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Turkish support for ISIS

As Dwarfutoglu himself recently said:
Turkish Prime Minister said:
There is a 360-degree, not 180-degree, difference between the Islam we defend and what Daesh has on its mind.

;)

Haha, almost sounds like an appeal to ISIS.

He is basically saying that if ISIS is worried that their goals are diametrically opposite from each other, he would like to assure them that they are in exactly the same place.
 
Haha, almost sounds like an appeal to ISIS.

He is basically saying that if ISIS is worried that their goals are diametrically opposite from each other, he would like to assure them that they are in exactly the same place.
HB, thanks for the links.
 
These wily Turks pretended to join a coalition aginst Isis when all they are really interested in is supporting Isis, and to topple Assad, and in attacking the wild Kurds. Cameron should get on the phone and blow them up about that.

The Turks were trying to build a huge shopping centre in one of the parks in central Istanbul, or Ankara, a couple of years ago. That caused riots. It shows that they are not cultivated as a people.

I had my doubts about the Soviet Administrations years ago, with their invasions into Eastern Europe, but I must say I sympathise with Russia over that recent downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkmen. It's against the Geneva Convention to shoot prisoners of war for a start.

I am still not sure whether the wily Turks are secretly more interested in making Jerusalem the new capital of the Islamic state run by Isis, or to ultimately have a war with Iran backed by America and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Israel.

I don't like the way the Murdoch journalists on Sky TV, and aljazeera in Qatar are pro-Turkey in this matter.
 
I had my doubts about the Soviet Administrations years ago, with their invasions into Eastern Europe, but I must say I sympathise with Russia over that recent downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkmen. It's against the Geneva Convention to shoot prisoners of war for a start.
Um, the Turks shot it down, the aircraft in question was an F-16, made in America. As to how the pilots were treated after they ejected, I cannot be neutral as I spent a career as a Navy pilot. I see the Russian aircrew as my brothers in arms, in terms of empathy. Oddly enough, I spent the first half of my career preparing to kill Russians and their allies. Glad it didn't come to that, all said and done.
 
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A BBC correspondent on the radio was talking about the OctoberJuly AnkaraKobane Bombings and the fairly strong circumstantial evidence of collusion of the so-called "Deep State"

A googling finds this article, but it doesn't list the reasoning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34505030
 
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Turkey certainly looked the other way early on and made little efforts to stop ISIS, probably because they never imagined it would come to the present situation, and the government is as close to fundamentalist as it could be without joining in.

And they are opposed to the dentist.

However I have a tongue in cheek suggestion for Turkey given that they are "allied" with their friends that the Russians are bombing (PKK and all). They should annex the bordering part of Syria using Russian logic as the excuse.
 
Turkey certainly looked the other way early on and made little efforts to stop ISIS, probably because they never imagined it would come to the present situation, and the government is as close to fundamentalist as it could be without joining in.

And they are opposed to the dentist.

However I have a tongue in cheek suggestion for Turkey given that they are "allied" with their friends that the Russians are bombing (PKK and all). They should annex the bordering part of Syria using Russian logic as the excuse.

Turkey tried to use ISIS as a controllable monster, and possibly still do.

Even despite the risks to their people.

The whole no fly zone or "safe zone" would basically turn into an excuse for Turkey to run a bigger mass killing campaign against the Kurds.

Thousands, or perhaps tens of thousands of people would be killed.
 
These wily Turks pretended to join a coalition aginst Isis when all they are really interested in is supporting Isis, and to topple Assad, and in attacking the wild Kurds. Cameron should get on the phone and blow them up about that.

The Turks were trying to build a huge shopping centre in one of the parks in central Istanbul, or Ankara, a couple of years ago. That caused riots. It shows that they are not cultivated as a people.

I had my doubts about the Soviet Administrations years ago, with their invasions into Eastern Europe, but I must say I sympathise with Russia over that recent downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkmen. It's against the Geneva Convention to shoot prisoners of war for a start.

I am still not sure whether the wily Turks are secretly more interested in making Jerusalem the new capital of the Islamic state run by Isis, or to ultimately have a war with Iran backed by America and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Israel.

I don't like the way the Murdoch journalists on Sky TV, and aljazeera in Qatar are pro-Turkey in this matter.

Lol. Love your take on Gezi Park.
 
Turkey tried to use ISIS as a controllable monster, and possibly still do.

Even despite the risks to their people.

The whole no fly zone or "safe zone" would basically turn into an excuse for Turkey to run a bigger mass killing campaign against the Kurds.

Thousands, or perhaps tens of thousands of people would be killed.

