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Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Grinder said:
That isn't exactly correct as it is more of a quick stop for a bite and drink certainly not just coffee and tea. We of course don't know what the original Italian said so they may have translated the word for bar (non-Italian meaning) correctly.

It is possible C&S saw them there before the testimony started and if legal in Italy it is unlikely they would have filed charges.

An ex parte meeting seems wrong to me regardless of time of day until after testimony is complete.
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Google is a wonderful tool isn't it? Ever been to Italy? Can you not get food and other drinks at a coffee shop? Typically they're tiny and Italians don't sit down for their coffee. They stand at the bar and have their espresso/cappuccino. They very well could have randomly encountered each other there.
 
Mike1711 said:
A witness is out of bounds during court breaks where the witness is giving testimony (whether being examined or cross examined). At such break the witness is barred from speaking about the case or meeting with those involved in the case.

Before and after such testimony the witness is under no such controls.

Only fools would dare breach this and were it to happen the repercussions would be extremely serious for those involved. In the absence of those repercussions it's pretty safe to assume that such breach did not occur.
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Really? So safe, PM Mignini was able to cite it in his particulars of complaint against Maori.
 
LondonJohn said:
Not sure what you're driving at here. E&W law forbids lawyers in a criminal case from talking about the case with a witness while that witness in in the midst of his/her time on the stand giving testimony and being examined. It's those bolded bits which are critically important.

And this is a sensible and appropriate rule. But it is a very long way away from the C&V situation. To start to make any sort of comparison, we would need to know:

a) Were either Conti or Vecchiotti actually in the midst of their time giving testimony in court when this alleged encounter took place outside of the courtroom?

b) Did this alleged encounter contain any discussion of the case?

Only if these two conditions were met would there be any shadow of a comparison. And again I'd point out that C&V were NOT partisan witnesses representing one side or another. This is very important, since the rule in E/W is primarily intended to prevent lawyers from "coaching" their own witnesses mid-examination (e.g. "You're giving bad answers about XYZ - answer them in this way instead") or to prevent them from badgering/intimidating witnesses from the "other side".
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If PM Mignini is able to cite this breach and there is a jurisdiction then clearly there is a law/disciplinary issue legitimate for him to cite.

You can't file a suit if there is no jurisdiction. He could hardly file a charge of, "C&V shared a sandwich with Maori" as there is nothing improper about it.
 
Vixen said:
Really? So safe, PM Mignini was able to cite it in his particulars of complaint against Maori.
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Mignini could have "cited in his particulars of complaint" that he didn't like the ties Maori wore.

The acid test is whether any court recognises the merits of any of Mignini's "particulars of complaint". Totally different matter. And since Mignini is in rather a large (and growing) hole right now, it's not at all surprising to see him lashing out.

Have you ever heard of someone called Sepp Blatter? Did much the same thing on his way down. Even bears a certain physical resemblance...... :D
 
Matthew Best said:
They didn't implode and anyone who thinks they did needs their head examined.
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FYI: The engineering infrastructure was such that one of the towers collapsed in on itself, as though dynamite had been applied to it, but actually it was a design fault of the building.

Please show the citation that proves "Chieffi is a 911 nutjob".
 
Vixen said:
If PM Mignini is able to cite this breach and there is a jurisdiction then clearly there is a law/disciplinary issue legitimate for him to cite.

You can't file a suit if there is no jurisdiction. He could hardly file a charge of, "C&V shared a sandwich with Maori" as there is nothing improper about it.
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Hahahahahaha! How hopelessly naive this suggestion is, and how trusting it is of Mignini's motives, tactics and overall state of mind. I think I know already how this one is going to pan out.........
 
Vixen said:
FYI: The engineering infrastructure was such that one of the towers collapsed in on itself, as though dynamite had been applied to it, but actually it was a design fault of the building.

Please show the citation that proves "Chieffi is a 911 nutjob".
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Wrong, but wrong thread for that sort of stuff. Back to Italy SC judge Chieffi and his improper and inappropriate (and highly political) pronouncements please.
 
acbytesla said:
I thought that was just the case against Amanda. I thought the Curt and Edda case was separate. Whatever.
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AIUI Curt and Edda were on a simple slander charge. As they are based in the USA and the defendant's parents, it was probably seen as not in the public interest to pursue it further at disproportionate cost to the Italian taxpayer.

