80 Years of Subtle Sexism

[pharphis]

For an opposing view of the video mentioned in the OP, Karen Straughan, Alison Tieman, and YouTuber TL;DR (a.k.a. Teal Deer) do an extensive rebuttal video that can be found here.

(I wonder how many of those who are favourably disposed to the video in the OP will actually view a very lengthy response to it, and then give the contents of that rebuttal serious consideration rather than just summarily dismissing them.)

I've listened to a few (2-3?) of their hangout-things and I think my biggest complaint is Alison's hyperbole. I don't think she's used the word "oppressed" to describe men but it appears at times that she is implying they are before listing a bunch of MRA talking points. I might listen to this one just to see how tl;dr meshes with them.

 

[Magrat]

"Vomiting your emotions out all over the place..." that's an excellent line, and quite apt.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Said to me a long time ago: "You don't wear your nurse's cap? Don't you want your status?"

 

[hodgy]

To expand on your first point, there's the stereotype of the loser man, who can't get a date, sometimes with questionable hygiene, and living in his parents' basement. It's about the only type of person who can be mercilessly disparaged in media, and nobody will care. If a man isn't successful by society's standards, he's worthy of mockery. Those who do object to this, tend to be mocked in turn.

Although they're a bit old, movies like "The 40 Year Old Virgin" and "Failure to Launch" rely on this trope.

And so the poor chap might top himself - who cares...?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

For an opposing view of the video mentioned in the OP, Karen Straughan, Alison Tieman, and YouTuber TL;DR (a.k.a. Teal Deer) do an extensive rebuttal video that can be found here.

(I wonder how many of those who are favourably disposed to the video in the OP will actually view a very lengthy response to it, and then give the contents of that rebuttal serious consideration rather than just summarily dismissing them.)

Waaay too slow and boring to watch.

 

[Fudbucker]

80 Years of Subtle Sexism...

Isn't enough. The subtlety obviously isn't working. Women still make too much money and spend too much time shoed and non-pregnant*.

Time to be more overt.


*ETA: and voting.

 

[Magrat]

Waaay too slow and boring to watch.

Yea, I just watched the first 40 minutes, of which there was 15 minutes of substantive commentary.

Here's my thoughts: the people making that video did zero research into any ideas or situations not their own. For instance, "Don't wear that to school or you'll distract the boys". The commentary was about waving your tits in a Muslim's face. In reality, girls have been fighting to dress in clothes anyone would call appropriate that they've been sent home for. (one view) Theres a lot of views on this one issue that could have been addressed, and weren't.

Another example, "that's how he shows he likes you". Yes, sometimes teasing means a boy likes you. The commentary went into how boys are more restricted than females in that kind of behavior. But that doesn't answer the underlying issue behind rape culture and teaching young girls to accept physical abuse as affection. One, of myriad examples in our culture.

Yes, the commentary in this second (painfully dull) video may be true (or may not be, it was largely anecdotal) but that is not the only interpretation.

I will not watch the rest,because that one lady's voice almost made me dead. But thank you for sharing it!

 

[Edx]

I believe the female equivalent of Basement-Dwelling Loser Man is Crazy Cat Lady.

In that case women hardly ever receive this insult

 

[Magrat]

The female equivalent of the Basement Dwelling Loser is the Princess Diaries pre-makeover.

I grew up listening to my gram say "men don't make passed at girls who wear glasses" because myopia automatically implies poor hygiene, bad sinuses, and zero social skills.

 

[Edx]

Whining about women's exclusive awful burden of having to hear things that are, in fact, told to men as well, is putting yourself in an inferior position: declaring yourself too emotionally frail to handle minor routine imperfections in life that the rest of us take in stride and too fixated on feeling sorry for yourself about it to even notice the fact that the claim of any difference between you and everybody else on this is simply false.

I've never known why feminism has turned into such a font of useless false whinery bent on putting women down like this, but that's what we keep getting.

+1. We have an ideology that thinks the only way to empower women is to convince them that they lack power, and tell them that men are strong, capable and powerful. It all sounds rather a lot like different sides of the same coin of traditional gender roles to me

When you find your sense of power in the idea that you're powerless you'll fight against all reason to maintain that perception. If they believe they aren't being held back because of their gender then they have to face a reality of being responsible for their own life. Being a powerless victim feels like a kind of power when it gives you an excuse to blame all your problems on. It's not just men, it's white men, after that it's white women, it's straight people. The only depths they won't sink to depends on how powerless they'll feel if they can't blame someone else for something negative in their life

 

[psionl0]

80 Years of Things People say to Women and Not to Men

Thoughts?