Silly reply.
No sane person can think they control ISIS now, or ever did.
Turkey cannot enforce a no fly zone and even if it happened after shooting down all Russians, they couldn't fly either.
Thousands are being killed now. Just what is your point?
 
These wily Turks pretended to join a coalition aginst Isis when all they are really interested in is supporting Isis, and to topple Assad, and in attacking the wild Kurds. Cameron should get on the phone and blow them up about that.

The Turks were trying to build a huge shopping centre in one of the parks in central Istanbul, or Ankara, a couple of years ago. That caused riots. It shows that they are not cultivated as a people.

I had my doubts about the Soviet Administrations years ago, with their invasions into Eastern Europe, but I must say I sympathise with Russia over that recent downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkmen. It's against the Geneva Convention to shoot prisoners of war for a start.

I am still not sure whether the wily Turks are secretly more interested in making Jerusalem the new capital of the Islamic state run by Isis, or to ultimately have a war with Iran backed by America and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Israel.

I don't like the way the Murdoch journalists on Sky TV, and aljazeera in Qatar are pro-Turkey in this matter.

Good grief, the analysis hurts.
 
There is nothing new about all this. Russia has been a Middle Eastern power for centuries.

In 1955 Dulles at the State Department in America tried to form a Baghdad Pact to act as a bulwark aginst Russia. Pakistan and Turkey and Iran and Iraq joined the Baghdad Pact, but most of the other Arab counties refused to join for reasons that were not fully understood, but were something to do with Arab rivalries, and conflict with Israel, and being anti-British and anti-American. Iraq was a backward state then with an inefficient civil service. Not much has changed since then. Turkey was concerned about Russian agent intrigues with the wild Kurds even then.

There is a bit about this from an old Penguin book in about 1956:

"In these manoeuvres the fate of Syria was of special interest; it has been the home of the fiercest and most unqualified Arab nationalism, even though the Syrian government has never distinguished itself, or been stable. The Baghdad allies lost the struggle for Syria even though Turkey went to the length of making hardly concealed military threats on the Syrian border".

Cameron has just said he intends to use 70000 Free Syrian Army 'moderate' opposition fighters to support his Air and land token air strikes in Syria. The Americans managed to find four or five to train and equip, and to give them coalition air support. It's want of judgment and lack of strategic ability. It looks to me as though Isis are usually able to shelter from bombing in underground tunnels anyway, or they have fled to Mosul. I don't know if the RAF is now going to be used to topple Assad, as Cameron previously intended. I have not been told.

In my opinion Britain, France and America and Turkey should stop supporting Al-Qaeda and Isis with 'train and equip' and think of some non-military means of solving the problem in order to further the interests of the people. It's unfair on all the people trying to get on rubber boats to Europe, which are now causing unmanageable problems for local authorities in Europe. Turkey should stop trying to recreate the old Ottoman Empire with its Isis allies.
 
Silly reply.
No sane person can think they control ISIS now, or ever did.
Turkey cannot enforce a no fly zone and even if it happened after shooting down all Russians, they couldn't fly either.
Thousands are being killed now. Just what is your point?

Three main groups have tried to use ISIS for their own goals. All three in my opinion have been badly burned for it.

1) Assad released a large amount of ISIS leaders and other radical Islamist leaders on the instructions that they were being released in order to attack the moderate opposition. And for awhile, that 'truce' lasted, with the radical Islamists massively increasing territory, and Assad gaining the narrative he wanted of fighting against extremists.

Rebels, former inmates, Western Intelligence, and jihadists all acknowledge an early effort by Assad to release Islamic extremists largely from the Sednaya prison in order to remove a large portion of the moderate opposition.

Syria's Assad accused of boosting al-Qaeda with secret oil deals

As the uprising against his rule began, Assad switched again, releasing al-Qaeda prisoners. It happened as part of an amnesty, said one Syrian activist who was released from Sednaya prison near Damascus at the same time.

“There was no explanation for the release of the jihadis,” the activist, called Mazen, said. “I saw some of them being paraded on Syrian state television, accused of being Jabhat al-Nusra and planting car bombs. This was impossible, as they had been in prison with me at the time the regime said the bombs were planted. He was using them to promote his argument that the revolution was made of extremists.”

Other activists and former Sednaya inmates corroborated his account, and analysts have identified a number of former prisoners now at the head of militant groups, including Jabhat al-Nusra, ISIS and a third group, Ahrar al-Sham, which fought alongside Jabhat al-Nusra but has now turned against ISIS.

One former inmate said he had been in prison with “Abu Ali” who is now the head of the ISIS Sharia court in the north-eastern al-Qaeda-run city of Raqqa. Another said he knew leaders in Raqqa and Aleppo who were prisoners in Sednaya until early 2012.

