Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Erratum: that should read 2014, not 2015.

Soz, it was 2015.

(It was the American date style of 7/1/2015 that threw me and made me think it was pre-Bruno-Marasca.)

 

[Wattson]

Yes I've been to Italy numerous times. Can you tell us the word for bar in Italian that describes what we call a bar? Do you know what the original said?

It is also possible they met at lunch sat in a cafe/bar ate a bite and discussed the case.

Somehow we found plenty of places to sit and have coffee as well as small bites.

Perhaps you should use Google images and see bars in Perugia. Maybe things have changed since you and your partner Mr. Holmes solved crimes there.

Typically, Italians don't sit down for their coffee... but many tourists do. Taverna would be the term I would use. The simple point is, the term bar in Italy would be considered different than what North Americans consider a bar.

 

[Vixen]

I'll supply them when you do.


Many people are morons. Ever see what happens to any concrete block when the compression capacity is exceeded? Apparently not.

This was steel and glass and there was a two-hour Panorama BBC tv programme about it.

I take it Chieffi made no such "nutjob" 911 claims, as you you refuse to back up your slur designed to diminish Chieffi's reputation in the eyes of the forum readers.

 

[acbytesla]

This was steel and glass and there was a two-hour Panorama BBC tv programme about it.

I take it Chieffi made no such "nutjob" 911 claims, as you you refuse to back up your slur designed to diminish Chieffi's reputation in the eyes of the forum readers.

Ok, it wasn't Chieffi, only a member of that CSC Chieffi panel Ferdinando Imposimato.

 

[Grinder]

Typically, Italians don't sit down for their coffee... but many tourists do. Taverna would be the term I would use. The simple point is, the term bar in Italy would be considered different than what North Americans consider a bar.

And unless we know the original Italian we have no idea of whether bar was correct of if it should have been translated cafe or coffee bar.

If you wish to believe they were contending C&V were having a coffee after the hearing and Maori et al. were just having a coffee feel free.

Are you Italian? Look at the images of bars in Perugia.

 

[Vixen]

Ok, it wasn't Chieffi, only a member of that CSC Chieffi panel Ferdinando Imposimato.

From wiki re Ferdinando Imposimato: He believes that the FBI was aware of the presence of the 9/11 terrorists in the United States but did not alert the CIA.
His resume reads:

He graduated in law at the University of Naples in 1959. After becoming police vice-commissar, he worked in Brescia and then in Forlì. After one year in Rome as a functionary of the Ministry of Treasury, he become a magistrate in 1964.

During his career as prosecutor, Imposimato was in charge of investigation for the kidnapping of Aldo Moro, Mehmet Ali Ağca's attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II, the assassination of banker Michele Sindona, and several Mafia trials. In 1981 he was in charge of the trial against the Banda della Magliana. Two years later, his brother Franco was killed in revenge and, after endless menaces against his family from organized crime, he left his work as judge in 1986, working as United Nations consultant against the drugs market. He also dealt with violations of human rights in South America.

In 1987 Imposimato was elected to the Italian Senate[verification needed]. In 1992 he was re-elected to the Chamber of Deputies. He was a member of the Parliamentary Anti-Mafia Commission in three consecutive legislatures.

Given his wide ranging experience, his opinion might have more weight than yours? In any case, if the worst criticism you can make of Chieffi is that one of his panel of judges once said: He believes that the FBI was aware of the presence of the 9/11 terrorists in the United States but did not alert the CIA., shows it to be a compliment to Chieffi, that after trawling through every last detail of the First Chambers, the worst you could find was some mild opinion of the sort someone might voice down the pub.

 

[acbytesla]

This was steel and glass and there was a two-hour Panorama BBC tv programme about it.

I take it Chieffi made no such "nutjob" 911 claims, as you you refuse to back up your slur designed to diminish Chieffi's reputation in the eyes of the forum readers.

Those concrete floors pancaking onto each other caused such compressive forces that I bet the air itself was more than enough force to cause those windows to violently explode outward. FYI, the glass on the outside of hi rise towers are designed to shatter into the tiniest pieces.

