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Religious advertising - is it deceptive?

If the Lord in the Lord's Prayer is the character called Jesus Christ then the Lord's Prayer is blatant deception.

Jesus Christ in the NT was the product of a Ghost and God Creator/the Logos and could NOT could not have actually prayed or asked anyone at anytime to pray.


The so-called Lord's prayer is found in gMatthew.

If the Lord is Jesus Christ then the Lord was born AFTER his mother was found withchild of a Ghost in the obvious non-historical monstrous fables called gospels.

If Jesus Christ was born of a Ghost in gMatthew who is "OUR FATHER" in the Lord's Prayer???

God is a Ghost!!!!


John 4:24 ----God is a Spirit....
The Lord's prayer is established deception when it is claimed the Lord is Jesus Christ [the product of a Ghost].

A reading from the Anti-Theist Playbook according to St. DeJudge.... AAAAAAA-MMMMENNNNN!!!!!!

We already have a thread on the historicity of Jesus, where the anti-theistic forces are getting routed. Repeating the same old tired cliches about "monstrous gospels" :rolleyes: rather than addressing your blatant errors in this thread is simply silly.

In fact, some may call it..... DECEPTION.
 
The Lord's prayer is the prayer Jesus himself made up and taught his disciples. It's his prayer in that sense, not in the sense that he is the Lord being prayed to.

The part I love is just before the prayer: "7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
 
Can you explain how any of the above is relevant to whether or not religious advertising is deceptive?

I was responding to him about the claims made in the prayer. I pointed out that it's not necessarily literal.
 
I'm thinking there may be better examples of religious advertising where the line is crossed.

Exactly. The mere mention of a topic in religion is not per se deception. Deception requires an asymmetry of knowledge. References or allusions to something aren't themselves deception, even if things being referred to have elsewhere and at other times engaged in deception. A mere mention, however, seems to guarantee quite a lot of spewage from people who obviously feel strongly about the subject but drown out reason with the sound of axe-grinding. Even the spew is starting to recognize the difference -- "artifacts of deception," etc. (emphasis added).

I gave an example early in the thread of what I considered deceptive advertising: the anti-gay ads taken out in support of California's now-overturned Proposition 8. And I think it's pertinent because ads were funded in large part by Mormons and Catholics. They were deceptive on at least two levels. First and most obvious, they portrayed a distorted and unflattering picture of homosexuals and same-sex couples and suggested there were facts or science to support it. That's an asymmetry of knowledge and intent to mislead. Second, the advertisers concealed their identity, likely believing that the message would have more force if it were not directly connected to religion. There was considerable objection to having donors made public, when it seemed the courts would order it. Again, the asymmetry of knowledge and the intent to mislead. And the thing obtained by means of that advertising was the benefit of legislation favorable to the lifestyles of the advertisers, whether it resulted directly in profit or not.

In contrast "be good to your family" is not a deceptive message even if the people who publish it have at other times and places acted deceptively.
 
<snip .... some poppycock>

In fact, some may call it..... DECEPTION.


Nooo.... the utter deception is the fetid red herring you keep wafting all over this thread about an utterly irrelevant difference whether the Lord in the insult to human dignity called the begging session of the Lord, is the ill begotten son of a ghostly 1/3rd of the Jewish deadbeat daddy in outer space, or the abusive sky daddy himself.

This thread is about whether religious advertising is deceptive or not.

It is an out and out lie to advertise to people in the 21st century about begging and groveling to some imaginary deadbeat abusive daddy in outer space for their daily bread.

It is even a bigger lie to tell people that this scrounging for their daily bread ought to be with the words written in a collection of fairy tales and fables and attributed to a hobo who went around with 12 merry men panhandling for food himself while blathering psychotic blasphemous delusions about being the ill begotten son of the sky daddy of the Jews come to herald the nigh end of the world.

It is an utter insult to sanity and human dignity to tell us that this supplication and mooching for daily bread is the Lord's Solicitation when according to the fables themselves the words were spoken by a delusional bumming vagrant panhandler who got hung on a tree for his crazed out hooliganism and cursing the Jews to death claiming that they are as worthless as fruitless fig trees that ought to be chopped down.

So yes the Pathetic Hobo's Begging Session narrated in the collection of mythical fairy tales called the Buybull is a deception all round and can only be viewed as a Lord's Prayer by infantile imbeciles.
 
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It is an out and out lie to advertise to people in the 21st century about begging and groveling to some imaginary deadbeat abusive daddy in outer space for their daily bread.

Asked and answered. People in the 21st century know where bread actually comes from, whether intended literally or figuratively in the text of the ad. There is no asymmetry of knowledge. I can put up a billboard that says the sky is green. That statement is false, but it's not deceptive because I'm not telling people something they wouldn't be expected to know but for my ad.
 
blasphemous

So then we agree that the "lord" in "Lord's prayer" is Jesus then? Good!