These men then spearheaded the gradual takeover of the revolution from secular activists, defected army officers and more moderate Islamist rebels.

...

Rebels both inside and outside ISIS also say they believe the regime targeted its attacks on non-militant groups, leaving ISIS alone. “We were confident that the regime would not bomb us,” an ISIS defector, who called himself Murad, said. “We always slept soundly in our bases.”


2) The second group that used ISIS is the disenfranchised Sunnis of Northern and Western Iraq.

Saddam's Ex-Officer: We've Played Key Role In Helping Militants

Mosul was overtaken by a very small number of ISIS members (estimated at about 800), and a much larger force of Sunni tribes who had been tired of mistreatment by the Shiite led government. Reporters at the time of Mosul's downfall reacted with bewilderment at how a force of 30,000 troops could fall to a force of 800. The truth is that none of the early rise of ISIS would have been possible if it were not for the much larger involvement of disenfranchised local Sunni tribes and former Baathists. Which largely wouldn't have happened if the former Iraqi government hadn't increased persecution so severely of the Sunnis, and ended the highly successful US started Awakening movement.

It did not take long however, before the new ISIS government became even worse than what the Sunni tribes had before.

Islamic State rounds up ex-Baathists to eliminate potential rivals in Iraq's Mosul


3) Turkey - just read earlier posts in the thread.


All three groups have severely been damaged by their support for ISIS.




As for the no fly zones and safe zones, Turkey has been pushing the idea mostly of a 'buffer "safe" zone.' Which would allow them more control of their new land, with more impunity for actions that they would take in that zone. This plan has been pushed for a number of years. The former FSA leader who was hosted in Turkey called for a safe zone in 2012 that would be free of YPG.

The no fly zone, which would be enforced by other countries in the air and border except for a significant amount of Turkish ground troops in the interior, has been estimated to cost about a billion dollars a month. This would basically allow Turkey to carry out a Kurdish exclusion zone in much of the now Kurdish areas in order to create room for refugees, and opposition fighters that Turkey supports (i.e. Turkmen dominated). However, Obama has previously rejected this plan because of the danger of escalation, and the potential of confrontation with Russian air forces. Given recent events that may make the plan less likely.

Which leaves the buffer zone that Turkey initially wanted. Despite the unaddressed problems with it that politicians have often glossed over. The main problem is that Turkey is unlikely to financially support large numbers of refugees unless other countries pay the bill for it.

A good analysis of the history of these plans can be found here:
The Origins of Turkey’s Buffer Zone in Syria


Hillary Clinton, and a number of other US Republican candidates have expressed approval of this idea as a way to stem the flow of refugee migrants without realizing the danger, cost, and implications of the plan.
 
I disagree with you. It's not bollocks. You don't understand what is going on:

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/22243

Laughably, you said that the Gezi Park protests are uncivilized hordes getting stroppy over a shopping centre. I was there and through the rise of the AKP and their dismantling of the Kemalist laicite structures, and Erdoagans transformations. Conservative Turks and I dsresay the President abhor the barbaric actions of ISIS. A new Ottoman state is an utter fantasy.
 
Even the British would not build a huge shopping mall in Hyde Park, or Richmond Park, in London, due to civilised planning laws.

Turkey has been supporting the Islamic state, and the Muslim Brotherhood, which want to rid the region of Christians and Shia Muslims, and other minorities, and which has even upset the corrupt clique in Egypt. Turkey only wants to kill the wild Kurds.

The so-called Islamic state is another phrase for the Ottoman Empire to me. They have Spain and Italy and Nigeria in their sights, and Israelis are expected to get on to rubber boats to Europe as well.

Cameron is planning on doing some token bombing in Syria, which I don't think is much help. According to one of Cameron's cabinet ministers, Cameron's strategy seems to be to support a transitional government without Assad which would then deal with Isis on the ground. It's too idealistic. My own opinion is that a transitional government would last about five minutes, as happened in Libya. Stop supporting Al-Qaeda.

The trouble is both Obama and Cameron are simpletons. They need to seize the situation like a man and take a firm line with the CIA, and with Goldman Sachs.

It's a bit like Neville Chamberlain said to his Foreign Secretary Eden once "Anthony, you have missed chance after chance, you simply can't go on like this".
 
The so-called Islamic state is another phrase for the Ottoman Empire to me.
Henri, the Islamic state is an Arab based movement, not a Turk based movement. Might want to review your regional understanding on that score. The Caliphate they uses as a reference point is circa 800-1200, not the Caliphate as run by the Turks from Istanbul.
 

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