 

[acbytesla]

From wiki re Ferdinando Imposimato: He believes that the FBI was aware of the presence of the 9/11 terrorists in the United States but did not alert the CIA.
His resume reads:


Given his wide ranging experience, his opinion might have more weight than yours? In any case, if the worst criticism you can make of Chieffi is that one of his panel of judges once said: He believes that the FBI was aware of the presence of the 9/11 terrorists in the United States but did not alert the CIA., shows it to be a compliment to Chieffi, that after trawling through every last detail of the First Chambers, the worst you could find was some mild opinion of the sort someone might voice down the pub.

He went much further than that suggesting that 911 was a false flag operation.

 

[Vixen]

And unless we know the original Italian we have no idea of whether bar was correct of if it should have been translated cafe or coffee bar.

If you wish to believe they were contending C&V were having a coffee after the hearing and Maori et al. were just having a coffee feel free.

Are you Italian? Look at the images of bars in Perugia.

In any case, the claims Mignini makes about Vechhiotti and Conti are far more serious than the already serious issue of tampering with witnesses:

[6] In the course of the proceedings there had been two experts nominated [by the Court] who, amongst other things, had submitted their report ignoring the documents attesting to the negative result of controls on the presumed contamination of the knife and of the bra-clasp, documents adduced instead by the Public Prosecutor. This should have entailed the sweeping away of [=the complete rejection of] the same expert report but the Court, presided by Pratillo Hellmann, with Advisor-Recorder Dr Massimo Zanetti, had ignored the grave error committed by the experts, an error which had been severely censured by the [Chieffi] Court of Cassation, First Criminal Chamber, in the decision handed down on 26 March 2013…

Investigation of Conti and Vecchiotti is also proceeding. They seem to have been bent and to have lied to the court - either that or remarkably incompetent. There is another quote strongly suggesting they were bent below.

[7] [Judge Chieffi] accepted almost all the grounds of appeals put forward by the Prosecutor-General and had annulled completely and definitively the acquittal decision, with remission (evidently upholding the grounds of appeal) to the Court of Assizes Court of Appeal of Florence which, in its turn, had fully confirmed the convictions of the Court of Assizes of Perugia.

Source: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...across_bows_of_fifth_chambers_could_be_cause/

You can say you reject the source, but the above is a summary of the direct quotes from Mignini's particulars against Maori.

 

[Matthew Best]

Imposimato is a 9/11 truther and therefore an idiot. Anyone who thinks the towers "imploded" is also an idiot. The fact that such people also believe Knox & Sollecito are guilty is, I'm sure, a coincidence.

 

[Vixen]

He went much further than that suggesting that 911 was a false flag operation.

Having reservations about some of the events of 911 does not make someone a "nut job". Lots of ordinary people were asking questions. It was a need to understand.

Imposimato (_Sp?) having had years of aggro with the mafia, probably does have a good grasp of how intelligence works.

 

[acbytesla]

Having reservations about some of the events of 911 does not make someone a "nut job". Lots of ordinary people were asking questions. It was a need to understand.

Imposimato (_Sp?) having had years of aggro with the mafia, probably does have a good grasp of how intelligence works.

No, he's a senile old nutjob who belongs in an institution and not on the bench.

 

[LondonJohn]

In any case, the claims Mignini makes about Vechhiotti and Conti are far more serious than the already serious issue of tampering with witnesses:



Source: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...across_bows_of_fifth_chambers_could_be_cause/

You can say you reject the source, but the above is a summary of the direct quotes from Mignini's particulars against Maori.

1) I reject the source. Particularly the risible paragraph of "commentary" in the middle there

2) As you have been told, these are Mignini's allegations. Nothing more. Some of them are just plain nonsense (e.g. the stuff about negative controls, which, if you knew anything about that issue, you'd know are both a farce and a pack of lies from many, notably Comodi and Stefanoni), and the rest are trumped-up, anhydrous rubbish from a wounded and desperate-to-salvage-his-reputation maniac.

 

[LondonJohn]

He went much further than that suggesting that 911 was a false flag operation.