Sky Daddy! Drink!... well it is too early to drink... but I am going to keep track.

By the way, what exactly is the point of all that ranting about "hobo" and "panhandler" and the like? I cannot fathom who if anyone you are trying to impress let alone convince. I mean it is pretty funny and all in an antic comic type of way, but all in all it is just a string of barely coherent insults.

Oh well, as Jesus Christ prophesied:

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Bless us all, everyone!
 
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...., seems to guarantee quite a lot of spewage from people who obviously feel strongly about the subject but drown out reason with the sound of axe-grinding. Even the spew is starting to recognize the difference -- "artifacts of deception," etc. (emphasis added).


Personal insults.... straw manning... ad hominems.

My my ... that is a lot of sophistry and illogical fallacies.... I wonder why???

Hmmm.... I wonder why??? What could it be????


Asked and answered. People in the 21st century know where bread actually comes from, whether intended literally or figuratively in the text of the ad. There is no asymmetry of knowledge. I can put up a billboard that says the sky is green. That statement is false, but it's not deceptive because I'm not telling people something they wouldn't be expected to know but for my ad.


Ahhhh.... now I see why!!!!
 
It seems to me that if you want to paint an ad as deceptive, the claims within it would have to falsifiable to be proven so. That lack of falsifiability is a definition of faith that fails it as science and, IMO, as an allowable standard in politics, but it cuts both ways- it can't be proven wrong for advertising itself any more than it can be proven right.

The difference between a theist and an atheist is that one has a faith in a deity (and, I guess, the associated perks) and the other simply lacks that faith. But it seems that Leumas and dejudge hold to a version of atheism that's as strident a faith as the one they (constantly) argue against- anti-theism rather than just atheism. I'm an atheist myself, and I've almost never agreed with anything said here by (for instance) 16.5; but I tell you that I would fight as hard for his right to believe what I can't as I would for his right to say what I don't agree with.
 
The lord's prayer is part (the end) of the ritual of a 12 step's meeting. It clearly is a deceptive advertisement for their god driven cult-like group. If anyone really thinks AA or any of the 12 steps groups aren't religious then you have been deceived or never took the time to really look at it.
 
So then we agree that the "lord" in "Lord's prayer" is Jesus then? ...


The fictional protagonist in a collection of fables who was depicted as a delusional hobo going around begging for food and eating the scraps without washing his hands and telling people that what goes in their mouths cannot harm them .... was no damned Lord.... but a dirty beggar.

The vile vagabond described in the fables called the Buybull as having gone around execrating Jews and telling them that they were the sons of the devil because they laughed at his delusional claims of being the ill begotten son of the Jewish deadbeat sky daddy .... was no bloody Lord.... but a demented fool.

The pathetic delusional mountebank who purportedly went around cursing the Jews and demanding they be chopped down like fruitless fig trees because they would not fall for his lies that he was going to sit on a throne in outer space on the right hand side of the sadistic Jewish deadbeat daddy in the sky when he finally flew there on a cloud after the nigh end of the world came about... was no bleeding Lord.... but a lunatic thug.

So even the title of the groveling session is a deception let alone the content.
 
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The fictional protagonist in a collection of fables who was depicted as a delusional hobo going around begging for food and eating the scraps without washing his hands and telling people that what goes in their mouths cannot harm them .... was no damned Lord.... but a dirty beggar.

The vile vagabond described in the fables called the Buybull as having gone around execrating Jews and telling them that they were the sons of the devil because they laughed at his delusional claims of being the ill begotten son of the Jewish deadbeat sky daddy .... was no bloody Lord.... but a demented fool.

The pathetic delusional fool who purportedly went around and cursing the Jews and demanding they be chopped down like fruitless fig trees because they would not fall for his lies that he was gong to sit on a throne in outer space on the right hand side of the sadistic Jewish deadbeat daddy in outer space when he finally flew there on a cloud after the nigh end of the world came about... was no bleeding Lord.... but a lunatic thug.

So even the title of the groveling session is a deception let alone the content.

insults.... straw manning... ad hominems.

My my ... that is a lot of sophistry and illogical fallacies.... I wonder why???

Hmmm.... I wonder why??? What could it be????

If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

Ahhhh.... now I see why!!!!
 
Asked and answered. Deception is possible only when there is an asymmetry of knowledge. You have not shown how the listener of this text would have an asymmetric knowledge of the facts than the reader of it.

If a scientologist tells you the sky is blue, then it is a filthy lie from the pits of hell!
 
....But it seems that Leumas and dejudge hold to a version of atheism that's as strident a faith as the one they (constantly) argue against- anti-theism rather than just atheism. I'm an atheist myself, and I've almost never agreed with anything said here by (for instance) 16.5; but I tell you that I would fight as hard for his right to believe what I can't as I would for his right to say what I don't agree with.