Is there a transcript? I couldn't understand what they were saying in that video. Why do women have to talk so fast?

 

[cullennz]

Test

 

[Stout]

Women certainly can be sexist against other women. For example, women who support sexist positions against other women in support of "traditional values", typically as part of an evangelical agenda. They genuinely believe the most profitable role for every woman is under the control of a man, because women are inferior. Candace Cameron Bure is a big proponent of this stance. Many of the women who support sharia would probably also qualify.

I'm not sure if transgendered women receive the same treatment as women who were born female because I don't actually know any transgendered women. So I'll have to leave that one an open question.

Well, if you want to go with the old school definition of sexism, then I suppose we could entertain the idea that all traditional gender roles are sexist. It also puts misandry as being a real thing that actually exists and is as harmful to men as misogyny is to women, on the table. I can work with that.

The question I'd like some sort of answer to though is how much/many of these traditional gender roles are/were created by women themselves rather than women always being victims of "the patriarchy" ?

The Muscato link was posted to demonstrate just who we're being expected to consider as a woman under "intersectionality". Dave/Danielle looks just like that picture in the link and is someone who in the near future expects to be using the stall next to you in the women's room.

 

[casebro]

The female equivalent of the Basement Dwelling Loser is the Princess Diaries pre-makeover.

[qimg]https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mea699c727895e14497b0c80b849bee66H0&pid=15.1[/qimg]

Glasses and all, she could share my basement any time. But oh, what are her measurements?

But that was a bad example, that actress's beauty shows through. Amy Ferrer/Fowler would have been better. http://assets.wornon.tv/uploads/2013/02/amy-farrah-fowlers-blue-cable-knit-cardigan.jpg

 

[fuelair]

Honey I shared a link, I didn't ask you to change my tire. Are you on the rag?

 

[fuelair]

How unwomanly of them! Women aren't allowed to "doo-doo". That's perverse

Sorry, but I think you have missed the internet. There are films and pictures!!!

Note, the US seems to have the greatest number of things that involve bodies, physiology and and taboos, thus it has the greatest number of "pornographic" subjects in one (very large) place...........The one noted is mostly Japan, Germany (think Cartman's mom and German ********* films) and US.




Note to mods: I self censored only because I do not spell German well and do not want to breach rules otherwise.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I simply pointed out that your analogy failed to some degree.

All analogies fail to some degree. So why the need to point out the (minor and irrelevant) 'flaw' in this one?

Yes, by some metrics the difference between men and women is greater than between whites and blacks. By others, perhaps less so or even the opposite. But the fact remains that you used this difference to justify sexism.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

 

[Magrat]

Well, if you want to go with the old school definition of sexism, then I suppose we could entertain the idea that all traditional gender roles are sexist. It also puts misandry as being a real thing that actually exists and is as harmful to men as misogyny is to women, on the table. I can work with that.

The question I'd like some sort of answer to though is how much/many of these traditional gender roles are/were created by women themselves rather than women always being victims of "the patriarchy" ?

The Muscato link was posted to demonstrate just who we're being expected to consider as a woman under "intersectionality". Dave/Danielle looks just like that picture in the link and is someone who in the near future expects to be using the stall next to you in the women's room.

That's an excellent question that I don't think we (Americans, people in general) got answer to just yet. I have problems with a man dressed as a women being in the same public restroom as my daughter, because it seems a pretty obvious step for a predator to disguise himself as a transgendered person. But at the same time it's not safe for a transgendered person to be in the "right" bathroom either.

And that goes even beyond sexuality and gender: transracial, transage, transspecies...I guess my question is when and how we draw a line and say "this is a mental illness".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

test disregard this post

 

[Magrat]

Glasses and all, she could share my basement any time. But oh, what are her measurements?

But that was a bad example, that actress's beauty shows through. Amy Ferrer/Fowler would have been better. http://assets.wornon.tv/uploads/2013/02/amy-farrah-fowlers-blue-cable-knit-cardigan.jpg

Then you better take my number sweet heart because I am all about geeks in the basement. I even wear glasses!