Yes. But let's stick to a discussion of Italian SC justices (and how one might evaluate their intellect and suitability to pass judgement on serious criminal cases based on their crackpot opinions on 9/11) rather than getting into the nitty-gritty of the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense itself. Because taking things in that direction will, without a shadow of a doubt, be deemed off-topic and removed.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. But let's stick to a discussion of Italian SC justices (and how one might evaluate their intellect and suitability to pass judgement on serious criminal cases based on their crackpot opinions on 9/11) rather than getting into the nitty-gritty of the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense itself. Because taking things in that direction will, without a shadow of a doubt, be deemed off-topic and removed.

Fair enough. But this justice is an example of the morons who said no to Hellman.

 

[Mike1711]

FYI: The engineering infrastructure was such that one of the towers collapsed in on itself, as though dynamite had been applied to it, but actually it was a design fault of the building.

Please show the citation that proves "Chieffi is a 911 nutjob".

Nonsense. The buildings were unclad structural steel structures which unlike reinforced concrete buildings are more vulnerable to fire.

There was no design fault.

 

[Mike1711]

I cannot see any similarity between the negligent - at best - Sepp Blatter and the successful PM Mignini. You do know Maori is accused of improperly giving a press interview piling on libel upon libel on the investigators and lo and behold, this is the main header of Bruno-Marasca's reasons for acquittal, the other being press attention, which again Maori piled false allegation upon false allegation that the press helped "railroad Foxy Knoxy", one of the biggest hoaxes of the century.

The prosecution was refused a hearing by Bruno-Marasca, yet Avv Bongiorno and Velladova were allowed days of Maori-style calumnies.

Pretty normal appeal court procedure (your gross exaggerations aside). When the defence appeals a case, the appeal judges would like to hear the defences' arguments in detail. Unlike the Nencini circus, the B/M engaged, listened, and applied sound logi and gave a rational response.

Of course that the prosecution were denied an audience is pure fabrication, once more.

It's not the time that wins an appeal. It's having the evidence on your side that does.

 

[Vixen]

Pretty normal appeal court procedure (your gross exaggerations aside). When the defence appeals a case, the appeal judges would like to hear the defences' arguments in detail. Unlike the Nencini circus, the B/M engaged, listened, and applied sound logi and gave a rational response.

Of course that the prosecution were denied an audience is pure fabrication, once more.

It's not the time that wins an appeal. It's having the evidence on your side that does.

That's just sophistry. The parties were told at the start they would have an equal twenty minutes each to present their submissions. The hearing was listed for two days.

This was extended by two days, to give Avv Bongiorno a whole further two days, not advised in advance; they just allowed it.

One would have hoped that an expert in Dutch and Roman Law in South Africa would be aware of the convention of giving all sides equal time allocation to put their submissions.

 

[Vixen]

Fair enough. But this justice is an example of the morons who said no to Hellman.

So structural engineers who opined on 911 are the same "morons" who said no to Hellman?

It shows a paucity of coherent logic to demand instant patriotism to the USA, when Imposimato is not even American, and is thus free of the charge of disloyalty and can voice his opinion about 911 freely, given he has a deep understanding of how serious organised crime and intelligence agencies work.

In addition, the fact he was born 1939 IIRC, does not automatically render him a "senile old nutjob".

Your arguments all seem to be based on knee-jerk irrational prejudice. I guess that enables you to ignore all the clear evidence of the kids' presence at the crime, by dismissing it as "planted by senile old nutjobs", fine. Hume did say reason should and ought to be driven by the emotions, but the more lucid among us expect something a bit more clear-headed than, "everyone was a moron except Hellmann, and Chieffi was a senile old nutjob".

 

[Vixen]

Imposimato is a 9/11 truther and therefore an idiot. Anyone who thinks the towers "imploded" is also an idiot. The fact that such people also believe Knox & Sollecito are guilty is, I'm sure, a coincidence.

I am not aware "truther" is an English word. Is this another one of the PIP stock vocabulary-of-an-11-year-old, which includes "haters" and "guilters"?

Well, us English have a term for Hellmann and no doubt the Italians, which is, we consider him a "*********** idiot".