. One in which the President is elected by the voters and has some powers which he could legitimately exercise autonomously.

I personally would like to see the PM abolished and the President head the executive like is done in the US but politicians are averse to reforming a system that hands them power.

Put more broadly, he borked the question.

The referendum question SHOULD have been: Do you agree that Australia should have an Australian citizen as head of state? Yes or No.

What the Howard referendum ACTUALLY asked was: Do you want to remain a monarchy under the English Queen, or have some skewed and unpopular republican model that was discarded by the cross-party Republican Convention held only weeks previously? Pick one.

What was exceedingly clear was that Howard had taken legal advice from pro-monarchists as to how to frame the question to get the "right" answer.

 

[psionl0]

What was exceedingly clear was that Howard had taken legal advice from pro-monarchists as to how to frame the question to get the "right" answer.

He did a lot more than that. He stacked the republican convention with monarchists whose mission was to sabotage the debate. The convention couldn't come up with a resolution as a result but Howard put the model with the most votes (thanks to the monarchists) to a referendum knowing that it would be defeated. This ensured that it would be decades before a republic would be considered again.

Of course, Malcolm Turnbull didn't do anybody any favours by refusing to consider an elected president.

 

[mumblethrax]

The answer is yes. The answer is almost always yes. There are, like, three countries in the world that have decent flags.

"Who gives a ****" is also an acceptable--and maybe the best--answer. That having been said: yes.

 

[Kid Eager]

Ugly ugly hideous flag options upthread. No thank you.

 

[cullennz]

Ugly ugly hideous flag options upthread. No thank you.

You need a big cute chubby Koala

Waving to help tourism

 

[devnull]

It's the usual right wing trick whenever this comes to a head.

Theyll field a bunch of crappy designs, and when people respond with "none of the above", theyll say "see! Aussies dont want to be a republic!"

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[The Atheist]

Jesus H Christ; is there nothing you guys won't steal off us?

We elect a Wall St banker to Boss; Aussie elects his protege to Boss.

We get rid of the ugly Pommy crap in the corner, so you just have to start talking about following us.

Australia: get a life!

 

[Damien Evans]

Don't forget that Australia had a "mean and tricky" monarchist for a PM at the time and made sure that the model that got put to a vote would be too controversial to pass.

There are two types of models that could pass a referendum:

1. The McGarvie model - one in which the Queen is replaced by a constitutional council and the GG is called the "President" but nothing else is changed.
2. One in which the President is elected by the voters and has some powers which he could legitimately exercise autonomously.

I personally would like to see the PM abolished and the President head the executive like is done in the US but politicians are averse to reforming a system that hands them power.

The first I could cope with. What you want would be an absolute disaster, why on earth would you copy the worst electoral system in the western world?

 

[Damien Evans]

He did a lot more than that. He stacked the republican convention with monarchists whose mission was to sabotage the debate. The convention couldn't come up with a resolution as a result but Howard put the model with the most votes (thanks to the monarchists) to a referendum knowing that it would be defeated. This ensured that it would be decades before a republic would be considered again.

Of course, Malcolm Turnbull didn't do anybody any favours by refusing to consider an elected president.

Incorrect. He did everyone a favour. The last thing Australians want to do is have to vote for an office which should be effectively meaningless outside of dire circumstances, as the GG currently is.

 

[cullennz]

Let us kiwis chose one for you.

You know we would'nt take the piss

 

[Roger Ramjets]

As I said in the New Zealand thread, I am amazed that there are countries that don't have their national color(s) on their flags.

Because there's an unwritten rule that says a country's 'national colors' must be on their flag, right? But what about the national bird, or the national sport, or the national emblem, or... Shouldn't they all be on the flag?

 

[psionl0]

The first I could cope with. What you want would be an absolute disaster, why on earth would you copy the worst electoral system in the western world?

You are only saying that because the word "American" appears in it somewhere.

There are plenty of worse systems around. Eg Russia. Even NZ with its unicameral parliamentary system gives its PM too much power.

Incorrect. He did everyone a favour. The last thing Australians want to do is have to vote for an office which should be effectively meaningless outside of dire circumstances, as the GG currently is.

I wouldn't have pegged you for a monarchist. Why is it better for the PM to be appointed (and removed) at the whim of politicians?

 

[angrysoba]

arthwollipot, I approve of this poll!

 

[Damien Evans]

You are only saying that because the word "American" appears in it somewhere.

There are plenty of worse systems around. Eg Russia. Even NZ with its unicameral parliamentary system gives its PM too much power.


I wouldn't have pegged you for a monarchist. Why is it better for the PM to be appointed (and removed) at the whim of politicians?

I'd love to know when Russia became part of the western world.

New Zealand may have a unicaramel system, but at least they're not campaigning 24/7/365 and spending billions on it when the election's still 10 months away. A more ridiculous way to piss money down the drain would be hard to come up with. And that's not even getting into the dogs breakfast of a voting system they have over there, with that ridiculous electoral college and everyone in congress gerrymandering away to their hearts content.

As the leader of a political party, the head of government should be responsible to that party and should be able to be removed as head by that party if he is not performing up to standard or is not working in that parties best interests.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

You might as well change it to the Danish flag. Since one of your Sheilas decided to marry our Crown Prince he will automatically become King of Australia, eventually.

 

[psionl0]

I'd love to know when Russia became part of the western world.

After the fall of the Berlin wall. The problem is that Putin was able to move it away again and set himself up as dictator for life. Do you think that would be possible under a more American system?

New Zealand may have a unicaramel system, but at least they're not campaigning 24/7/365 and spending billions on it when the election's still 10 months away.

Irrelevant.

I HATE AMERICA!!!

ftfy.

As the leader of a political party, the head of government should be responsible to that party and should be able to be removed as head by that party if he is not performing up to standard or is not working in that parties best interests.

So the interests of the party outweigh the interests of the public. Got it.

 

[Damien Evans]

I can see it is pointless to continue responding to you, you clearly have no interest in a polite discussion.

 

[Pulvinar]

You might as well change it to the Danish flag. Since one of your Sheilas decided to marry our Crown Prince he will automatically become King of Australia, eventually.

Humm... Something is aussie in the state of Denmark.