And while you are doing that they are fighting as damned hard as they can to force you to believe what you cannot and to make you agree with what you do not .... by any usurpation of the laws and other means they can.

It is not "strident atheists" who are trying to shove their world view down everyone's throat and to enforce it upon everyone by making it the laws of the land.

It is not "strident atheists" who are

Please read some history to find out how concerned theists have been about your right to not believe.

While you are busy fighting against "strident atheists", this stuff is going on:

Vision America's Rick Scarborough was a guest on Gordon Klingenschmitt's "Pray In Jesus Name" program recently, where he explained that God is blessing the state of Texas because "Christians have infiltrated" and taken over the state GOP. Scarborough was discussing his efforts to mobilize right-wing pastors to get involved in politics across the nation and noting that he has had a great deal of success in Texas; so much so that if one now attends an annual Republican Party convention in Texas, it feels as if one is attending a revival meeting.​

It is not "strident atheists" who are trying to enforce their world view wherever they can.

It is not "strident atheists" who are insidiously trying to dominate the "seven mountains of power" and take over the country.

While you are fighting so hard on the side of theists fending off those damned "strident atheists", theists are pressing on quietly with their strategic plans.

From Here
The George Grant quote cited below comes from a book he published in 1987 with Dominion Press, entitled The Changing of the Guard. Yes, they have been aiming for this for a very long time. And for a very long time they have worked under the cover of our ignorance. Who could have predicted a few nut cases could ever acquire such influence in our politics and our military? (No apologies to Condoleeza Rice).
"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.

It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.

World conquest. That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.

Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations."​
 
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Say... not bad for a "pathetic delusional mountebank hobo."


I am very glad that you now agree that Jesus was a pathetic delusional mountebank hobo.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I am so very glad that you can now see Jesus the fictional protagonist in the fairy tales called the Buybull for what he really was... A DECEPTION.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Asked and answered. People in the 21st century know where bread actually comes from, whether intended literally or figuratively in the text of the ad. There is no asymmetry of knowledge. I can put up a billboard that says the sky is green. That statement is false, but it's not deceptive because I'm not telling people something they wouldn't be expected to know but for my ad.

Asked and answered. Deception is possible only when there is an asymmetry of knowledge. You have not shown how the listener of this text would have an asymmetric knowledge of the facts than the reader of it.


It was not asked nor is your answer even coherent.

I suggest you apply the rules of semantics and syntax of the English language as well as the principles of logic and reality and reason and rationality to the above claptrap... I think once you do that you will see how DECEPTIVE the statements are.
 
It was not asked nor is your answer even coherent.

"Asked and answered" is a colloquialism from law that means "We've covered this already." When I say this it means I think you're trying to reset the debate.

You may not understand it or want to address it, but I assure you it is coherent. If I tell you the sky is green, I have made a false statement. But have I deceived you? No, because you are quite able to discern for yourself the actual color of the sky. This is where your "daily bread" standard fails. How food is obtained is in the category of facts reasonably within the ken of the average person. When someone says bread can be obtained from a magical source, the average person has knowledge that allows him to judge the credibility of that statement. He does not rely on the speaker to inform him generally or specifically about how to obtain food. He knows this himself.

This asymmetry of knowledge is a critical component of deception. Merely making a false statement doesn't deceive. The listener having to rely on it as a statement of credible fact is what makes something deceptive. If you had been in an interior room for many hours, say, and asked me what color the sky was, you'd have no way of verifying the facts yourself but you'd still doubt me because the sky is never green. The statement is patently non-credible on its face. If you were similarly shut in and asked, and I said the sky was black when it was really blue, then I'd be deceiving you. The statement is an allegation of fact, credible on its face, outside your present ability to verify, and knowingly false.

This is why I pointed out that ads funded chiefly by Mormons and Catholics should be considered deceptive. They're deceptive not because they're promoted by religious people. They're deceptive because they make allegations of fact, such as a certain percentage of homosexuals having infectious diseases, or being deemed unfit parents. These are allegations of fact -- that is, things that can be determined by observation or scientific inquiry to be either true or false and not a matter of faith or opinion. They are not within the ken of the normal person; people don't know for a fact, off the top of their heads, what epidemiology applies to homosexuals. Hence they are likely to rely in good faith upon the allegation. And finally the intent of the ad was to compel people to vote for legislation that would have disadvantaged homosexuals.

Intent is also a key distinction between deception and merely stating something that is false. But we haven't yet discussed that much.

I suggest you apply the rules of semantics and syntax of the English language as well as the principles of logic and reality and reason and rationality to the above claptrap.

I have. You dismiss it as sophistry. When I press you to address it, you respond with irrelevant mockery and invective.

I think once you do that you will see how DECEPTIVE the statements are.

Begging the question.
 

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