Hillary Clinton is Done

[jhunter1163]

I think that Hillary will win in a walk against whoever survives the GOP circular firing squad, even more so if Trump goes loose cannon and runs third-party. I think Sanders is good for the process; he's definitely touched a populist nerve, and broached issues that the mainstream Democratic party has ignored, but unfortunately I doubt he'll even make the convention.

 

[Loss Leader]

I think that Hillary will win in a walk against whoever survives the GOP circular firing squad, even more so if Trump goes loose cannon and runs third-party.

I think even the most ardent Hillary Deranged would have to agree that a 3rd party run by Trump would guarantee the White House for the Democrats.

I think Sanders is good for the process; he's definitely touched a populist nerve, and broached issues that the mainstream Democratic party has ignored, but unfortunately I doubt he'll even make the convention.

Larry David has a better chance of speaking at the convention than Bernie Sanders. It will all be a very closely choreographed show to appeal to moderates. None of this wild west yelling at an empty chair nonsense the Republicans pulled.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Bob Dole just said if Trump won the primary he'd stay home rather than vote for Clinton. Let's hope Sanders' supporters are not that stupid.

 

[Loss Leader]

Bob Dole just said if Trump won the primary he'd stay home rather than vote for Clinton. Let's hope Sanders' supporters are not that stupid.

Bob Dole is 92. He should probably stay home and have his grandchildren help him with the absentee ballot.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Down ticket effort will only be hurt if there is a general loss of interest in any of the major Left groups/segments, which only happens when establishment candidates are run by the party that holds the white house with a president who has hovered around 50% (+14/-9). A populist campaign tends to energize and expand electorates, whereas establishment campaigns (especially when you are the incumbent party of the White House and the presidency isn't particularly popular) tend to depress and shrink electorates. Personally, I don't think Hillary can capture much more than a fraction of Obama's numbers, and the Clinton name alone will give the majority of the GOP and many independents a reason to turn out and "vote for Francis the Talking Mule against" a Clinton. Hillary, as the candidate, may well cost the Democratic party the currently likely shot to take back the Senate and make significant advances on the House, not to mention the White House (and possibly a couple seats on the Supreme Court),...but, that's my perspective, I'm sure there are others.

I think you're getting a little too invested in the campaign rhetoric. Particularly if you see Hillary Clinton as being as bad for the country as any of the leading GOP candidates. There's simply no comparison.

The GOP currently controls the House and Senate. Sanders isn't exactly inspiring a lot of voters in SC, FL, TX, etc.... He's tracking in the 20s. Where do you see this surge of "energized and expanded electorate" coming from? Hillary's basically told Iowa that she thinks their caucus system is stupid and they're still supporting her. He doesn't play well in the boonies.

 

[dudalb]

My opposition to Sanders is based on one fact..he cannot win in November,and I am scared to death of Donald Trump/

 

[bruto]

Bob Dole just said if Trump won the primary he'd stay home rather than vote for Clinton. Let's hope Sanders' supporters are not that stupid.

I know nowadays old Bob Dole seems almost a pettable pussycat compared to the ranting bozos who have replaced him, but as far as I am concerned, Dole is in large part responsible for the massive polarization and gridlock between the parties that we've seen since Clinton's election, when immediately Dole announced that his intention was to represent the 49 percent (or whatever it was) that voted against Clinton. As far as I can see, he kept his word, and did everything he could to sabotage the administration, so another stupid remark from Dole does not surprise me.

 

[Trakar]

My opposition to Sanders is based on one fact..he cannot win in November,and I am scared to death of Donald Trump/

Exactly what leads you to believe that Sanders cannot win in November?

 

[Trakar]

I think you're getting a little too invested in the campaign rhetoric. Particularly if you see Hillary Clinton as being as bad for the country as any of the leading GOP candidates. There's simply no comparison.

The primary reason I see her as being as bad for the country as any of the leading GOP candidates, is because I sincerely believe that if she is the democratic nominee, any one of three or four of the leading Republicans (most likely Rubio) will be our next president, the GOP will hold steady in the House and might even maintain the Senate. The only real possibility for Hillary to win in November, will be if Trump or Carson is the GOP candidate --- possibly Cruz or Graham would be enough to scare up some Democratic and Independent support, but if Hillary is the Dem candidate in 2016...

The only voting excitement we are going to see will be on the Right and the right-lite

The GOP currently controls the House and Senate. Sanders isn't exactly inspiring a lot of voters in SC, FL, TX, etc.... He's tracking in the 20s. Where do you see this surge of "energized and expanded electorate" coming from? Hillary's basically told Iowa that she thinks their caucus system is stupid and they're still supporting her. He doesn't play well in the boonies.