Amanda's charge is much more serious.
 
Wattson said:
Google is a wonderful tool isn't it? Ever been to Italy? Can you not get food and other drinks at a coffee shop? Typically they're tiny and Italians don't sit down for their coffee. They stand at the bar and have their espresso/cappuccino. They very well could have randomly encountered each other there.
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Yes I've been to Italy numerous times. Can you tell us the word for bar in Italian that describes what we call a bar? Do you know what the original said?

It is also possible they met at lunch sat in a cafe/bar ate a bite and discussed the case.

Somehow we found plenty of places to sit and have coffee as well as small bites.

Perhaps you should use Google images and see bars in Perugia. Maybe things have changed since you and your partner Mr. Holmes solved crimes there.
 
Vixen said:
If PM Mignini is able to cite this breach and there is a jurisdiction then clearly there is a law/disciplinary issue legitimate for him to cite.

You can't file a suit if there is no jurisdiction. He could hardly file a charge of, "C&V shared a sandwich with Maori" as there is nothing improper about it.
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If there was a transgression Mignini should have/would have notified the Judge immediately. Well that's if Mignini was competent.

Did he? No. Another proof of incompetency rears its ugly head against Mignini.

One wonders if he got anything right in this trial.

Incompetent, lying, manipulative person. But other than that he has great potential in fighting for crime.
 
LondonJohn said:
Mignini could have "cited in his particulars of complaint" that he didn't like the ties Maori wore.

The acid test is whether any court recognises the merits of any of Mignini's "particulars of complaint". Totally different matter. And since Mignini is in rather a large (and growing) hole right now, it's not at all surprising to see him lashing out.

Have you ever heard of someone called Sepp Blatter? Did much the same thing on his way down. Even bears a certain physical resemblance...... :D
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I cannot see any similarity between the negligent - at best - Sepp Blatter and the successful PM Mignini. You do know Maori is accused of improperly giving a press interview piling on libel upon libel on the investigators and lo and behold, this is the main header of Bruno-Marasca's reasons for acquittal, the other being press attention, which again Maori piled false allegation upon false allegation that the press helped "railroad Foxy Knoxy", one of the biggest hoaxes of the century.

The prosecution was refused a hearing by Bruno-Marasca, yet Avv Bongiorno and Velladova were allowed days of Maori-style calumnies.
 
LondonJohn said:
Wrong, but wrong thread for that sort of stuff. Back to Italy SC judge Chieffi and his improper and inappropriate (and highly political) pronouncements please.
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acbytesla cast a slur on Chieffi's powers of judgement by calling him a 911 anti-American conspiracist.

It is perfectly legitimate for me to demand a citation which supports his 'poor judgement' claim.
 
Vixen said:
I cannot see any similarity between the negligent - at best - Sepp Blatter and the successful PM Mignini. You do know Maori is accused of improperly giving a press interview piling on libel upon libel on the investigators and lo and behold, this is the main header of Bruno-Marasca's reasons for acquittal, the other being press attention, which again Maori piled false allegation upon false allegation that the press helped "railroad Foxy Knoxy", one of the biggest hoaxes of the century.
The prosecution was refused a hearing by Bruno-Marasca, yet Avv Bongiorno and Velladova were allowed days of Maori-style calumnies.
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These are hilarious and rather desperate hyperboles. Great fun for a Friday night :D
 
Vixen said:
acbytesla cast a slur on Chieffi's powers of judgement by calling him a 911 anti-American conspiracist.

It is perfectly legitimate for me to demand a citation which supports his 'poor judgement' claim.
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*sigh* I was closing down your own (ludicrous and entirely scientifically illiterate) pronouncements on 9/11 for being on the wrong thread. I have no problem with you asking for cites on Chieffi. I have a problem with you starting to discuss (albeit in ridiculous terms) the 9/11 matter itself. See?
 
Vixen said:
Citation, please.
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I'll supply them when you do.
Vixen said:
[Many people had question marks about the way the tower blocks imploded, yet they were still perfectly competent at their day jobs.
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Many people are morons. Ever see what happens to any concrete block when the compression capacity is exceeded? Apparently not.
 
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