Sanders is from the Boonies. There is actually a lot of excitement in his campaign, but it doesn't get a lot of mainstream media coverage. This, and the fact that a large portion of his support comes from beyond the traditional "likely to vote in the Democratic primary" crowd which tends to be the focus of most of the polls.

 

[Foolmewunz]

The primary reason I see her as being as bad for the country as any of the leading GOP candidates, is because I sincerely believe that if she is the democratic nominee, any one of three or four of the leading Republicans (most likely Rubio) will be our next president, the GOP will hold steady in the House and might even maintain the Senate. The only real possibility for Hillary to win in November, will be if Trump or Carson is the GOP candidate --- possibly Cruz or Graham would be enough to scare up some Democratic and Independent support, but if Hillary is the Dem candidate in 2016...

The only voting excitement we are going to see will be on the Right and the right-lite



Sanders is from the Boonies. There is actually a lot of excitement in his campaign, but it doesn't get a lot of mainstream media coverage. This, and the fact that a large portion of his support comes from beyond the traditional "likely to vote in the Democratic primary" crowd which tends to be the focus of most of the polls.

Sanders is from the boonies? For certain definitions of "boonies", I take it. Burlington is a college town; they're quite distinct from agrarian/rural communities. Not to mention that he's from Brooklyn, New York City (population 8.5 million).

You do realize what this mantra sound like, don't you? It's the Ronulan battle cry. "Wait'll the hidden support comes out. We'll carry nine primaries and the convention!"

 

[Trakar]

Bob Dole just said if Trump won the primary he'd stay home rather than vote for Clinton. Let's hope Sanders' supporters are not that stupid.

Talk like this is sure to make them want to support her if she is the Democratic candidate.

 

[bruto]

Sanders is from the boonies? For certain definitions of "boonies", I take it. Burlington is a college town; they're quite distinct from agrarian/rural communities. Not to mention that he's from Brooklyn, New York City (population 8.5 million).

You do realize what this mantra sound like, don't you? It's the Ronulan battle cry. "Wait'll the hidden support comes out. We'll carry nine primaries and the convention!"

Yes, Bernie is from the biggest "city" in Vermont, with a population of slightly over 42 thousand. Now I like that, but one must admit it's not exactly enormous.

Some years ago, I visited some relatives in Houston for a wedding. The newlywed couple were buying a house in the suburb of Kingwood. We lost them on the highway, and looked for Kingwood on the Houston map I had. I could not find it. This was over 20 years ago, and the population of Kingwood at that time was "only" about 56 thousand. It was a tiny little dot on the map. When I got home I sent them a scan of my town's page out of the Vermont Atlas. My house is on it.

Boony power. Let's send Bernie to the big city.

 

[Loss Leader]

Bob Dole just said if Trump won the primary he'd stay home rather than vote for Clinton.

That's what I'm hoping for. Staying home is almost as good as voting for Clinton.

Imagine we have 100 voters, 50 are for Clinton and 50 are for the Republican. If Clinton converts just one of those people, she wins with 51% of the vote.

Now imagine instead that she (or the Republican nominee) convinces that person to stay home. She wins 50-49 or 50/99 = 50.5% of the vote. Very close to the same thing.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Yes, Bernie is from the biggest "city" in Vermont, with a population of slightly over 42 thousand. Now I like that, but one must admit it's not exactly enormous.

Some years ago, I visited some relatives in Houston for a wedding. The newlywed couple were buying a house in the suburb of Kingwood. We lost them on the highway, and looked for Kingwood on the Houston map I had. I could not find it. This was over 20 years ago, and the population of Kingwood at that time was "only" about 56 thousand. It was a tiny little dot on the map. When I got home I sent them a scan of my town's page out of the Vermont Atlas. My house is on it.

Boony power. Let's send Bernie to the big city.

Grew up in Brooklyn, which was his home base until he was about 28 years old. University of Chicago. He's been half-a-year in Vermont and the other half in The Beltway since '91.

Bernie's "of the big city" already. Let's not video him in a straw hat and overalls with a piece of straw dangling from his mouth. The folks in Iowa might not buy into that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Talk like this is sure to make them want to support her if she is the Democratic candidate.

Choosing between voting for Trump and letting the Democratic candidate win without your help is a reasonable decision for a Republican.

Claiming the difference between Trump and Clinton is so small it wouldn't matter which one won should they both win their primaries is mind-bogglingly ignorant. But fortunately I don't believe most Sanders' supporters are that foolish.

 

[bruto]

Grew up in Brooklyn, which was his home base until he was about 28 years old. University of Chicago. He's been half-a-year in Vermont and the other half in The Beltway since '91.

Bernie's "of the big city" already. Let's not video him in a straw hat and overalls with a piece of straw dangling from his mouth. The folks in Iowa might not buy into that.

Of course I know that really, when I'm not just being an ornery Vermonter, and it's actually one of the things many of my more rural neighbors have held against old Boinie, but they have tended to soften because hate him as they feel they ought to, he is doing a pretty good job. So I suspect some are secretly voting for him. I hope that remains true, as I suspect many people who would be ashamed to be heard voicing Trump's tripe would secretly vote for him as well.

In the straw hat realm, he has at least made an effort to understand the constituency he represents, which is part of why he succeeds despite his conspicuously non-Vermonty persona.

He certainly does better than another out of state contender, Jack McMullen, who hoped to unseat Senator Leahy as a Republican candidate. A famous and rather humorous farmer named Fred Tuttle, who had been the star of a movie in which he fictionally ran for representative, contested the primary, and won after a debate in which Mr. McMullen was found not to know how many teats there are on a cow. Tuttle, of course, really wanted Leahy to win, but he got quite a few votes anyway.

 

[Trakar]

Sanders is from the boonies? For certain definitions of "boonies", I take it. Burlington is a college town; they're quite distinct from agrarian/rural communities. Not to mention that he's from Brooklyn, New York City (population 8.5 million).

You are correct,...probably best not to mention Brooklyn, the last time he lived in Brooklyn was when he was a teenager back in the '50s. He moved to Vermont back in '68 almost a half century ago. Vermont is a rural state, with a few small to midsize metropolitan areas.

Vermont is a state in the northeastern U.S. known for its natural landscape, which is 75% forest. It's also known for being home to over 100 19th-century covered bridges, and as a major producer of maple syrup. Thousands of acres of alpine terrain make it a popular New England winter destination for skiers and snowboarders.

Population: 626,562 (2014)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont

You do realize what this mantra sound like, don't you? It's the Ronulan battle cry. "Wait'll the hidden support comes out. We'll carry nine primaries and the convention!"

Since that is the analogy you're shooting for, I'm sure it does,...to you, and many here-bouts. If it turns out that way, mores the pity for the nation. But regardless of what happens to Senator Sanders, it won't make Hillary an acceptable, progressive candidate. Anything less than that is a loss for everyone, it doesn't matter that she's less corporatist or less conservative than candidates on the other side, it is still a loss for all.

If Sanders had never run as a Democratic candidate, I still would not have been a Clinton supporter this time around, and I won't become one if Sanders loses in the primaries. I'm very unlikely to support a GOP candidate, but I can't conceive of a situation where I would support Hillary. Nor, however, will I sit at home.

 

[Foolmewunz]

You are correct,...probably best not to mention Brooklyn, the last time he lived in Brooklyn was when he was a teenager back in the '50s. He moved to Vermont back in '68 almost a half century ago. Vermont is a rural state, with a few small to midsize metropolitan areas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont



Since that is the analogy you're shooting for, I'm sure it does,...to you, and many here-bouts. If it turns out that way, mores the pity for the nation. But regardless of what happens to Senator Sanders, it won't make Hillary an acceptable, progressive candidate. Anything less than that is a loss for everyone, it doesn't matter that she's less corporatist or less conservative than candidates on the other side, it is still a loss for all.

If Sanders had never run as a Democratic candidate, I still would not have been a Clinton supporter this time around, and I won't become one if Sanders loses in the primaries. I'm very unlikely to support a GOP candidate, but I can't conceive of a situation where I would support Hillary. Nor, however, will I sit at home.

I find your stance puzzling to say the least. How could someone go from progressive/near-socialist, to sitting idle while the paleos take control of the country? Forget the Bernie Wins Nomination scenario. The scenario I'm talking about is Hillary Wins Nomination. Your distaste for Hillary is so strong that you'd sit by as the country went for Trump, Carson or Cruz? As my wise old mama said about an election from half-a-century ago, "If you have the binary choice between a crook and an SOB, you vote for the crook."

 

[Dog Town]

But fortunately I don't believe most Sanders' supporters are that foolish.

Lucky that Sanders supporters, know better than this pathetic "argument"!

HRC deranged supporters will be responsible with the pathetic choices THEY make!

SANDERS IS OUR ONLY HOPE!

WAKE UP!

 

[catsmate]

She doesn't have to. All she has to do is make them so depressed about their chances of winning that they refuse to vote altogether. Her chance of doing that may be very high depending on the Republican candidate.

Trump should manage that.